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Old 2007-10-15, 15:23   Link #1
SuperAsuradaGundam
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Japanese animators and directors unionized

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...sh-first-union


This could be good or bad.
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Old 2007-10-15, 16:00   Link #2
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Well, it's probably a good thing for the poor animators who get paid almost nothing right now.

This will make anime more expensive to produce, most likely, so it could be that less anime gets made.
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Old 2007-10-15, 16:02   Link #3
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Well, it's probably a good thing for the poor animators who get paid almost nothing right now.

This will make anime more expensive to produce, most likely, so it could be that less anime gets made.
This is a good thing, actually. It forces people to think of quality rather than pump out shit shows.
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Old 2007-10-15, 16:05   Link #4
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This is a good thing, actually. It forces people to think of quality rather than pump out shit shows.
In an ideal world, yes.

In reality it could lead to less niche stuff being made and more generic shounen and shoujo.
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Old 2007-10-15, 16:07   Link #5
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In an ideal world, yes.

In reality it could lead to less niche stuff being made and more generic shounen and shoujo.
It's too bad. I really like awesome quality stuff like Dennou Coil being made.

I really don't want another adaptation with a low budget.
Like F/SN for example. The visual novel to anime transition could have been SO much better, and they totally messed it up. I mean, the fight scenes were barely passable.
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Old 2007-10-15, 16:29   Link #6
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In an ideal world, yes.

In reality it could lead to less niche stuff being made and more generic shounen and shoujo.
I don't think so. It could me more outsourcing of animation to Korea, China,...etc.

However I'm happy that the animators are stepping up because of the low treatment they are receiving for their work, I mean consider the first episode of Plantes
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Old 2007-10-15, 18:18   Link #7
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It's ironic that this union was founded by big shots whose underlings get paid a lot better than the rest of the industry. Still, some people believe the entry level wages are just miserable enough for young talent to reconsider their profession. I have a hard time imagining how one can survive on such low wages in the Tokyo area where most animation studios are located... Then again, that's been the case for decades. What's changed? Production commitees becoming greedy over the little revenue they can anticipate? Outsourcing to Korea and Taiwan, here we go~!
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Old 2007-10-15, 23:18   Link #8
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Unions ... good for workers, at least until the corruption sets in... but then *most* human organizations corrupt over time, like corporations.

Worry about more outsourcing but only if the unions are unable to put the brakes on the amount that can be offshored.
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Old 2007-10-16, 00:38   Link #9
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In the long term, this might be very good for the anime industry if the unionization expands. However, in the short term, it can get pretty ugly for the unionists since the industry does have other sources of talent. Moving production to other countries is a distinct possibility. And it has shown a willingness to people who try to buck the trend (for some reason, Tange Sakura comes to mind here). Still, this is probably a step in the right direction since unfair/untenable working conditions are precisely what unions were designed to combat.
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Old 2007-10-16, 05:46   Link #10
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Japan is a land of overwork. Clash of interests, who will win? The ones with money, or the ones with the talent?

If the union gets too demanding, there's always Korea. Some Korean studios help in the animation of some series' nowadays right? This may be their big break. Plus, they aren't unionized yet (ergo, easier to exploit). Let them step out of Japan's shadow. The challenge is to prevent the Koreans from forming unions of their own. I guess making them sign yellow dogs would solve that

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Old 2007-10-16, 08:54   Link #11
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But the desperate and ready to be exploited masses in Korea aren't that desperate and ready to be exploited anymore either. There is of course still North Korea. Or Mozambique.

Sooner or later we'll see real handiwork only in movies, maybe OVAs if they will still exist. But it will become too expensive for TV in the medium term. They will go full CGI.
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Old 2007-10-16, 12:05   Link #12
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Who cares about retail price? Fansubs are free anyway.
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Old 2007-10-16, 12:45   Link #13
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But the desperate and ready to be exploited masses in Korea aren't that desperate and ready to be exploited anymore either. There is of course still North Korea. Or Mozambique.

Sooner or later we'll see real handiwork only in movies, maybe OVAs if they will still exist. But it will become too expensive for TV in the medium term. They will go full CGI.
there is still vietnam and china.

a lot of the new anime if you look at the creidt have vietnamese names on the credit.
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Old 2007-10-16, 14:52   Link #14
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like Nguyen van thrang or? lol
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Old 2007-10-16, 15:01   Link #15
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@InternalBrain

just notice your age and I thought old man Vexx and the Lolipedo Tanuki is old.

But yeat that is what i talking about. The CLaymore Credit has whole of Vietnamese names on the credit and i heard that one of the Japanese animation studio is opening a branch in China (forgot where). This out sourcing is only going to grow.
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Old 2007-10-16, 18:17   Link #16
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Originally Posted by Branduil View Post
Well, it's probably a good thing for the poor animators who get paid almost nothing right now.

This will make anime more expensive to produce, most likely, so it could be that less anime gets made.
It would be good... if the animation work stayed in Japan, but if the animation and direction gets moved to, say, China, then the Unionization won't have helped the workers in the end, with just a few highly paid workers, and a great many totally unemployed former workers...
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Old 2007-10-16, 18:19   Link #17
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It would be good... if the animation work stayed in Japan, but if the animation and direction gets moved to, say, China, then the Unionization won't have helped the workers in the end, with just a few highly paid workers, and a great many totally unemployed former workers...
those workers are going to be unemployed either way. Out sourcing is already here and will stay. Those workers are on the out, just a matter of when.
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Old 2007-10-16, 18:38   Link #18
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Who cares about retail price? Fansubs are free anyway.
I'll try to pretend you aren't a leech who is proud to be a drain on our hobby as I attempt to answer your question.

You should care about retail price because marketing and profits are what allows anime to be made. If this raises costs so that they have to raise price then they will sell fewer units and there will be less willingness to make new shows. Remember that this is a business.

Even if you don't spend a cent on anime, it will still affect you.
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Old 2007-10-16, 22:39   Link #19
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The anime "budget" is actually not the real reason why animators get paid so little.
It's because the middle man, the sinister "Dentsuu", takes out insane chunks from the budget.

Here's a chart example.


Sponsor puts out $500k for the anime budget.
Dentsuu and the TV studio eats up chunks of it, leaving only $80k for the actual production budget. Workers pay comes out of this also.
The real problem is the middle man taking away majority of it and leaving nothing for the workers.
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Old 2007-10-17, 01:41   Link #20
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Yeah, that's why I heard (note: HEARD) that the money you pay from DVDs is most likely to go to the advertising companies/producers and very little trickles down to the people who actually make the thing. Because the sad thing is most of these creative people probably wouldn't have been able to make anything commercial if it wasn't for those executives.

But I think that is why companies that stay afloat either do a. a lot of very popular shows or b. try to create original properties produced by them so that more money will go to them. You would get more of the earnings if you create your own thing rather than being hired to animate someone else's project... but original works are much more likely to flop because there are no prior fans.

Doesn't stop me from wanting to buy the DVDs though - especially for shows like Dennou Coil, where I should think a good amount of the money goes to Iso and co. (he's done half the damn anime himself, the way I see it). It's very modest on advertising, especially for a primetime show, and even more so when compared to super-ultra-mega-plus ad shows like Code Geass which just don't die in the magazines... And it's a miracle how that show has, to date, not outsourced a single bit of animation: not even the paint. It's efforts like that which make me have soaring faith in some people in the anime industry. (Insert ray of sunlight)


I really wonder how the hell animation studios themselves make any money though - how do they stay afloat as companies? I think the ones that do push on very strong either have innovative business deals and a small but highly dedicated workforce (Production I.G.?), do 24920490292049 things on a generally low budget and some of them happen to work (J.C. Staff? Maybe Madhouse although they fund many creative projects too), grab the biggest mega hits and get something out of those (Pierrot?), have ties with a lot of $ (Sunrise)... but what about studios like BONES? I guess good studios have execs who know how to wrangle out more money for the studio and less for the middleman? Maybe BONES has a special contract with MBS...
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