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View Poll Results: Regios - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 15 20.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 35.14%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 28.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 9.46%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 5.41%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.35%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-11, 03:38   Link #201
danin8r44
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I never said it did. I was talking about his skills. Which is obviously important to the team. That's important information.

The fact that he didn't share his past simply means that they're not very close. Which means that Nina can't trust him with her back, since he's explicitly said that he'll do anything to survive, including maiming his allies (they were on the same "team"... against the bugs. Remember the bugs? Maiming candidates for HB means he just took away a potentially significant fighter).
What we see from Layfon is a strong desire to protect what he wants to protect and a will to crush anything that threatens it. This kind of thinking isn't odd for someone who had a hard life when they were very little. However, this does not mean that he is unreliable in battle. Quite the contrary, this type of personality is much better suited for a warrior than a strong idealsim similar to the one which Nina posesses. It says that as a subordinate he will carry out his mission without being held back by moral dilemas, and that he will not betray you as long as you don't threaten what he needs to protect (which should be near impossible as a military exists to protect the state and he protected Zuellini meaning there is no conflict in what he and the military wish to protect). This (and his godlike strength) mean that he is perfectly suited for any platoon.

Admittedly, his participation in underground fighting does break with his duty as a military man in favor of the orphanage. Yet, because of the orphanage he was arguably less likely than any of the other HB to maim an ally or to betray anyone because this could have reprecussions for the orphanage.

The "maiming of allies" is taken out of context. Layfon maimed a man in a contest where (by all I've seen) maiming a man is perfectly legal. The man he injured could not be considered an ally in any real context anyway, as he was entirely motivated by selfish desires to get the HB and not by any real desire to protect the people of the city (of everyone in CSR so far he was by far the most likely to betray and maim allies without provocation). Layfon has shown again and again that his allies are many, many times safer with him at their back than him not there at all.

Thus Nina's decision to remove Layfon from her team is either based on an idea that is inherently incorrect, or a selfish desire to remove a person who's ideals differ from hers from her presence so that her own ideals won't get shattered (ie. when she learned how futile and pointless the dead city's "victory" was).

Hurray for long posts and again im not hating Nina or trying to defend Layfon to my last breath. Just putting up some thoughts that crossed my mind.
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Old 2009-03-11, 03:55   Link #202
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Finally got to watch ep 9 and I realized something at the end.

That line of Nina ("We shouldn't be in the same platoon"), I don't think she's going to literally mean it.

I take it as a precursor of more insights to come, and kicking Layfon out of the team would be properly implausible and very insensible even to Nina herself no matter how she thinks she should do it... because reasons are there.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:03   Link #203
Clarste
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Originally Posted by danin8r44 View Post
Hurray for long posts and again im not hating Nina or trying to defend Layfon to my last breath. Just putting up some thoughts that crossed my mind.
I'm kinda the same way: I'm trying to look at it from Nina's perspective. I just didn't like all the Nina hate going around in the thread and tried to show why it's not unreasonable for her to do what she's doing. I also don't think there's any "hidden" evidence which would change her opinion on the situation. It's not simply a misunderstanding, and she's not jumping to conclusions. She's not entirely right either, but I don't think she's being an idiot or anything like that.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:07   Link #204
TrueKnight
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I’ve posted this kind of thing in another thread but I’ll post it again.

What parts of Layfon were considered ‘uncooperative’? In terms of professionalism so far he did his job properly within Zuellni’s jurisdiction as a platoon member. He asked Felli for help in episode 5 for surveillance, he trusted Nina enough for her to act as bait in episode 7, he followed his orders well in episode well to let himself act as bait. He did his job. I could not find any proof that Layfon didn’t do his duties as platoon member that could be considered as ‘uncooperative’.

The issues regarding his ‘crimes’ here are where did this happen? His ‘crimes’ were conducted in Grendan. When? It’s in the past. Why did he do it? He did those to help his orphanage Was he wrong? Yes, he was considered wrong within Grendan and guilty as charged, and he already received his punishment, which was a complete exile.

Now he venture to a new city to start a new life. Within Zuellni, no Grendan anymore, different set of rules and conducts. Things went well and he’s being a good kid when suddenly some idiot revealed his past ‘crimes’. Then our squad captain here Nina decides bring it up front and blame him for misconduct of which he had been punished.

Professionally and normally Layfon did nothing wrong while he’s in Zuellni. The questions here actually are his moral stands, he maintain the very same mindset he has from Grendan.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:10   Link #205
Wargumm1i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
Finally got to watch ep 9 and I realized something at the end.

That line of Nina ("We shouldn't be in the same platoon"), I don't think she's going to literally mean it.

I take it as a precursor of more insights to come, and kicking Layfon out of the team would be properly implausible and very insensible even to Nina herself no matter how she thinks she should do it... because reasons are there.
Lol indeed, even if Nina doesnt share Layfon´s way of thinking, that isint enough to kick him off the team.

I mean even if its her, the others including Felli would not stand for it. I mean im even forseeing Felli leaving the platoon with Layfon.

Still if and when Layfon leaves the Platoon, all the others platoons will be all over him lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
I’ve posted this kind of thing in another thread but I’ll post it again.

What parts of Layfon were considered ‘uncooperative’? In terms of professionalism so far he did his job properly within Zuellni’s jurisdiction as a platoon member. He asked Felli for help in episode 5 for surveillance, he trusted Nina enough for her to act as bait in episode 7, he followed his orders well in episode well to let himself act as bait. He did his job. I could not find any proof that Layfon didn’t do his duties as platoon member that could be considered as ‘uncooperative’.

The issues regarding his ‘crimes’ here are where did this happen? His ‘crimes’ were conducted in Grendan. When? It’s in the past. Why did he do it? He did those to help his orphanage Was he wrong? Yes, he was considered wrong within Grendan and guilty as charged, and he already received his punishment, which was a complete exile.

Now he venture to a new city to start a new life. Within Zuellni, no Grendan anymore, different set of rules and conducts. Things went well and he’s being a good kid when suddenly some idiot revealed his past ‘crimes’. Then our squad captain here Nina decides bring it up front and blame him for misconduct of which he had been punished.

Professionally and normally Layfon did nothing wrong while he’s in Zuellni. The questions here actually are his moral stands, he maintain the very same mindset he has from Grendan.
Thats correct for a person like Layfon who was given 2 choices in life, too fight and get strong or too be weak and die. So just think being trained from a very young age, i mean who knows perhaps he was 3-4 years old when he started for god sake, and at the age of 10 he was killing huge Filth monsters the size of who knows the White house all alone.

So even if you try and remain pure hearted after all that which is almost impossible because for Layfon who fought and killed creatures too protect the things he cared about and the things that meant everything to him, gave him the powerful killing intent which could kill emotions when needed to kill.

And when a human fool like Gahard tried too push Layfon too a desperate point where he had too choose between the things he loved and cared about and the things that was helping him support the things he loved and cared about, so for Layfon who knew only how to fight and kill and was doing that for the most peroid of his life, gave him the killing intent and he used the only method he knew and used the opportunity too do that during the match, but obviously he either failed or was still too kind too take the life of a human unlike Filth monsters.

Last edited by Wargumm1i; 2009-03-11 at 04:32.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:24   Link #206
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LOL, not even the rest of her team mates, it's also very un-Nina-like if she made that kind of decision.

It's simple:

- First, she was the one who willingly took him under her wing into the platoon, so she should be responsible for his conditions while he stays under her leadership. If Layfon joined the platoon within his own will then that'll be another story.
- Since Nina has known the whole story from Gorneo with a little bit more revelation from Layfon, she should've known why Layfon cut off Gahard's arm, and there are parts in both Layfon's and Gorneo's story she can actually concur and can justify some of it even though it was a horrible thing to be done.
- As how pushy she might be, she's not that rash and kicking him out from the team would be a very immature decision, she herself can realize that.
- And, finally, she still needs Layfon's strength. If she kicks him out then her efforts to have him for the team would all go to waste.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:35   Link #207
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
Now he venture to a new city to start a new life. Within Zuellni, no Grendan anymore, different set of rules and conducts. Things went well and he’s being a good kid when suddenly some idiot revealed his past ‘crimes’. Then our squad captain here Nina decides bring it up front and blame him for misconduct of which he had been punished.

Professionally and normally Layfon did nothing wrong while he’s in Zuellni. The questions here actually are his moral stands, he maintain the very same mindset he has from Grendan.
I didn't see any indication that she was blaming him for his past. The problem she has with him is his philosophy, which is unchanged since his past, and that she had already been having problems with since before his past was revealed. The details of his past don't matter, except insofar as what they say about who he is. And, by his own account, he doesn't regret what he did. It simply followed naturally from how he lives his life. Whether or not he's been punished for it is irrelevant.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:47   Link #208
TrueKnight
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How do you judge a person? By his moral or his action? So far Layfon had not done anything wrong in Zuellni. It's actually the opposite, he saved their ass several times and if weren't for him they'd be bug food by now. as long he's doing his job properly and saving the city and his teammates. He can not be blamed.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:48   Link #209
Fevvers
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I'm kinda the same way: I'm trying to look at it from Nina's perspective. I just didn't like all the Nina hate going around in the thread and tried to show why it's not unreasonable for her to do what she's doing. I also don't think there's any "hidden" evidence which would change her opinion on the situation. It's not simply a misunderstanding, and she's not jumping to conclusions. She's not entirely right either, but I don't think she's being an idiot or anything like that.
That's what I think as well. For the position she's in, being the platoon leader and all, and having no means of finding out the whole truth either at the moment, I thought her action was logical and understandable. Not that it matters much for most people here though, as they tend to overreact on anything Nina-related and overly lenient on anything that involves Layfon.

Last edited by Fevvers; 2009-03-11 at 05:16.
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Old 2009-03-11, 04:57   Link #210
Clarste
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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
How do you judge a person? By his moral or his action? So far Layfon had not done anything wrong in Zuellni. It's actually the opposite, he saved their ass several times and if weren't for him they'd be bug food by now. as long he's doing his job properly and saving the city and his teammates. He can not be blamed.
Er...both? If I told you that I'll do everything in my power to save everyone I meet, and show you the same with my actions, but then later add that I'll kill anyone named "Bob" for some reason, you'd probably be hesitant to introduce me to your friend Bob. Well, that's a weird example... but the point is that just becomes someone saves your life doesn't mean they're a saint. You want her to blindly follow him? Heck, she's being respectful and not denying his beliefs, merely disagreeing. It's not like she's exiling him from the city, she's just realized that their ideologies are too different and can't work with him.

And its not like his actions don't show his morals. He's already done several things showing his attitude (refusing to fight in the platoon matches for one) and she now has new evidence in the form of his past, which he did not deny or even seem to regret. All evidence points to him being the person he says he is, so why should she ignore his words? His own words, mind you. It's not like she's misunderstanding him, she's reacting to his own statements about himself and his actions.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:38   Link #211
Enternal
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Originally Posted by danin8r44 View Post
The "maiming of allies" is taken out of context. Layfon maimed a man in a contest where (by all I've seen) maiming a man is perfectly legal. The man he injured could not be considered an ally in any real context anyway, as he was entirely motivated by selfish desires to get the HB and not by any real desire to protect the people of the city (of everyone in CSR so far he was by far the most likely to betray and maim allies without provocation). Layfon has shown again and again that his allies are many, many times safer with him at their back than him not there at all.

Thus Nina's decision to remove Layfon from her team is either based on an idea that is inherently incorrect, or a selfish desire to remove a person who's ideals differ from hers from her presence so that her own ideals won't get shattered (ie. when she learned how futile and pointless the dead city's "victory" was).

Hurray for long posts and again im not hating Nina or trying to defend Layfon to my last breath. Just putting up some thoughts that crossed my mind.
Just to be clear, he attempted to kill the guy and not simply maim the guy although to the audience, it might seem like he is only trying to maim the guy.

There's a reason why she wants him out of her platoon. It's simply because of their clashing ideals, it could get in their way of the entire group performance rather than just because it's not similar to hers. So far each of the member of the platoon does not really have similar ideals but since it does not get in the way of group performance, she has no problems. However, she got hasty and thought that his ideals might ruin the performance and thus hastily decided that he should not be in the platoon.

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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
How do you judge a person? By his moral or his action? So far Layfon had not done anything wrong in Zuellni. It's actually the opposite, he saved their ass several times and if weren't for him they'd be bug food by now. as long he's doing his job properly and saving the city and his teammates. He can not be blamed.
That is giving him too much power don't you think? As long as he saves people and help his teammates, he can do whatever he wants and cannot be blamed.

Also, Nina said "We shouldn't be in the same platoon," therefore I take it that it's her sentiments but she won't find a way to kick him off the team so lets not go around and change that to "Nina decided to kick Layfon off the team" or whatnot and keep the facts.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:40   Link #212
Tjaard
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Since Nina is the platoon's leader is logical that she begin to doubt of Layfon behavior, because if he does something to survive that harms the reputation of the team for her is bad, you need to remember that this is her dream and Layfon told her that is useless until there are FM, however she said "It might be that we shouldn't be in the same platoon", so she began to think that their way of thinking will never come to an agreement and that this could damage their teamwork, but i think that all these recent discoveries confusing and destroy her way of thinking, so i think is normal begin to doubt.
But all we know that is impossible that she can kick Layfon away, because our favorite siscon SCP doesn't ever allow it
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:45   Link #213
TrueKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste
Er...both?
Nice, but unfortunately idealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste
If I told you that I'll do everything in my power to save everyone I meet, and show you the same with my actions, but then later add that I'll kill anyone named "Bob" for some reason, you'd probably be hesitant to introduce me to your friend Bob. Well, that's a weird example... but the point is that just becomes someone saves your life doesn't mean they're a saint.
You’re bringing up an example, then please allow me to give you mine,

There’s this rapist or criminal, being transferred in a ship thats currently sailing in sea. The ship is filled with passengers and civilians. Suddenly the ship’s security recently finds out that the ship is loaded with a time bomb inside its engine room and attached to the engine, cannot be removed, set to blew up in 30 minutes, which would automatically kills all the civilian on board immediately.

The rapist despite his current situation is actually a former bomb disposal expert, and none other than him is actually capable on disarming the bomb.

So what will the ship’s crew do?

a. Ask the rapist to disarm the bomb saving the civilian?

b. Hell no, I’d rather die than ask a rapist to save us.

CSR’s case, a bit different with same result,

Fon-fon was criminal, coming to Zuellni to start a new life. Acting heroic and saving the city. His past is finally known by his squad, Nina and the city, they expelled him from the squad just because she discriminate his way of thinking and not for his action. Suddenly the city is under siege with countless of high-class bugs. None other than Fon-fon will be able to beat it and running is not an option.

So what will the city or Nina do?

a. Ask Fon-fon for help saving the city, the squad and its civillian?

b. Hell No, We’d rather die in glory than ask him to help us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste
You want her to blindly follow him? Heck, she's being respectful and not denying his beliefs, merely disagreeing. It's not like she's exiling him from the city, she's just realized that their ideologies are too different and can't work with him.
Where do I state this? I merely want her to leave him alone for his ideals. If she were to bitch about it, at least learn about it first before start talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste
And its not like his actions don't show his morals. He's already done several things showing his attitude (refusing to fight in the platoon matches for one) and she now has new evidence in the form of his past, which he did not deny or even seem to regret. All evidence points to him being the person he says he is, so why should she ignore his words? His own words, mind you. It's not like she's misunderstanding him, she's reacting to his own statements about himself and his actions.
Like I said, his actions did not have to reflect his morals. Let him do his job properly and as long he didn’t violates bother or violate the rules, then he’s fine the way he is.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:48   Link #214
noxian
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Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
- As how pushy she might be, she's not that rash and kicking him out from the team would be a very immature decision, she herself can realize that.
oh i don't know, actually there's plenty of evidence of Nina being fairly rash and selfish when it comes to what she wants.
when the guy quit her squad, she was pretty much ready to attack an unarmed person. you want to talk about assaulting an "ally"? even after he pointed it out, she was still about to chase after him until Harley stopped her. even if she didn't intend to literally attack him, that's definitely a threatening gesture.
her history is pretty much of her doing whatever she wants without much concern for anyone else. that's pretty much why her old captain was pissed at her if you remember the flashback.

her big problem is she's logical only within the context of her limited view and she has no desire or inclination to expand her view, which is hardly a good trait for a commander. in fact it would appear she never changed until Layfon came along. her former captain noted she hadn't changed at all when they had their inter-platoon match. she never learned anything, she just left and formed her own platoon to suit herself.

really, its actually pretty doubtful that she's acknowledging, and simply disagrees, his idealogy at all. its more in line with her history that she's simply refusing to recognize it period, and its easier for her to just "run away" from it by removing him from her squad. she doesn't have to face the questions he posed her, she doesn't have to reflect on herself, she can just continue to do her own thing mindless of anyone else.

all that having been said, i don't actually dislike Nina, actually I like her a lot. she shows a lot of the same flaws you get in a lot of male protagonists, but she actually gets some reasons for it, some development for it.
it all falls in place, it all makes sense. She's plenty wrong (not that Layfon doesn't have his own issues), but who isn't in life.
more importantly her flaws make a good mirror for Layfon. He's a guy who did everything for other people (he fought, in theory, for grendan. he made money for his orphanage. its clear he didn't keep any of the money for himself) but did it in a fairly...solitary, self-serving fashion (for lack of a better way to put it). and she's a girl who spends her life living out this ideal of honor and service, but really does nothing for anyone but herself and maybe faeries.
the way i see it, she's not someone to dislike. its the clashes of characters like her and Layfon that make for a good story. well, clashes and resolutions, and since we haven't seen the resolution yet, we can't judge that.

as far as whether Layfon will really get kicked out, beyond the obvious fact that he's the central character, Nina's somewhat overlooking the fact that she needed him, he didn't need her. specifically, its her squad that lost a member in the beginning of the series, and implications were, was under the required member number. and to top it off, it sounded like her platoon had already developed somewhat of a reputation and was getting borderline blacklisted from any possibility of new members.
so in short she'd be pretty much dissolving her own squad by removing him.
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Old 2009-03-11, 05:56   Link #215
Enternal
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Originally Posted by noxian View Post
oh i don't know, actually there's plenty of evidence of Nina being fairly rash and selfish when it comes to what she wants.
when the guy quit her squad, she was pretty much ready to attack an unarmed person. you want to talk about assaulting an "ally"? even after he pointed it out, she was still about to chase after him until Harley stopped her. even if she didn't intend to literally attack him, that's definitely a threatening gesture.
her history is pretty much of her doing whatever she wants without much concern for anyone else. that's pretty much why her old captain was pissed at her if you remember the flashback.

her big problem is she's logical only within the context of her limited view and she has no desire or inclination to expand her view, which is hardly a good trait for a commander. in fact it would appear she never changed until Layfon came along. her former captain noted she hadn't changed at all when they had their inter-platoon match. she never learned anything, she just left and formed her own platoon to suit herself.

really, its actually pretty doubtful that she's acknowledging, and simply disagrees, his idealogy at all. its more in line with her history that she's simply refusing to recognize it period, and its easier for her to just "run away" from it by removing him from her squad. she doesn't have to face the questions he posed her, she doesn't have to reflect on herself, she can just continue to do her own thing mindless of anyone else.

all that having been said, i don't actually dislike Nina, actually I like her a lot. she shows a lot of the same flaws you get in a lot of male protagonists, but she actually gets some reasons for it, some development for it.
it all falls in place, it all makes sense. She's plenty wrong (not that Layfon doesn't have his own issues), but who isn't in life.
more importantly her flaws make a good mirror for Layfon. He's a guy who did everything for other people (he fought, in theory, for grendan. he made money for his orphanage. its clear he didn't keep any of the money for himself) but did it in a fairly...solitary, self-serving fashion (for lack of a better way to put it). and she's a girl who spends her life living out this ideal of honor and service, but really does nothing for anyone but herself and maybe faeries.
the way i see it, she's not someone to dislike. its the clashes of characters like her and Layfon that make for a good story. well, clashes and resolutions, and since we haven't seen the resolution yet, we can't judge that.

as far as whether Layfon will really get kicked out, beyond the obvious fact that he's the central character, Nina's somewhat overlooking the fact that she needed him, he didn't need her. specifically, its her squad that lost a member in the beginning of the series, and implications were, was under the required member number. and to top it off, it sounded like her platoon had already developed somewhat of a reputation and was getting borderline blacklisted from any possibility of new members.
so in short she'd be pretty much dissolving her own squad by removing him.
I don't think she will kick him out at all since all she stated was more of her sentiments rather than definite action. Overall, though, I agree with how you feel about her. She is someone definitely can improve as a character since she and Layfon are people who so far seems to build each other up although Layfon not initially but seems to now since he starts to question his own past actions. Rather, in a way they complement each other since what Layfon has Nina doesn't and vice versa. Having a balance is always a good thing and I can see that these two can provide that as well as developing each other. About her reflecting on herself though I disagree. I think she does reflect on herself to an extent because if she did not, she would not have overcome her inferior complex with Layfon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
Where do I state this? I merely want her to leave him alone for his ideals. If she were to bitch about it, at least learn about it first before start talking.
That could actually be a part of Layfon's fault since while they were discussing, he did not let out any more info than that which makes Nina think that is all there is to the story when it's actually not.

---------

This is what I think. Nina represent ideals. Layfon represents reality.

Ideals is what we all strive for to make things better. Reality is what actually happens. However, there is a need for both. Being to idealistic goes no where but the same applies for being way to realistic becuase there is nothing to strive for. An example is:

Everyone does not lie to each other. Reality however says otherwise. If you are overly realistic, since everyone lies and that's how the world goes, you might as well lie. If you are overly idealistic, you will probably feel anger and disappointment because that's now how the real world is.

Now if there is a balance, you know and accept that reality is not as great as you think but being a bit idealistic as well, you still strive to be someone who does not lie and that improves the world around us.

I don't know if I am able to get he message across because I'm not always great at doing this but I sure hope it means at least something.

Overall though, I don't agree with either Layfon or Nina. Nina wants people to think like her too much while Layfon does not really think of what others think which could be more devastating than he thought.
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Last edited by Enternal; 2009-03-11 at 06:08.
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:00   Link #216
TrueKnight
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Originally Posted by Enternal
As long as he saves people and help his teammates, he can do whatever he wants and cannot be blamed.
Did he violate any of the rules while in Zuellni? Nope, he's being a good kid.

You could have different sexual orientation, beliefs, religions or ideals. As long you're not violating the current rules or doing mischievous stuffs, within the current premises or period and not including your previous deed, you can not simply be blamed. Differrent place and time, different set of rules.
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:14   Link #217
Enternal
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Originally Posted by TrueKnight View Post
Did he violate any of the rules while in Zuellni? Nope, he's being a good kid.
I'm mainly trying to say that the issue that Nina has is with Layfon's ideals and philosophy than rather what he did in his past. If I met a robber, there is two ways I could be mad at him. I could be mad at him because he robbed my house. I could also be mad at him because of his thoughts that robbing houses is fine.

Otherwise, yes Layfon is currently being a good kid but his ideals and philosophy is an issue here.
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:38   Link #218
danin8r44
The King of the Insane
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
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This is what I think. Nina represent ideals. Layfon represents reality.

Ideals is what we all strive for to make things better. Reality is what actually happens. However, there is a need for both. Being to idealistic goes no where but the same applies for being way to realistic becuase there is nothing to strive for. An example is:

Everyone does not lie to each other. Reality however says otherwise. If you are overly realistic, since everyone lies and that's how the world goes, you might as well lie. If you are overly idealistic, you will probably feel anger and disappointment because that's now how the real world is.

Now if there is a balance, you know and accept that reality is not as great as you think but being a bit idealistic as well, you still strive to be someone who does not lie and that improves the world around us.

I don't know if I am able to get he message across because I'm not always great at doing this but I sure hope it means at least something.

Overall though, I don't agree with either Layfon or Nina. Nina wants people to think like her too much while Layfon does not really think of what others think which could be more devastating than he thought.
Well said, I agree. Both are too polarized and part of this show will likely be Nina realizing how pure ideals, and hopefully her stubboness and agressiveness, are meaningless without rationalism and calm premeditation. Layfon will learn that it isn't bad to lighten up on his strict realism.

It feels like Felli can only mature a little more from this point on. As for Leerin, she seems like the only one of the main characters who has a perfectly sound head. (If you discount the foxish thing in it)
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:43   Link #219
holyman282
Snape: "I hate Potter!"
 
 
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Everyone must perceive this through the context of the story. Let's consider the scenario, the world is polluted except for a few domed cities, which in itself is constantly attacked by filth monsters. Basically the world in which Layfon and others exist is a world where people's lives are constantly at risk and could end in a most horrible way. In fact Layfon when defending Zuelleni by killing the mother of the filth monsters a few ep back even stated that this is the world in which they live in.

So I ask you that in a world where people face the harshest of conditions, where their lives are in danger at every turn, why are there still people existing in these circumstances? This is due to the innate instinct of a person to survive, whether individually or through cooperation.

Now let me ask you this, in those sorts of circumstances would you yourself not do anything possible to survive? Would anyone hold onto those idealistic views that Nina has? What are her views anyway? From this ep all I can see is that she places military arts over everything else in terms of importance. Many people think from watching this ep that her ideals are the "all for one and one for all" concept. It's not. When did she ever say she valued teamwork? When did she say she'll risk her own life to save another's?

Nina's ideals are similar to Layfon's but no way as practical. Where as Layfon fights to live, she fights to win. We've seen that mentality from the beginning of ep 1 where she would disobey her previous captain's orders in order to try to capture the flag of the opposing regios city. Or the fact that she'd get excited whenever her platoon seems to be doing well without taking into consideration the feelings of her squad.

People who support Nina say that her ideals, being opposite to Layfon's are the more altruistic type but in fact her's are the most selfish. She fights not out of necessity, which is what made Layfon fight, but for the sheer purpose that she places military arts on a pedestal and worships it and enjoys the feeling of victory. Now how can one compare the two and come to the conclusion that Layfon's ideals are bad and that Nina's are right?
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Old 2009-03-11, 06:47   Link #220
Wargumm1i
Jinchuuriki
 
 
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The thing is about Nina is that she has lived a decent life and had alot of choices since she lived In a decent city that never had to worry much about Bug problems which was proven when they got there first wave of little larvas.

So that mostly will make her an idealist who hasen´t gotten a good look at the world, and not seen it for it truly is.

And that is one of the parts that most of the people here posting on the topic are pissed about is that she does see the world for what it truly is, a place where the strong eat the weak.

And I understand that people are also angry about Nina for what way she is treating him for being and having diffrent ideas and life choice, because In Nina´s case she has bin I living a life without any real worrys and has bin following a path which she clearly underestimated and always believed she was really strong until she met Layfon who proved otherwise that she was weak and left her insecure about her own strenght.

And when she met Layfon she met someone who has seen the world and knows it for what it truly is, and when she knew about Layfons past which she didint until now and she did not like it and understand it, which led her to think that they should not be on the same team.

Well its basically to say this in Nina´s case that a child understands, Nina never knew the world and what it truly is, and which is no diffrent form telling a kid that santa claus doesn´t exists.
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