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Old 2009-03-08, 02:29   Link #1
Guernsey
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Killing

I watched too many action shows when I ask this and they are probably threads like this already but killing is justified? I know if there were some "bad" guys who probably infiltrated my home or I need to survive in some hostile, my own survival mode kicks in and I may have to do some things that I am not proud of but at least I am alive. I really don't like that part of our human nature but what can I do, I am human myself and as long as I have a fight-or-flight response in my system, it is going to me or that guy. I know that soldiers aren't murderers or killers as they do not kill for the fun of it yet the stress of that killing may still linger in soldier's mind and may scar for them life despite their training. Why do we kill each other? Why do we fight? Because it only way the other guy will not listen or for some other reason but are those reasons justifiable? Can we really say that it was necessary for someone to do "kill" someone for some reason even for survival? Is killing ever justified?
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Old 2009-03-08, 03:25   Link #2
TinyRedLeaf
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Refer to Euthanasia, Discussion and Debate and also to threads such as Justice, Abortion, right or wrong? and Morality in Death Note: Do the ends justify the means?

All these threads revolve around different forms of killing under different circumstances. Not surprisingly, it's sometimes justifiable, sometimes not.
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Old 2009-03-08, 04:17   Link #3
grylsyjaeger
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Whether or not it's justified I do know that it is something that gets easier the more you do it.
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Old 2009-03-08, 04:38   Link #4
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Whether or not it's justified I do know that it is something that gets easier the more you do it.
This is...probably the darkest thing I have read on these forums in awhile (and the sig and avatar certainly do not help)...Congratulation...

That being said, TinyRedLeaf is right, there are already enough threads dealing with the moral consequences of killing/murder, so don't be surprised if a mod integrates this thread with one of the others.

Last edited by james0246; 2009-03-08 at 04:49.
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Old 2009-03-08, 05:27   Link #5
grylsyjaeger
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I honestly didn't intend to come off referring to killing another person. You see I grew up a hunter's youngest son with certain aspirations placed upon me.

I hate to say it but I've killed a lot of things over the years but that was mainly in preservation of land and cattle in killing pests such as rabbits and foxes.

I'm not really worried about it, the first few times I know I felt bad but over time you get used to it and just pull the trigger like second nature.

I hope I never have to kill another human but my likely acceptance into the ADF as an infantry officer may see me on the battlefield facing off against other people.
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Old 2009-03-08, 05:48   Link #6
yezhanquan
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Well, the ADF, unlike the Singapore Armed Forces, see very active service overseas. If you're really serious about joining the military, then I wish you good luck and all the best. Protect the mind; it's usually the first thing to go for a soldier, provided other body parts don't go first.
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Old 2009-03-08, 05:55   Link #7
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Whether or not it's justified I do know that it is something that gets easier the more you do it.
Hmm.



"Killing is easy, if you can forget the taste of sugar."
- Mr Rosso, Monster Ep.18
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Old 2009-03-08, 10:45   Link #8
Shadow Kira01
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It depends on the parties involved and the situation. In war, when soldiers or terrorists fight and kill each other; its either an order from above or they are doing it for survival. Generally, you can't really say whether or not it is justified as that nobody has the right to consider it unjust or just in the first place. If you take the issue religiously, a higher being wouldn't care much since this is just human nature and world balance to start off. If everybody live, then the overall population of the planet may explode..

However, regardless of the reasoning.. I am against both war and the utilization of nuclear bombing or any type of weaponry similar to it. It is always best to prevent a war before its eruption.
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Old 2009-03-08, 11:26   Link #9
sa547
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It's one thing about a street fight, it's another thing when someone has the finger on the doomsday button.

A convict once said in a newspaper interview that after the first kill (in which he had second thoughts and was a little more nervous), the succeeding hits didn't bothered him, as though it had become routine, like offing a chicken for lunch, with an immunity to death.

Things are different for me. I had a close call with some miscreants in the past and sometimes had to go on the offensive (paraphrasing a known passage in the Torah, he who's about to beat your ass, get there first and knock him out), but whenever I'm always out in the open, for every step I have to be careful and alert for anything untoward such as some snatcher out to grab my possessions or about to do something suspicious like a open knife to make a robbery.

Whatever the case, violent (and if possible, swift) measures are used only when all available methods of dealing with a serious problem are unsuccessful.
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Old 2009-03-08, 11:56   Link #10
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
However, regardless of the reasoning.. I am against both war and the utilization of nuclear bombing or any type of weaponry similar to it. It is always best to prevent a war before its eruption.
Do we both live in the same world? I mean right now pakistan is at a boiling point, the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and the massive stock piles of weapons make the earth one scary ass place to live in right now.
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Old 2009-03-08, 13:47   Link #11
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Threaten my family/friends/my life with the intent to harm or kill, and don't be surprised if you get a one way ticket to hell by delivery of .45acp.

However, if you're not doing anything to cause harm to the people in my world, or my country, then bygones be bygones as they say. At least what I can influence.

Shadow: Some wars cannot be prevented without force. Some fights just can't be avoided.

I'd much prefer everyone to get a long and there be no violence or crimes. I'm actually part of a pacifist and don't go out of my way to confront people or pick fights. I will however, defend myself with whatever means are necessary to survive(I'll use the less lethal ones whenever possible)
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Old 2009-03-08, 14:52   Link #12
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Shadow: Some wars cannot be prevented without force. Some fights just can't be avoided
To forcefully prevent a war is war. I agree with the general concept of what you said but a war cannot be prevented waging war. By the time a nation is forced to wage war any effort of "prevention" has already failed.
What a nation actually tries to prevent by waging war is to lose an inevitable war, not the war itself.

to go back in topic, i think killing should be avoided at the max extent of our possibilities, however sometimes is just unavoidable. We are quite lucky to live in societes where killing is not necessary if not for very few exceptions (at least i think most of us do).
Anyway when it comes to killing i don't think we can really talk about justice, it's necessity at best.
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Old 2009-03-08, 18:40   Link #13
LeoXiao
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Actually, the only reason people ever have to kill other people is because of...well, other people. People talk about "good wars" like WW2, but the only reason WW2 happened was because the Germans were looking for revenge and the Japanese were following the example set by the European Empires. Therefore the conflicts were never justified.

The way I see it, it is ALWAYS wrong to kill another human, even in self-defense. Of course, I'm not saying that you shouldn't stop someone who is trying to kill you, but even though it is in self-defense it is still wrong, as a life has been taken and misery for others can result (including PTSD on the part of the would-be-victim).
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Old 2009-03-08, 20:21   Link #14
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Actually, the only reason people ever have to kill other people is because of...well, other people. People talk about "good wars" like WW2, but the only reason WW2 happened was because the Germans were looking for revenge and the Japanese were following the example set by the European Empires. Therefore the conflicts were never justified.

The way I see it, it is ALWAYS wrong to kill another human, even in self-defense. Of course, I'm not saying that you shouldn't stop someone who is trying to kill you, but even though it is in self-defense it is still wrong, as a life has been taken and misery for others can result (including PTSD on the part of the would-be-victim).
Now see, I believe in capital punishment, and think it's morally right to kill someone who is trying to kill you or your family/friends. In fact, I'd encourage it completely.
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Old 2009-03-08, 20:46   Link #15
Vexx
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My only problem with capital punishment is that we make so many mistakes in assigning it. Also, it simply gives the criminal a way out. Life without parole is actually cheaper and it sucks.

I would use the force necessary to stop someone from harming me or my family. If they enter my house while its occupied, I have to assume they will kill anyone inside and don't intend to waste time checking that idea out.

It has never ever occurred to me to commit violence against someone I loved because I was angry at them. That doesn't even compute - its not "love" but something uglier.

Tribal/nation killing is a whole other subject that I'll defer for now.
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Old 2009-03-08, 21:20   Link #16
Spectacular_Insanity
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I would say there are situations in which killing is justified. However, that is not to say that makes killing right. Despite this, though, there exist times when evil must be committed to prevent evils greater still.

Would you begrudge a police officer who, in the last possible resort, must shoot a suspect holding a hostage at gun/knife point? Most people would say no, I wager.

I don't like killing in the least, but sometimes it's unavoidable in order to protect something important to us.

That's really all I have to say on the matter. My argument, if it can be called that, is just about as simple as can be, and leaves a bit of "wiggle room", so to speak. In other words, it tends to be flexible, to a certain extent.
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Old 2009-03-08, 21:30   Link #17
Nosauz
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I dunno I also take the stance that killing is innately wrong but I still think when it comes to my survival, and my families survival, I'll put aside my morals and protect our rights to survive. If it happens that I have to kill to protect the people I love from imminent danger than so be it. I don't care if you just got layed off, or w/e your history is, if you threaten my family or myself I have no other options then killing the suspect, then so be it. Would I prefer not to kill? Absolutely but that isn't always the case, as a human I have the right to defend my survival and the survival of friends and family.
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Old 2009-03-08, 22:14   Link #18
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
think it's morally right to kill someone who is trying to kill you or your family/friends. In fact, I'd encourage it completely.
I'd say it's not so much the right thing to do as the ONLY thing to do. Not killing the person would mean losing your own life, possibly the lives of others, and bringing misery to those who are close to you. But you can't say that it's right in the way that acts of kindness such as raising a child are.
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Old 2009-03-09, 06:11   Link #19
Jan-Poo
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Well "capital punishment" is quite a delicate matter. Being european i find it very difficult to accept it since the whole community i live in considers it immoral. However i can understand that people that live in societes like China, India or some countries in the U.S. find it natural.

Anyway what's the purpose of punishment? I can see only two possible explanations. One is that "punishment" is used as a way to correct someone's behavior. Of course correct one's behaviour by killing him is kinda preposterous, still i do believe that when a parent "punishes" his children it's for this very purpose.
Another way to consider punishment is as retribution such as "eye for an eye", however how is this diffrent from vengeance?
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Old 2009-03-09, 07:02   Link #20
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
people is because of...well, other people. People talk about "good wars" like WW2,
Who has said that WW2 was a good war Uh no there is no good war and WW2 is surely one of the worst !

About killing or not someone, for me, it's clear, we must avoid killing someone at all cost. if we kill the man that killed someone we liked then what's the difference between him and us ? What will think of it the person that we liked ? And in the end we will spend your time in jail too ! The killer don't derserve that we dirty our hand like that. The only case killing someone is justifiable is when its come to a life or death question. That's all. But even if i say that, i don't know how i will react if someone kill a member of my family (and i don't want to know )

For the capital punishment in USA, i heard that some States want abolished it because of the economic crisis. Capital punishment seems very expansive for the States.
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