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View Poll Results: Regios - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 15 20.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 35.14%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 28.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 9.46%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 5.41%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.35%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-12, 18:48   Link #321
fatez
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Originally Posted by Enternal View Post
The thing with "If I was in his shoe" came more of a response to your "I wouldn't want to talk to it too if I was in his shoe?" so both of us are not Layfon. Now talking too much would be out of character for Layfon which is why I said that if he could only spoke up more than things would have been a bit better.

So in the end you are still saying that it's all Nina's fault and Layfon's not to blame? I still don't agree with you. She was biased, he could have don't something to fix that. She could have been more careful. He could have explain more to help. The part where you underline is exactly where he could have done something about it.

Overall, there are things that both could have done to solve the issue but none of them did that and thus, they are now having issues not only in their ideals, but in trying to solve a problem.

Sure, it is Nina's fault.

1. She is the one picking the fight not Layfon. You don't see Layfon going around questioning's everybody philosophy and making a big deal of it, when apparently there is no problem going on.


2. Nina, is the one not tolerant of Layfon, but Layfon has no problem with Nina.

3. How much more talking does Layfon needs to do? you keep saying that he needs to talk more, but how much talking is needed? From my earlier post and the conversation, Nina wouldn't have changed her mind.

Layfon: ... to live
Nina: ... to live
Layfon: To keep living in the orphanage, I needed money, no matter what. I did what I could for that.
Nina: While doing so, you tainted the Heavens Blade? Insulting Military Arts, and the one who tried to reveal it?
Layfon: Heavens Blade and military arts are the only things needed to live. I mastered military arts because I needed them to live. I tried to become strong in order to survive. That's it.
Nina: even so... You say you'll do anything to live?
Layfon: is that wrong? Is there anything you won't do to stay alive?
Nina: Layfon... I won't accept it. Not that way of thinking.
Layfon: I guess you won't. It's the same as my friends in the orphanage, except for one.


Look at the things I highligted. Nina has mind set on Layfon being wrong with his philosophy. Layfon recognizes this fact, and stops talking because he felt that it is no use.

So asking the question, what has Layfon done wrong? The answer is nothing. I repeat, what his did in the past is debatedably a mistake, i would've done the samething, but, as of current he has done nothing wrong. IT is Nina that causing a rift in the group.
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Old 2009-03-12, 18:56   Link #322
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Nina is naive, I hope Layfon leaves the group and kicks her butt in the platoon matches making her emo again for the rest of her life.
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Old 2009-03-12, 19:21   Link #323
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Lets try to parallel Layfon situation to today's society.

Layfon becomes a police officer in order to make money to support himself and an orphanage. He does it only to survive. He doesn't believe the job means anything other than a way to survive. He takes no honor or pride in the position of an officer. In so doing, he does other illegal things on the side of his job to support himself. Now when the people in the orphanage find out that the man they thought of as a role model for them was doing these things don't you think they'd be upset? Don't you think they have a right? Especially since he's saying that he did it for them but kept it secret without trying to understand how they would feel.

Now those people kicked him out of his job and sent him away. Now he goes to a new city trying to start over. Now he gets into a similar job like his last one and while doing that job they find out about his past. Don't you think they have a reason to question his morals? Nina didn't dig into his past but it was brought to her attention. Why should she ignore it once it is in the open? It nice to say the past is the past but then again I don't think I'd want a child rapist going anywhere near my child.

Layfon had a hard life but that doesn't mean he gets any free passes when it comes to his actions. Most of grendan people had just of a rough life as him but they understand that their more to life that just surviving. He can live his life how he choices but that doesn't mean people have to like it or support it especially when it can be detrimental to them.
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Old 2009-03-12, 19:28   Link #324
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Wow, a VERY revealing episode that left me wondering and thinking and wondering and thinking over and over again. First off, Nina may want out of the 17th Platoon?!?! Holy cow! I feel the relationship between Layfon and Felli is getting stronger and stronger and I think she likes him, but he may be thinking about Leerin, who is definatly thinking of him....

Savarice was awesome, this guy is friggen legit and a BA villain who tore up that Garun Vallen guy, that was sweet to watch, but I wonder who those two guys in the alley were, they seemed to be discussing someon important????

And one of the biggest moments of the episode, if not the entire series, was that Layfon abused the honor of owning a Heavens Blade (I think the episode has been out long enough for me to reveal that), Layfon is NOT the goodie two-shoes we thought he was after all!!!

And last but not least, Nina is a sour soul and a complainer. I just thought i'd add that in, hehe.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:09   Link #325
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Lets try to parallel Layfon situation to today's society.

Layfon becomes a police officer in order to make money to support himself and an orphanage. He does it only to survive. He doesn't believe the job means anything other than a way to survive. He takes no honor or pride in the position of an officer. In so doing, he does other illegal things on the side of his job to support himself. Now when the people in the orphanage find out that the man they thought of as a role model for them was doing these things don't you think they'd be upset? Don't you think they have a right? Especially since he's saying that he did it for them but kept it secret without trying to understand how they would feel.

Now those people kicked him out of his job and sent him away. Now he goes to a new city trying to start over. Now he gets into a similar job like his last one and while doing that job they find out about his past. Don't you think they have a reason to question his morals? Nina didn't dig into his past but it was brought to her attention. Why should she ignore it once it is in the open? It nice to say the past is the past but then again I don't think I'd want a child rapist going anywhere near my child.

Layfon had a hard life but that doesn't mean he gets any free passes when it comes to his actions. Most of grendan people had just of a rough life as him but they understand that their more to life that just surviving. He can live his life how he choices but that doesn't mean people have to like it or support it especially when it can be detrimental to them.


So you are comparing a near apocalyptic world where few humans survive, and resources is very very limited to our world where we don't have to face extinction, poverty (well maybe the western world), threat to our well being, with all the modern luxury to theirs? Sure that make sense.

And you dare say, put him in our world? If you do that, Layfon will be a super star. Not to mention with his athletic skills, he will be paid millions of dollars and living the good life, and has enough left to take care many orphanage over. So, I fail to see your comparison.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:20   Link #326
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So you are comparing a near apocalyptic world where few humans survive, and resources is very very limited to our world where we don't have to face extinction, poverty (well maybe the western world), threat to our well being, with all the modern luxury to theirs? Sure that make sense.

And you dare say, put him in our world? If you do that, Layfon will be a super star. Not to mention with his athletic skills, he will be paid millions of dollars and living the good life, and has enough left to take care many orphanage over. So, I fail to see your comparison.
Oh please get off the guys penis he doesn't need you all over it. Being in a near apocalyptic world doesn't stop the rest of Grendan, Zuellni, etc. from having morals so why does it Layfon? Stop trying to take cast blame on his world. We all chose what we make of ourselves in life. If your poor doesn't mean you have the right to steal. Sure, I can understand why you'd do it but that doesn't mean you still aren't a criminal and deserving of anything that happens to you because of it.

Think logically without your rabid fanboyism of him getting in the way and maybe you'd stop failing.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:33   Link #327
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Oh please get off the guys penis he doesn't need you all over it. Being in a near apocalyptic world doesn't stop the rest of Grendan, Zuellni, etc. from having morals so why does it Layfon? Stop trying to take cast blame on his world. We all chose what we make of ourselves in life. If your poor doesn't mean you have the right to steal. Sure, I can understand why you'd do it but that doesn't mean you still aren't a criminal and deserving of anything that happens to you because of it.

Think logically without your rabid fanboyism of him getting in the way and maybe you'd stop failing.
Don't get mad and using personal attack when you are trying to compare apple to orange and somebody points that out. Maybe if you would argue my points that I put forward, then we can have debate. Calling me fanboy, and using crude remarks, get people to not take you seriously. And that's why you fail.

Sure, you have a good point about him stealing, which makes him a criminal. I'm not arguing about that. Layfon was convicted for that crime and was exile? Now, you have somebody who is trying to convict him of a crime which he does not commit?

Let me put your example under scrutiny. So, a person who steal for food (because he needs it to survive, is undoubtedly a criminal.) No doubt. Because he broke the law. And yes he should be punished, which in Layfon's case he was a exile. Now, you have another person after a few months, who comes in and say you are wrong after your punishment, and say that you shouldn't have stole that food. And because you stole that food in the past, it makes you bad people. Therefore, people like you shouldn't be associated. In their opinion, you should've not steal that food and starve. She says, she can't understand why you would do something like that. It makes perfect sense to her because she is never hungry or starved, but to you......... WTF is her problem???


So, not only he was put on trial a second time for his crime, in which the United States would be against that, also known as double jeopardy, he is forced to listen to this lecture from a person with bias, unclear information, and self absorbing. Where is the fair trial? Where is the impartial juries? If you want to talk law, Layfon did not get a fair trial from Nina.
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Last edited by fatez; 2009-03-12 at 20:49.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:37   Link #328
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Oh please get off the guys penis he doesn't need you all over it. Being in a near apocalyptic world doesn't stop the rest of Grendan, Zuellni, etc. from having morals so why does it Layfon? Stop trying to take cast blame on his world. We all chose what we make of ourselves in life. If your poor doesn't mean you have the right to steal. Sure, I can understand why you'd do it but that doesn't mean you still aren't a criminal and deserving of anything that happens to you because of it.

Think logically without your rabid fanboyism of him getting in the way and maybe you'd stop failing.
I hate rabid "fanboy's", I do like your points though and agree 100%.

I would hate to see this thread full derailed though, so maybe someone should put it back on track, I will nominate myself!!

So who saw the Layfon plot twist coming? I sure didnt........
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:39   Link #329
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Don't get mad and using personal attack when you are trying to compare apple to orange and somebody points that out. Maybe if you would argue my points that I put forward, then we can have debate. Calling me fanboy, and using crude remarks, get people to not take you seriously. And that's why you fail.
I think people take me much more seriously when I actually use an valid response instead of spewing fanboy statements of how great Layfon and how much money he'd make in this world. I said nothing that anyone who has read your past statements couldn't gather in half a second. You honestly refuted nothing I said and instead try to outright dismiss my argument because it clearly shows how silly yours is.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:44   Link #330
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Btw how many episodes will there be? 24-26?
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:47   Link #331
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Btw how many episodes will there be? 24-26?
24 is the word on the street.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:50   Link #332
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I feel they can tell a great story with 24 episodes, but I will be sad when it's over, I am very much enjoying this series. Episode #9 really opened up my eyes to the potential it possesses. I liked it before, but now I LOVE it, I am hoping we get dubbed DVD's someday here in the United States.
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Old 2009-03-12, 20:52   Link #333
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I think people take me much more seriously when I actually use an valid response instead of spewing fanboy statements of how great Layfon and how much money he'd make in this world. I said nothing that anyone who has read your past statements couldn't gather in half a second. You honestly refuted nothing I said and instead try to outright dismiss my argument because it clearly shows how silly yours is.

Sorry, was trying to type, but obviously, some people don't type fast as others...

Sure, you have a good point about him stealing, which makes him a criminal. I'm not arguing about that. Layfon was convicted for that crime and was exile? Now, you have somebody who is trying to convict him of a crime which he does not commit?

Let me put your example under scrutiny. So, a person who steal for food (because he needs it to survive, is undoubtedly a criminal.) No doubt. Because he broke the law. And yes he should be punished, which in Layfon's case he was a exile. Now, you have another person after a few months, who comes in and say you are wrong after your punishment, and say that you shouldn't have stole that food. And because you stole that food in the past, it makes you bad people. Therefore, people like you shouldn't be associated. In their opinion, you should've not steal that food and starve. She says, she can't understand why you would do something like that. It makes perfect sense to her because she is never hungry or starved, but to you......... WTF is her problem???


So, not only he was put on trial a second time for his crime, in which the United States would be against that, also known as double jeopardy, he is forced to listen to this lecture from a person with bias, unclear information, and self absorbing. Where is the fair trial? Where is the impartial juries? If you want to talk law, Layfon did not get a fair trial from Nina.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:03   Link #334
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I know people won't change their mind, whether you think who is right or wrong. So, I would like to end my debate by asking some questions, hopefully you guys can see my points.


1. Who started the argument about philosophy? Nina or Layfon?

2. Who was the one that is not tolerant of others? Nina or Layfon?

3. Has Layfon's action indicate that he will betray his comrade?

4. Did Nina already has bias view after hearing the story from the Gerona (sp)? Here is the transcript?

Layfon: ... to live
Nina: ... to live
Layfon: To keep living in the orphanage, I needed money, no matter what. I did what I could for that.
Nina: While doing so, you tainted the Heavens Blade? Insulting Military Arts, and the one who tried to reveal it?
Layfon: Heavens Blade and military arts are the only things needed to live. I mastered military arts because I needed them to live. I tried to become strong in order to survive. That's it.
Nina: even so... You say you'll do anything to live?
Layfon: is that wrong? Is there anything you won't do to stay alive?
Nina: Layfon... I won't accept it. Not that way of thinking.
Layfon: I guess you won't. It's the same as my friends in the orphanage, except for one.

5. Would it have helped Layfon's cases if he try explain himself more after reading the transcript and the things i highlighted?

6. Does he owe Nina an explanation of his past?

7. Did Nina gave him fair questioning?

8. Should one be obligated to explain his painful past, if somebody wants to know.

9. Lastly, if the situation would've been left alone, would their be problem within the group?

10. One more, would any group members, beside Nina, have a problem with it?


Answer those question, and I hopefully, you can come to the conclusion as me and the others.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:06   Link #335
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Let me put your example under scrutiny. So, a person who steal for food (because he needs it to survive, is undoubtedly a criminal.) No doubt. Because he broke the law. And yes he should be punished, which in Layfon's case he was a exile. Now, you have another person after a few months, who comes in and say you are wrong after your punishment, and say that you shouldn't have stole that food. And because you stole that food in the past, it makes you bad people. Therefore, people like you shouldn't be associated. In their opinion, you should've not steal that food and starve. She says, she can't understand why you would do something like that. It makes perfect sense to her because she is never hungry or starved, but to you......... WTF is her problem???
Well Nina at first couldn't understand why he'd do it but in the end she said she'd not deny his way of living. She only said she didn't think they could work together if he had the same mentality that cause him to get kicked out of Grendan. She has a different set of ideals that are vastly different than his. She has the right to decide that she doesn't like his beliefs and morals. I think she understand but understand and accept are two completely different things.


Quote:
So, not only he was put on trial a second time for his crime, in which the United States would be against that, also known as double jeopardy, he is forced to listen to this lecture from a person with bias, unclear information, and self absorbing. Where is the fair trial? Where is the impartial juries? If you want to talk law, Layfon did not get a fair trial from Nina.
I don't think she ever lectured him in the episode. She just couldn't accept his way of life like most people wouldn't accept it. Just like the people in Grendan didn't accept it. She doesn't hold what he did in the past against him but she does hold against him that he still follows that philosophy. Only living for your own survival is something that will make a person very wary about another. And this isn't a legal trial but about two people with conflicting beliefs.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:16   Link #336
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Originally Posted by fatez
So, not only he was put on trial a second time for his crime, in which the United States would be against that, also known as double jeopardy, he is forced to listen to this lecture from a person with bias, unclear information, and self absorbing. Where is the fair trial? Where is the impartial juries? If you want to talk law, Layfon did not get a fair trial from Nina.
Well he didn’t get a fair trial but so far Layfon and or Nina hadn’t file a case and even so, what Layfon did will fall under the jurisdiction of martial law instead of civil or public one.

Anyway unfortunately, so far we have yet to see what type of judicial systems the world of Regios uses. What type of government or administration do cities like Grendan or Zuellni uses? Is the law in Grendan can be applied or enforced in Zuellni? Do court even exist? If so do they use common or civil law? Did they already sign an ‘international’ treaty between states? Does the concept of ‘state’ even exist in Regios, or is the definition ‘City’ also equals ‘State’ in our view and understanding?

Imho the only way we can argue our views is within the scope of what is ‘fair’ or ‘just’. Well that’s just me.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:18   Link #337
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I think people take me much more seriously when I actually use an valid response instead of spewing fanboy statements of how great Layfon and how much money he'd make in this world. I said nothing that anyone who has read your past statements couldn't gather in half a second. You honestly refuted nothing I said and instead try to outright dismiss my argument because it clearly shows how silly yours is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
Well Nina at first couldn't understand why he'd do it but in the end she said she'd not deny his way of living. She only said she didn't think they could work together if he had the same mentality that cause him to get kicked out of Grendan. She has a different set of ideals that are vastly different than his. She has the right to decide that she doesn't like his beliefs and morals. I think she understand but understand and accept are two completely different things.




I don't think she ever lectured him in the episode. She just couldn't accept his way of life like most people wouldn't accept it. Just like the people in Grendan didn't accept it. She doesn't hold what he did in the past against him but she does hold against him that he still follows that philosophy. Only living for your own survival is something that will make a person very wary about another. And this isn't a legal trial but about two people with conflicting beliefs.
What you and other don't see is that Nina is the commanding officer, and Layfon is her subordiante. Most people are arguing that Layfon's past will be in conflict with the team, so Nina, as the captain is acting that way for the best interest of the group. If you are talking about 2 people on equal ground having different ideas, then there is nothing to talk about.



And let's face it. If your captain say that you and her can't work together, what's going to happen? Will the captain leave, or the member will be kickedout/transfer? This is a military after all.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:19   Link #338
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I know people won't change their mind, whether you think who is right or wrong. So, I would like to end my debate by asking some questions, hopefully you guys can see my points.


1. Who started the argument about philosophy? Nina or Layfon?Does it matter? Layfon is the one with a questionable philosophy so why would he bring it up?

2. Who was the one that is not tolerant of others? Nina or Layfon?Would you be tolerant of someone who morals was completely contrary to most peoples?

3. Has Layfon's action indicate that he will betray his comrade?His beliefs indicate he might possibly one day.

4. Did Nina already has bias view after hearing the story from the Gerona (sp)? Here is the transcript?So what your point? She did hear him out didn't she?

Layfon: ... to live
Nina: ... to live
Layfon: To keep living in the orphanage, I needed money, no matter what. I did what I could for that.
Nina: While doing so, you tainted the Heavens Blade? Insulting Military Arts, and the one who tried to reveal it?
Layfon: Heavens Blade and military arts are the only things needed to live. I mastered military arts because I needed them to live. I tried to become strong in order to survive. That's it.
Nina: even so... You say you'll do anything to live?
Layfon: is that wrong? Is there anything you won't do to stay alive?
Nina: Layfon... I won't accept it. Not that way of thinking.
Layfon: I guess you won't. It's the same as my friends in the orphanage, except for one.

5. Would it have helped Layfon's cases if he try explain himself more after reading the transcript and the things i highlighted?So why didn't he?

6. Does he owe Nina an explanation of his past?Why is his past coming up to her from others? He kept it hidden and now it came to bit him in back that's not Nina's fault.

7. Did Nina gave him fair questioning?Define fair?

8. Should one be obligated to explain his painful past, if somebody wants to know.Not obligated but certainly once its revealed people have a right to judge you on it.

9. Lastly, if the situation would've been left alone, would their be problem within the group?How can we know? It's already a problem because you have random people who hate him from his past popping up and probably more later on.

10. One more, would any group members, beside Nina, have a problem with it?Who cares? Nina doesn't form her opinions based on other people but on herself.


Answer those question, and I hopefully, you can come to the conclusion as me and the others.
Not surprising I didn't and your questions aren't very fair either way. Not that most of them aren't truly inconsequential and looking just to throw blame around.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:23   Link #339
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What you and other don't see is that Nina is the commanding officer, and Layfon is her subordiante. Most people are arguing that Layfon's past will be in conflict with the team, so Nina, as the captain is acting that way for the best interest of the group. If you are talking about 2 people on equal ground having different ideas, then there is nothing to talk about.



And let's face it. If your captain say that you and her can't work together, what's going to happen? Will the captain leave, or the member will be kickedout/transfer? This is a military after all.
Yes, if the captain of a platoon can't work together with a subordinate he will transfer the guy to a different platoon. That happens in the military if you were somehow under the impression is doesn't. The member can very well be kicked out as in the military you must conform to the military standards. If you don't that is quite a good reason for them letting the person go.
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Old 2009-03-12, 21:36   Link #340
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Well, Fatez brought up a good point. I mean Layfon and Nina is military afterall and Nina is the CO. If your CO don’t like you, most like you’ll get discharged. Heh. This is the concept of ‘fair’ in the military which apply to one of its the basic principles ‘follow your orders, soldier’. In Nina’s case, ‘follow my ideals’ ? lol.

Edit: now that I think of it, isn't that abusing her authority? Layfon is a good soldier afterall (well from performance point of view at least). But the final decision remains from the CO so....
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