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Old 2010-05-10, 03:52   Link #1921
roriconfan
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Well, that would be too much. I thought Frieza's power ups made it clear that it was like that:

1st form 500th
2nd 1m
3rd 1.5m
4th 25% 3m
4th 100% 12m
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Old 2010-05-10, 05:11   Link #1922
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Originally Posted by MushroomSamba View Post
I dunno, I liked their choice there. To me, the scene isn't really meant to be epic, but more of a creepy "can this really be happening" sort of moment. In that regard, I think the new music matches that mood perfectly.
Yeah that's how i feel about the scene, meaning i was pleased with the music placement. Along with the new music we had in this episode. Has me all pumped for the coming arc.
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Old 2010-05-10, 05:14   Link #1923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Well, that would be too much. I thought Frieza's power ups made it clear that it was like that:

1st form 500th
2nd 1m
3rd 1.5m
4th 25% 3m
4th 100% 12m
Daizenshuu states 120 million for Freeza at 100%. No power level is specified for Freeza's third form in any official media.

Also, Anime Insider is not an official source.
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Old 2010-05-10, 06:19   Link #1924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Yeah that's how i feel about the scene, meaning i was pleased with the music placement. Along with the new music we had in this episode. Has me all pumped for the coming arc.
The new music sets a very different mood compared to the original series. It's one of intrigue. I like how adequately creepy the feeling was when Trunks was transforming. His origins are ridiculously sad and I liked the way he dealt with King Cold. The music was especially well placed to me as he handed over his sword.

And man, the background music as he talked the others into following him to Son Goku was just awesome. I loved the wind instruments.
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Old 2010-05-10, 09:33   Link #1925
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
which leads us to believe that once a super sayajin transforms several times, not only he has enough to beat freeza & family, but he kicks some serious arse.

proof of that is the difference in SSJ first form, when goku fighting freeza, and when Goku confronts Cell - same form, but about 10 times stronger.
The SS1 transformation has 4 levels: 1st Grade, 2nd Grade, 3rd Grade, and Mastered Form. There is a big difference in power between each of these levels, and they can only be achieved after extensive training. Goku used the 1st Grade to defeat Freeza, whereas he fought Cell in his mastered SS1 form.

1st Grade SS1 Goku had a power level of 150 million on Namek. 1st Grade SS1 Trunks seems to be comparable to that Goku. A cybernetic 100% Freeza would surely be beyond 120 million. Due to this reasoning, I feel it would be hard to say who the victor would be had Freeza gone all out.
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Old 2010-05-10, 10:42   Link #1926
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He did go all out. He even shot an attack capable of destroying the Earth at Trunks.
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Old 2010-05-10, 10:48   Link #1927
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Freeza can fire a blast capable of destroying earth in his FIRST form. Not that I'm saying he wasn't using more power than that lol.

It's also possible his cybernetic form doesn't need to bulk up to 100% mode either.
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Old 2010-05-10, 10:49   Link #1928
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So, what are you guys telling me? Freeza and Cold just kinda let Trunks beat them? Doesn't make any sense, and also the whole point of that scene was to show how strong Trunks was, so I think no amount of powering up would have altered the outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MushroomSamba View Post
I dunno, I liked their choice there. To me, the scene isn't really meant to be epic, but more of a creepy "can this really be happening" sort of moment.
Yeah the music was perfect in my opinion as well. I even remember feeling like "who the hell is this guy?," when I first watched the show as a kid. And also, if you don't know Trunks's character going into the scene he appears fairly ruthless.
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Old 2010-05-10, 10:55   Link #1929
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Watching Freeza split in half and then chopped into little chunks... I didn't expect it to be this graphic. That was definitely censored when I saw it on TV years ago and it was wierd seeing the same scene again, but like this.

I've always wondered how the fight would have played out if Trunks wasn't there (besides the expected dragged out battle with tons of explosions) More so with Cold. You never get to see him go all out afterall.
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Old 2010-05-10, 11:04   Link #1930
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
He did go all out. He even shot an attack capable of destroying the Earth at Trunks.
He may have used his strongest attack, but he didn't power up to his maximum potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
So, what are you guys telling me? Freeza and Cold just kinda let Trunks beat them? Doesn't make any sense, and also the whole point of that scene was to show how strong Trunks was, so I think no amount of powering up would have altered the outcome.
More like they were cocky and overconfident, thinking they wouldn't need to use their true power to fight him. This becomes obvious after Frieza is killed, and King Cold still thinks it's merely because of the sword and not any actual power level reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quakis View Post
I've always wondered how the fight would have played out if Trunks wasn't there (besides the expected dragged out battle with tons of explosions) More so with Cold. You never get to see him go all out afterall.
Agreed, I wish they had shown that in the beginning of the History of Trunks or something. Though it's possible that Goku decided they had enough chances and to just char broil them on the spot like Trunks did.
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Old 2010-05-10, 11:17   Link #1931
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I'm still not fully convinced. Granted, what you're saying is true in that they weren't taking Trunks seriously enough. Still, Goku is supposed to have undergone a power-up since his first encounter with Freeza, stemming from increased exposure to SSJ form. Trunks would have already had this, and is used to fighting opponents much stronger than Freeza and Cold. So maybe they could have taken him seriously and lasted a little bit longer, but I think it would have been quick and easy for Trunks either way, especially given the nature of the scene.
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Old 2010-05-10, 11:46   Link #1932
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Oh, it definitely would have been easy, but probably not quick. He'd probably have to break a sweat if both of them attacked him seriously at the same time.

Also, if King Cold had more transformations lying in wait, that could've posed problems.
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Old 2010-05-10, 14:02   Link #1933
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Still, Goku is supposed to have undergone a power-up since his first encounter with Freeza, stemming from increased exposure to SSJ form.
Training and recovering from battle are the two things that increase a saiyan's power. Increased exposure to SSJ only makes it easier and more natural to enter that state.
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Old 2010-05-10, 18:03   Link #1934
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Future Trunks sliced and diced Freeza. Always liked that performance.
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Old 2010-05-10, 18:52   Link #1935
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people, ENOUGH with the 120/150 mill with freeza/goku!

yeah, Daizenshuu says so - BUT AKIRA TORYAMA stated that it's a mistake in an interview!

last measured power level is one where freeza states that his 2nd form has about a million.

and no OFFICIAL power levels were stated afterwards, and, in an interview with Akira, he SAID that it was about 15 mill for goku, and printing mistake in the Daizenshuu was with one more zero!

think about it yourself - powerups are to increase fighters power for about 2x, 3x, in the Kaioken instance, it goes to 20x, but, if you want to believe that Freeza full has 240x times his first suppressed form - then you are just dumb. it is as just as you compare the power of a bicycle, with a Sukhoi Su 47

site that got shut down - DBZGTLEGACY had the most probable power levels, but i cant find similar list anywhere.
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Old 2010-05-10, 19:09   Link #1936
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
people, ENOUGH with the 120/150 mill with freeza/goku!

yeah, Daizenshuu says so - BUT AKIRA TORYAMA stated that it's a mistake in an interview!

last measured power level is one where freeza states that his 2nd form has about a million.

and no OFFICIAL power levels were stated afterwards, and, in an interview with Akira, he SAID that it was about 15 mill for goku, and printing mistake in the Daizenshuu was with one more zero!
That's not how Japanese works. It didn't say 150,000,000. It said 1億5000万. That's 100,000,000 and then 5000 x 10,000, or 50,000,000, totaling 150,000,000.

So, either find these "official interviews", or no one's going to believe you over Daizenshuu.
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Old 2010-05-10, 20:14   Link #1937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The SS1 transformation has 4 levels: 1st Grade, 2nd Grade, 3rd Grade, and Mastered Form. There is a big difference in power between each of these levels, and they can only be achieved after extensive training. Goku used the 1st Grade to defeat Freeza, whereas he fought Cell in his mastered SS1 form.

1st Grade SS1 Goku had a power level of 150 million on Namek. 1st Grade SS1 Trunks seems to be comparable to that Goku. A cybernetic 100% Freeza would surely be beyond 120 million. Due to this reasoning, I feel it would be hard to say who the victor would be had Freeza gone all out.
Don't know if you watched History of Trunks. He transformed as a kid, and the Trunks we know of has been a SS1 for 3 years. Even though he gets constantly hammered (Which powers him up anyway, since he survives) by the androids, their power level is still vastly superior to Freeza.

I think there's no mistake. No estimations of power level coming from fans will ever convince me that Trunks didn't dominate and slash up Freeza into fine pork chops. That's because he just did.

I'll believe power levels when I'll see them coming from Toriyama.
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Old 2010-05-11, 00:07   Link #1938
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Don't know if you watched History of Trunks. He transformed as a kid, and the Trunks we know of has been a SS1 for 3 years. Even though he gets constantly hammered (Which powers him up anyway, since he survives) by the androids, their power level is still vastly superior to Freeza.

I think there's no mistake. No estimations of power level coming from fans will ever convince me that Trunks didn't dominate and slash up Freeza into fine pork chops. That's because he just did.
The androids from the future were much weaker than the ones in the current time. Trunks said that he could at least fight them both for a while back in his timeline. And of course he would get dominated by them when they were always ganging up on him.

I know that Trunks killed Freeza easily. No one is disputing that. But my point is that Freeza didn't use his full power, so things may have gone down differently in that scenario.
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Old 2010-05-11, 02:43   Link #1939
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
think about it yourself - powerups are to increase fighters power for about 2x, 3x, in the Kaioken instance, it goes to 20x, but, if you want to believe that Freeza full has 240x times his first suppressed form - then you are just dumb. it is as just as you compare the power of a bicycle, with a Sukhoi Su 47
Daizenshuu is the official word, but even if you try to rationalize this numbers, you'll find out that they actually make sense:

Daizenshuu states Goku's base power when starting his fight with Frieza as 3m, and they're evenly matched, right? And it isn't far-fetched at all to think that Frieza's last form has a base power of 3m, right?

But then Frieza goes up to 25%, and Goku needs to use 10x kaioken (which leaves him at 30m) to keep up. Then Frieza goes up to 50%, and Goku uses 20X kaioken (60m).... so, think of Frieza's power ups as a sort of Kaioken and it makes sense... it also explain why he can't sustain his full power for a long period of time.
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Old 2010-05-11, 04:56   Link #1940
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The androids from the future were much weaker than the ones in the current time. Trunks said that he could at least fight them both for a while back in his timeline. And of course he would get dominated by them when they were always ganging up on him.

I know that Trunks killed Freeza easily. No one is disputing that. But my point is that Freeza didn't use his full power, so things may have gone down differently in that scenario.
They're not weaker than Freeza by a long shot. Freeza was taken down by a first-timer SS1. The androids couldn't be defeated by Gohan, Vegeta or Trunks, and they were all Super Saiyans. No matter how 'weak' they were compared to the androids from the regular timeline, they were clearly not as weak as Frieza. That just wouldn't make sense. At all.

Perhaps Freeza underestimated him. But what about how easily he was dispatched? One sword strike and it was over. The androids in History of Trunks could avoid and or grab the sword. What about Frieza? If he was as strong as you make it sound, he could've brought his mechanical arm up and defended himself if he was fast enough to parry the blow. He wasn't. And he was in final form.

If you mean to say he was waiting to be struck by a sword, his look of absolute fear didn't make it look like he intended it to happen.

Then King Cold comes in and assumes the sword actually defeated his son. He has no reason to be underestimating Trunks. He is dispatched with one Ki blast and begging for his life before the next one ends him.

I'm sorry, I really couldn't care less about power levels. They mean nothing at this stage. Saying Frieza could put up a fight is baseless. Nothing even hints that he was able to do it except fanmade numbers, fanmade logic and fanmade interpretation.

aka I'm done here.
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