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Old 2010-09-30, 00:11   Link #2401
AvianWing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Toriyama admitted that he basically just made stuff up as he went along.
Truly a master of the shounen genre =)
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Old 2010-09-30, 00:16   Link #2402
secretzfan
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
LOL that's not true at all. Lots is unexplained, I'll give you a few: what species is Freeza and why is only his family shown, where did 17 and 18 originally come from, what happens to 16 after the Cell saga, what is the deal with all the magical rooms in Kami's lookout, who the hell created the idea of "Kami" to begin with, why are Piccolo Daimao's children not Namekians, whatever happened to Master Shen, what is the deal with Fortuneteller Baba, where did Dabura come from, etc. And these are just things off the top of my head. The show is probably my all time favorite anime, but it has so much random shit in it I really have a hard time believing you think that way. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Toriyama admitted that he basically just made stuff up as he went along.
Most of it is were enemies came from but I think you forget although DBZ has all these question it all gives wait to a grand fan base. I guess that is the reason I think it is so concrete, because in truth the series could have gone on for a lifetime similar to Bleach, but even with so many unanswered question this actually can keep a fan base going and growing people of today don't realize that by leaving out certain details it continue the series forever even when the series ends and that is why I love DBZ
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Old 2010-09-30, 03:25   Link #2403
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Toriyama admitted that he basically just made stuff up as he went along.
It's amazing how much fans made up information in the Z days without showing any kind of source, so yeah don't believe it for a second.
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Old 2010-09-30, 10:12   Link #2404
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For Toriyama's part, there is a line back when Chaozu is fighting Nappa where he says his powers don't work. That may have been the beginning of the end for our dear friend.
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Old 2010-09-30, 11:38   Link #2405
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Originally Posted by secretzfan View Post
Most of it is were enemies came from but I think you forget although DBZ has all these question it all gives wait to a grand fan base. I guess that is the reason I think it is so concrete, because in truth the series could have gone on for a lifetime similar to Bleach, but even with so many unanswered question this actually can keep a fan base going and growing people of today don't realize that by leaving out certain details it continue the series forever even when the series ends and that is why I love DBZ
Yeah but there is a difference between liking a series and not admitting any faults it has. Actually I don't even think they're faults, since they didn't detract from the fun of the series. So I disagree, the plot might be shoddy at parts but DBZ is still one of the best anime ever created. I don't think it could have gone on for a lifetime either. We saw a pretty sizable drop in quality from the Cell saga to the Buu saga (imo) which seemed to be because Toriyama was running out of ideas.

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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
It's amazing how much fans made up information in the Z days without showing any kind of source, so yeah don't believe it for a second.
True, but he definitely winged some stuff. He didn't intend Goku and Piccolo to be aliens to begin with, which is pretty major.
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Old 2010-09-30, 12:24   Link #2406
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He didn't intend for a green guy with antennas to be an alien? What the hell did he intend then?
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Old 2010-09-30, 12:25   Link #2407
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
He didn't intend for a green guy with antennas to be an alien? What the hell did he intend then?
Lol. Have you watched Dragonball? Kami was god (obviously) and Piccolo the devil.
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Old 2010-09-30, 12:46   Link #2408
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I watched it but I really don't recall it ever being stated that Piccolo was THE DEVIL just because he was the evil half of the guardian of the Earth. If you can point me to where it was indeed stated, then sure. Otherwise it's merely a conjecture of yours, since I don't think you're capable of reading Toriyama's mind and knowing what his intentions at the time were.

And even if Piccolo were THE DEVIL, since when does the devil have to be from the Earth? Hell is another world altogether in Dragonball, so technically he'd still be an alien regardless.
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Old 2010-09-30, 12:50   Link #2409
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
True, but he definitely winged some stuff.
Personally i don't think so, though people all have their different opinions and such. Ah well.
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Old 2010-09-30, 12:50   Link #2410
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I watched it but I really don't recall it ever being stated that Piccolo was THE DEVIL just because he was the evil half of the guardian of the Earth. If you can point me to where it was indeed stated, then sure. Otherwise it's merely a conjecture of yours, since I don't think you're capable of reading Toriyama's mind and knowing what his intentions at the time were.
Well he's called the Demon King... Not really much of a stretch. I can't read his mind, but if Piccolo were originally meant to be an alien, why weren't his children Namekian?
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Old 2010-09-30, 13:50   Link #2411
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I'm sure the arcs were pre-planned but certainly not the entire story.
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It still wouldn't work on Perfect Cell
The kienzan not working on the Cell scene wasn't in the manga... therefore it's not canon!
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Do Chaozu's psychic powers even work anymore? I think they showed it only once, in Dragonball during the Tienshinhan tournament. That power would be useful even with how weak he is, but I'm sure they'd explain it as the current opponents are too strong to be affected or something like that.
Chaozu used his psychic powers in the 23rd budokai and that's the last time we've seen it. Not that Chaozu had much of a role in the series after getting killed by Demon Piccolo.
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Old 2010-09-30, 17:48   Link #2412
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Spoiler for Perfect Cell:
But that's just a dub thing. He says nothing of sort in the original. Actually, many things are not really explained in the original (both manga and anime). I think it's because Torishama didn't really care about his plot making perfect sense. I don't really get why the fans (and the dub) want everything to make sense. That's nonsense (horrible pun intended )
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-09-30, 18:06   Link #2413
TrueElements
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yeah piccolo is basically the devil, Kami is god, and to become god he had to expel all the evil from his body which became king piccolo
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Old 2010-09-30, 21:30   Link #2414
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Yeah but there is a difference between liking a series and not admitting any faults it has. Actually I don't even think they're faults, since they didn't detract from the fun of the series. So I disagree, the plot might be shoddy at parts but DBZ is still one of the best anime ever created. I don't think it could have gone on for a lifetime either. We saw a pretty sizable drop in quality from the Cell saga to the Buu saga (imo) which seemed to be because Toriyama was running out of ideas.


Yea but it still continued on just a person runs out of ideas doesn't mean anything. It can still forever will still got GT you know
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Old 2010-09-30, 23:28   Link #2415
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Yea but it still continued on just a person runs out of ideas doesn't mean anything. It can still forever will still got GT you know
It means a lot, without original ideas it wouldn't be enjoyable. And GT wasn't fun for that very reason, it was unoriginal and not created by Toriyama either.
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Old 2010-09-30, 23:58   Link #2416
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It means a lot, without original ideas it wouldn't be enjoyable. And GT wasn't fun for that very reason, it was unoriginal and not created by Toriyama either.
I now that but it just proves Dragon ball can go on forever they even made up that fake AF thing
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Old 2010-10-01, 01:41   Link #2417
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
I'm sure the arcs were pre-planned but certainly not the entire story.
Actually, the arcs weren't entirely pre-planned either. There's a lot of indications that the Freeza-arc was originally going to have a rather different ending, for instance. (Mostly in the fact that the ending to it is really just a huge string of Deus Ex Machinas... Piccolo somehow doesn't die, Kaio's plan to revive the Grand Elder was extremely far-fetched, and we clearly see Goku screaming in agony in the last moments of Planet Namek, yet later it's revealed that he apparently found one of the Ginyu Special Corps' space-pods and flew away in it.) Also, notice how in the manga, Trunks initially refers to the artificial humans who will come in 3 years as #19 and #20, yet not too long after, it's revealed that #20 is actually Dr. Gero, and that the true threat comes from #17 and #18... After which point the ones from the future are also #17 and #18, all of a sudden. (Though I heard Kai fixed this by having him just not say their names in his talk with Goku, and if this is true, I suppose I should give Toei some credit for filling in a pretty blatant plot-hole.)
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Old 2010-10-01, 03:03   Link #2418
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Hm yeah, there is a rather big case of 'Let's not get in each other's way' in DBZ. Which is a shame, team battles would have been extremely fun to watch. There's a lot of plotholes in dbz, and a lot of unexplained crap, it's true.

Although I think Frieza was a changeling.
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Old 2010-10-01, 03:35   Link #2419
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
Actually, the arcs weren't entirely pre-planned either. There's a lot of indications that the Freeza-arc was originally going to have a rather different ending, for instance. (Mostly in the fact that the ending to it is really just a huge string of Deus Ex Machinas... Piccolo somehow doesn't die, Kaio's plan to revive the Grand Elder was extremely far-fetched, and we clearly see Goku screaming in agony in the last moments of Planet Namek, yet later it's revealed that he apparently found one of the Ginyu Special Corps' space-pods and flew away in it.) Also, notice how in the manga, Trunks initially refers to the artificial humans who will come in 3 years as #19 and #20, yet not too long after, it's revealed that #20 is actually Dr. Gero, and that the true threat comes from #17 and #18... After which point the ones from the future are also #17 and #18, all of a sudden. (Though I heard Kai fixed this by having him just not say their names in his talk with Goku, and if this is true, I suppose I should give Toei some credit for filling in a pretty blatant plot-hole.)
Fan theories again?
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Old 2010-10-01, 07:39   Link #2420
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just realised there was a new dbz anime. Just to check is this remastered version as draggy as the old one? I remember one preparation for kamehameha scene between cell and gohan taking like 5 episodes.
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