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Old 2010-07-16, 16:09   Link #2221
LuckyCat
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I promise this is the last time I comment on this, but I do love Cell saga...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Point me to one occasion where he admits to knowing he couldn't win since before the fight.
Twice it is stated. The first time he meets Perfect Cell, he comes back to Kami's palace and tells everyone he probably can't win. The second time is after he talks to Karin, and Karin tells him that Cell is in fact stronger, and Goku says that is just as he thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
you were implying Goku wasn't even trying to win, which he clearly was. If he wasn't, again, what was the point of the Warp Kamehame?
Goku likes to fight. Whether he knew he could win or not, he wanted to at least give his best shot at him. That's what I've gathered, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
"The next match will probably decide the outcome of the Cell Game. If the next guy can't beat you, then probably no one can. However, after fighting you, I'm pretty sure that he can beat you. That's why I'm leaving everything to him and giving up."
Probably, he says. He was betting on Gohan to win, but even so giving Cell that sensu bean and letting Gohan fight ended up killing Goku. At least Vegeta survives his fight with #18.
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Old 2010-07-16, 16:28   Link #2222
justavisitor
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imo, Goku was as reckless as Vegeta in the Freeza arc when Goku let Freeza power up...What Goku did was no different from what Vegeta did in the Cell saga, but we have to remember that Goku just turned in SSJ...he was overwhelmed by Sayian Blood all of a sudden

What Goku did in Cell saga was still pretty absurd, but it was a bit better than what Vegeta did..Goku was thinking if he could wear down Cell to this level, then Gohan would have no problem beating Cell even when Cell was at 100%

Goku's decision to spare Kid Buu was crazy...he thought a fusion between 2 young kids could save the world!!! Well, I like Buu saga the least anyway, and this is one of the reasons

In the end, everyone was a bit out of character in Buu saga..overall, Goku was not as reckless as Vegeta in general
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Old 2010-07-17, 11:33   Link #2223
ChronoReverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiosai View Post
but even so giving Cell that sensu bean and letting Gohan fight ended up killing Goku. At least Vegeta survives his fight with #18.
That had nothing to do with why Goku died. SSJ2 Gohan would have acted the same way regardless.

Quote:
Goku's decision to spare Kid Buu was crazy...he thought a fusion between 2 young kids could save the world!!! Well, I like Buu saga the least anyway, and this is one of the reasons
Goku thought maybe he could beat Buu (and it was the normal fat Majin buu at this point). On the other hand, he was certain that fusion will beat Buu. Add his desire to leave things to those who are actually alive and I don't feel it was terribly reckless.

Considering his love of fighting, you could even say Goku decided to make (what he considered) a level-headed decision instead of giving in to his urges for a good fight.
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Old 2010-07-17, 12:23   Link #2224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
That had nothing to do with why Goku died. SSJ2 Gohan would have acted the same way regardless.
There's no way of knowing that. I do like how when Cell gets the senzu bean he says, "Doesn't he realize this softness is fatal?"

I did always wonder if plain old Super Saiyan Gohan could've put up a good fight versus the weakened Cell, though.
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Old 2010-07-18, 01:56   Link #2225
CuXe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Consider this: back when GT first aired I was on the edge of my seat waiting for it. I had no idea who Toriyama was back then and all I knew was that Dragonball was coming back for more so I woke up early Saturday morning to watch the first episode of GT...

...and it was crap. There I was, a 15 year old kid, looking at the tv and dropping the freaking show on the 3rd episode. I latter went and watched the whole thing but I still think it was a bad show. Like I said it had some moments but that's about it. It just wasn't the same as the rest of Dragonball. And it wasn't just me, everyone I knew back then thought the same thing and virtually everyone I know by now still does. I'm even the oddball who defends GT has some good moments but even I don't think it's good, just average.

In fact the only other moment in Dragonball that I managed to stop watching because the story wasn't working for me was during the Garlic Jr. arc and guess who also didn't wrote that one?
To be honest, by the time DBZ was over and GT started I was already tired so it comes as a surprise that someone who endured THAT much punishment would just drop the show because of a "garlic jr" arc in Z or 16 eps of the ultimate Dragon balls in GT, I mean that garlic jr thing was just as bad as the Red ribbon army arc and people didn't drop DB after enduring that painful arc, not only that but they continued to watch DB even after enduring the General Blue arc... oh man was that great!

Things didn't get decent until the Tien Shinhan arc 84 eps into the series... yeah 84 eps! Funny how someone who endured that whole thing would drop GT just because of Garlic Jr lol. I mean regardless of age, if you endured 80-something eps of pure LOLs then... complaining about odd arcs is rather weird.

GT starts with 16 eps of the ultimate dragon balls and then jumps to baby..... so it was 16 eps of random LOLs until the fight got back on track. I find that rather easy to endure considering someone watched all of DB and DBZ and didn't drop the series by the time the show was up to 250 eps. But as I said before, if someone was to drop the show they would have done it at the 80 ep mark cause imo thats lotsa punishment!

If you ask me the moment of truth was during the first 80 or so eps of DB... if someone passed that mark and somehow enjoyed it they could easily go all the way to GT without even flinching ...
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Old 2010-07-18, 02:27   Link #2226
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Good episode.
Spoiler for episode 65:
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Old 2010-07-18, 03:27   Link #2227
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Spoiler for episode 65:
It'll be interesting to see who will be voicing Kami.
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Old 2010-07-18, 08:10   Link #2228
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuXe View Post
To be honest, by the time DBZ was over and GT started I was already tired so it comes as a surprise that someone who endured THAT much punishment would just drop the show because of a "garlic jr" arc in Z or 16 eps of the ultimate Dragon balls in GT, I mean that garlic jr thing was just as bad as the Red ribbon army arc and people didn't drop DB after enduring that painful arc, not only that but they continued to watch DB even after enduring the General Blue arc... oh man was that great!

Things didn't get decent until the Tien Shinhan arc 84 eps into the series... yeah 84 eps! Funny how someone who endured that whole thing would drop GT just because of Garlic Jr lol. I mean regardless of age, if you endured 80-something eps of pure LOLs then... complaining about odd arcs is rather weird.

GT starts with 16 eps of the ultimate dragon balls and then jumps to baby..... so it was 16 eps of random LOLs until the fight got back on track. I find that rather easy to endure considering someone watched all of DB and DBZ and didn't drop the series by the time the show was up to 250 eps. But as I said before, if someone was to drop the show they would have done it at the 80 ep mark cause imo thats lotsa punishment!

If you ask me the moment of truth was during the first 80 or so eps of DB... if someone passed that mark and somehow enjoyed it they could easily go all the way to GT without even flinching ...
Sorry if you can take subpar storylines, I couldn't even at that age. Dragonball was fun even with the crappy general blue storyline but it was a different beast with a completely different feel.

But hey, if you like watching crap don't let me stop you, just know not everyone feels the same way.
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Old 2010-07-18, 09:22   Link #2229
LuckyCat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
It'll be interesting to see who will be voicing Kami.
Wikipedia says it's Bin Shimada.
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Old 2010-07-18, 10:28   Link #2230
ChainLegacy
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You've gotta respect Tienshinhan, one of my favorite characters in the series. He can't be much stronger than Krillin at this point but he just dives into the fray anyways. Too bad he instantly gets put into a choke-hold lol.

And I've gotta admit, even after all the bad things Vegeta did the past episode I still don't like seeing him get wrecked by 18. Toriyama really doesn't hide the fact that he hates Vegeta.
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Old 2010-07-18, 10:51   Link #2231
ChronoReverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiosai View Post
There's no way of knowing that. I do like how when Cell gets the senzu bean he says, "Doesn't he realize this softness is fatal?"

I did always wonder if plain old Super Saiyan Gohan could've put up a good fight versus the weakened Cell, though.
What? SSJ2 Gohan was so stupidly more powerful than Perfect Cell that he'd be super cocky regardless. It would take 2 punches instead of 3 to knock 18 out Cell maybe and then it goes back to Imperfect Cell self-destructing.


The only question is whether SSJ Gohan could put up a real fight against a somewhat weakened Perfect Cell. Considering Perfect Cell was telling Goku to eat a sensu so that they could continue their fight, I'd say he had plenty of gas left.
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Old 2010-07-18, 13:30   Link #2232
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiosai View Post
Wikipedia says it's Bin Shimada.
Foxy, Brolly and Scirocco. He'll fit nicely.
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Old 2010-07-19, 07:55   Link #2233
Shiroth
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Truly loved how this weeks episode didn't hold anything back with the pacing for Vegeta vs 18. Glad they did away with the highway scene with all the cars, because it's pretty the fight going on for that long when it's Vegeta who just wants to show what we can do with the power he has. Plus it completely cancels out the Android team moving location because there's no cars here.

Sure Vegeta deserved it in someway, though it's still painful to watch him being beaten in such a way, especially the stomping of his second arm.

& i always found it awesome how the gang get's annihilated, though Krillin get's a kiss.

Next weeks starts Piccolo's time to shine. Oh oh i can't wait.
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Old 2010-07-19, 08:06   Link #2234
SuperKnuckles
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I actually sorta miss the car scene because it was pretty funny watching world destroyers have a road trip.
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Old 2010-07-19, 10:13   Link #2235
ChainLegacy
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I think that van is still coming. There just won't be as many stretched out filler scenes with them driving. The androids still have to get their new clothes, as well, which is all part of that road trip.
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Old 2010-07-19, 10:17   Link #2236
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
I actually sorta miss the car scene because it was pretty funny watching world destroyers have a road trip.
That scene wasn't shown at this part of the story. I was talking about the few scenes that had Vegeta and 18 on a highway, jumping from car's and van's. Glad they cut that filler out.
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Old 2010-07-19, 19:21   Link #2237
CuXe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Sorry if you can take subpar storylines, I couldn't even at that age. Dragonball was fun even with the crappy general blue storyline but it was a different beast with a completely different feel.

But hey, if you like watching crap don't let me stop you, just know not everyone feels the same way.
U referring to DB as "crap?" ... if so ... mind if I ask..... what are you doing here?
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Old 2010-07-19, 19:33   Link #2238
Ronin Aquila
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As I expected, 18 years later, it is still as painful to watch classical masculinity demolished by a teenage girl as it is for a rape victim to watch Jodie Foster's The Accused.

Even moreso with the entire world going to the feminists: All my 64 year old Geography Teacher did 10 years ago was to call the 22 year old intern "love", a very NORMAL NON-SEXUAL Australian slang for a young lady, and she had the right to sue him out of his job, 3 months away from an honorable pension, for "sexual harrasment."

Brava feminism, you're so powerful picking on a helpless old man and robbing him of a happy retirement. Bra-Fricking-Va!!

I bet I'm not alone amongst fans of "James Dean" and "Marlon Brando" masculinity that winced in pain with Vegeta as that little blonde psycho shattered his arm and his pride.
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Old 2010-07-19, 19:37   Link #2239
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuXe View Post
U referring to DB as "crap?" ... if so ... mind if I ask..... what are you doing here?
He's saying GT is crap, which again a great many fans believe, so he's not doing anything out of the ordinary.
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Old 2010-07-19, 20:09   Link #2240
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuXe View Post
U referring to DB as "crap?" ... if so ... mind if I ask..... what are you doing here?
Reading comprehension fail

Like ChainLegacy I'm saying most DragonBall fillers (GT included) were mostly crap and I stand by that believe. Heck I even think most DB movies are subpar including the Brolly ones.
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