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Old 2009-02-19, 13:08   Link #61
Cub-Sama
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Originally Posted by hakisak View Post
Not really...More experienced yes, but stronger no....
Don't want to go into a giant arguement cos I like one liners but: Experience adds to someones strength, ask any RPG where when you get enough exp you lvl up, which I suppose is the reason why Ichigo is able to cut Ulquiorra now. Ichigo was lvl blah blah blah and Grimmjow's defeat gave him a 20000 exp so he lvled up and so did his hollow.

One thing I will admit, Ichigo when he reaches full potential will probably be the strongest character but right now he is only theoretically the strongest character because he has potential.
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Old 2009-02-19, 13:31   Link #62
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No he is the strongest character, he just hasn't reached his fullest penitential because he's part blockhead, and untutored so he has no idea how and is just winging it! (Yay for run-on sentences!)

RPG? Omg you are killing me! No you didn't...
It's already been explained... why he can level up, and why he can and will beat Ulq. Do you need a refresher? It's driving me nuts because the FACTS keep being dismissed!!! Just because people prefer Ulquiorra over Ichigo. Ichigo has one
(That has two attacks) signature move, but you have to know he has more than one ability ...At least I hope you know that

Now every is all "Wonders Why's" (As my great grand momma would say..) When we've had an explanation for every event from Conquistadors till NOW! (Regarding Ichigo, failures and successes)
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Old 2009-02-19, 13:35   Link #63
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Originally Posted by hakisak View Post
No he is the strongest character, he just hasn't reached his fullest penitential because he's part blockhead, and untutored so he has no idea how and is just winging it! (Yay for run-on sentences!)
Then he isn't the strongest.
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Old 2009-02-19, 13:52   Link #64
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Then he isn't the strongest.
I mean POWER-WISE (He is the strongest)
Not experience ...(The reason he hasn't reached it)

Besides he had good reasons for a lot of his losses. Plot Kai or he'd have just won!!!
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Old 2009-02-19, 13:55   Link #65
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Then he isn't the strongest.
Yup, Ichigo is like a supercar driven in first gear all the time Until Ichigo learns how to shift other sporty cars(Aizen, Gin, Yamamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake, Urahara, maybe some vizards,...) will show better performances.
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:01   Link #66
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Yup, Ichigo is like a supercar driven in first gear all the time Until Ichigo learns how to shift other sporty cars(Aizen, Gin, Yamamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake, Urahara, maybe some vizards,...) will show better performances.
Wow ...this one time I can't tell if you're insulting him or not.

It was good one nevertheless!
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:04   Link #67
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Sigh, re-stating the fact. Ichigo is powerful, and yes it is mentioned before he is a complete blockhead when it comes to swordsmanship. We also aren't accounting the other variables that exist within the fight. Remember hollow Ichigo anyone? Did anyone forget about this egotistical character, that apparently knows how to use a bankai? I think it'd be best if Ichigo communicated with his Inner Hollow again to request some bankai training. Hollow Ichigo's fighting style is one to be admired I am sure of, he practically uses the zanpaktou and swings it like a flail - making the opponent go on the defensive. There is also the variable of Ichigo's exponential reiatsu growth when he experiences resolve. Heck there are a bunch of variables I can account, Ulq will die - it is inevitable, hence the primary focus character being Ichigo.
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:16   Link #68
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Sigh, re-stating the fact. Ichigo is powerful, and yes it is mentioned before he is a complete blockhead when it comes to swordsmanship.
I agree with everything you said but that...


He's a actually great at swordplay because he is already a natural fighter. The Bankai Training was the best example of his strengths when it comes to swordplay.

He's a complete Blockhead when it comes to communicating with his sword, either manifestation of it. He doesn't get the messages they keep trying to send him...not at first. He's kinda dense at times to say, he's book smart.

Btw, I actually think the Mask is another Zanpakuto, but because its now a hollow based reiatsu, it cannot manifest itself in the form of Shinigami Tool. So it comes out as a mask, and that some of the things Ichigo fails to understand...It's a Zanpakuto that uses Hollow Powers. His limited knowledge of how either works-- Shingami powers, and what he knows of hollows makes him fear it...so He can't aptly use it.

Note: The facts I mentioned were in regards to... "why he can and will beat Ulq. It's already been explained that Ulq is actually inferior. He's just better at hurting feelings and pride than Byakuya was..." (It's not a mystery)
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:23   Link #69
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Note: The facts I mentioned were in regards to... "why he can and will beat Ulq. It's already been explained that Ulq is actually inferior. He's just better at hurting feelings and pride than Byakuya was..." (It's not a mystery)
Gotta set foot there, NOBODY talks trash better than Byakuya <3
Also, to end the discussion of weakness here, for all those who say Ichigo's not the strongest yet, just wait for the next chapter...(how ironic is it when I say that in a thread about a chapter that hasn't been translated yet?)
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:23   Link #70
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Basically, Hakisak is saying that Ichigo is like a newb player taking over a maxed-level character on an MMORPG. He has all the power, but hardly any skillz.

IMo, we don't know the extent of the power level of characters like Yama-ji or Aizen, so I can't really agree with that totally. But as for Ichigo vs Ulqi... well it's safe to say that Ichigo IS more powerful than Ulqi, because he said it himself early on. When Ichigo's power is at it's peak, it's higher than his.
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:24   Link #71
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No he is the strongest character, he just hasn't reached his fullest penitential because he's part blockhead, and untutored so he has no idea how and is just winging it! (Yay for run-on sentences!)
Power wise he is above captain lvl! Aizen stopped touched his bankai with a finger and blood came from every pore, I don't care if he beats Ulquiorra I know it is going to happen and sooner or later he is going to surpass everyone because of plotkai BUT someone like Yamamoto can defeat Ichigo with barely any effort just using raw power same with Isshin, Ichigo is far from being the strongest, even reiatsu wise there are people who surpass him and this needs to be recognized, right now reiatsu wise Ulquiorra is stronger which is why Ichigo can't cut him, remember the convo with Zaraki. Chapter 105 page 07 so if Berry-san can't cut Ulquiorra it is because in that state Ulquiorra's reiatsu is stronger.

If Ichigo was able to focus his reiatsu and sharpen it then because of the concentrated energy he should be able to cut him or if he increased his reiatsu levels but he hasn't so he can't even dent his skin. Also might I add that you might bring up what Ulquiorra said last time but it is unspecified if he meant when Ulquiorra was released or if it meant when Hichigo was in total control because I think the reason for the flucuation was that control was switchig between Shirosaki and Ichigo and Shirosaki was the entity Ulquiorra meant was stronger.
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:26   Link #72
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The karakura fights won't go on until next year the way the manga's going on, I prefer calling Ichigo the strongest already...
Quote:
even reiatsu wise there are people who surpass him and this needs to be recognized, right now reiatsu wise Ulquiorra is stronger which is why Ichigo can't cut him, remember the convo with Zaraki
Sounds like KH1 when Sora says his heart was stronger than Riku's at that point in time
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:28   Link #73
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Basically, Hakisak is saying that Ichigo is like a newb player taking over a maxed-level character on an MMORPG. He has all the power, but hardly any skillz.

IMo, we don't know the extent of the power level of characters like Yama-ji or Aizen, so I can't really agree with that totally. But as for Ichigo vs Ulqi... well it's safe to say that Ichigo IS more powerful than Ulqi, because he said it himself early on. When Ichigo's power is at it's peak, it's higher than his.
The voice of reason...

(You RULEZ!) + rep
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:30   Link #74
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Sounds like KH1 when Sora says his heart was stronger than Riku's at that point in time
I never had a PS2 so I've never played it
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Old 2009-02-19, 14:42   Link #75
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The karakura fights won't go on until next year the way the manga's going on, I

Please don't scare me like that...
*Szayel Flashback*

@TW...you know you totally eased my tensions. At least one person understood it ^0^

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prefer calling Ichigo the strongest already...
You don't know it, but your cool pts went up really high with that.
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Old 2009-02-19, 15:09   Link #76
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If the mask is an infestation of the sword, I am pretty sure Ichigo would have to condense the reiatsu into something a bit more compact, so it isn't frail and cracks just like his masks. that's an interesting thought though hakisak, I agree that Ichigo still has a lot to learn about his potential with the hollow mask, and it would be interesting if he could somewhat simulate that reiatsu into a more perfected form of a sword. Kinda of like a bankai release, and a hollow reiatsu release to boost his power up while dual-wielding two swords? (I just realized something, the sword that hollow Ichigo once held was completely bleached white, that's probably the sword itself?)
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Old 2009-02-19, 15:16   Link #77
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If the mask is an infestation of the sword, I am pretty sure Ichigo would have to condense the reiatsu into something a bit more compact, so it isn't frail and cracks just like his masks. that's an interesting thought though hakisak, I agree that Ichigo still has a lot to learn about his potential with the hollow mask, and it would be interesting if he could somewhat simulate that reiatsu into a more perfected form of a sword. Kinda of like a bankai release, and a hollow reiatsu release to boost his power up while dual-wielding two swords? (I just realized something, the sword that hollow Ichigo once held was completely bleached white, that's probably the sword itself?)
This probably TMI but I really need a shower. Let's take this to" Ichigo's Hollow powers" Thread when I come back...I will explain my theory....Okay

( I love to speculate and I have a lot of theories. Which I will admit some ARE crack *just not all of them*)

Look for my post okay?
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Old 2009-02-19, 16:25   Link #78
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If the mask is an infestation of the sword, I am pretty sure Ichigo would have to condense the reiatsu into something a bit more compact, so it isn't frail and cracks just like his masks. that's an interesting thought though hakisak, I agree that Ichigo still has a lot to learn about his potential with the hollow mask, and it would be interesting if he could somewhat simulate that reiatsu into a more perfected form of a sword. Kinda of like a bankai release, and a hollow reiatsu release to boost his power up while dual-wielding two swords? (I just realized something, the sword that hollow Ichigo once held was completely bleached white, that's probably the sword itself?)
That would be cool to see two bankais, I think if that did happen then the hollow sword might be longer, if that happens it would mean that....Ichigo learn't dual wield (plays too much Final Fantasy Tactics), he is using Masamune and that Holy one. I think that materializing the mask into a sword might be a trait the vaizards might have kind of the opposite of Arrancar who have a sword first then turn into a version of there hollow form. But vaizard have a mask that resembles their hollow first then they have a sword.
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Old 2009-02-19, 16:40   Link #79
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That's actually a really nice concept, Ichigo could harness his full power into 100% old-guy-Zangetsu mode and separate the two. After all his soul has two sides, one for each sword would match the description of a soul slayer...and then he'd come up with overkill Getsuga Cero!
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Old 2009-02-19, 17:04   Link #80
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In my opinion Bankai became obsolete when Ichigo gained the Full Mask. It's like a second Bankai already... I bet he has a hollow-human form. It just hasn't appeared. Ogichi might show up...I dunno since he was turning into Zangetsu. But the "Old Man" will probably call him out.

They will mentor him, he will get a new move and dazzle you once again. It's just KT couldn't let him shine or it would be overkill because he did the things he did in SS.

Seriously he deflects an attack that has the power of million ZanpakutoS and Destroys a Cross that has the power to deflect a Million Zanpakutos and still people doubt him...*Mind boggling*

Urahara & Chad said it best:


Urahara :
" It's true Kurosaki -Kun has far above average Shingami Powers ..However he has very few skills as to how to use those EXCESSIVE powers" (Now add learning about an inner hollow to that)

Chad:

"What the the other Shingami have, that he definitely lacked...is EXPERIENCE. If he can at least compensate for that, he would... He would become frighteningly POWERFUL")


Um...Yeah. Strength is not his problem...

No wonder Ulq can keep up at the moment...
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