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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 86 50.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 30.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.59%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.78%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-15, 23:25   Link #261
frubam
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Minorin likes Ryuuji, but wants to give her to Taiga huh? Perhaps Minorin's happiness IS Taiga's happiness. Still, forcing your best friend to admit to feelings she's yet ready to admit herself is wrong. I don't think Minorin had the right to do that to Taiga.
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Old 2009-03-15, 23:37   Link #262
Kaisos Erranon
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People are taking this show WAAAAAAY too seriously.

But then they've done that from the beginning.
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Old 2009-03-15, 23:50   Link #263
wistfulloner
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
People are taking this show WAAAAAAY too seriously.

But then they've done that from the beginning.
Isn't that a way to fully apprciate it?
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Old 2009-03-15, 23:54   Link #264
fish eric
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Originally Posted by Ryuou View Post
Toradora! is far from being a masterpiece, and I was always surprised at how many people were willing to say that it was one. Having said that though, Toradora! is a really good title in its genre. This may be what causes some people to inflate their praise for the series. I've done it myself a couple times too.

On to the issue of hypocrisy, I understand the argument of the side saying that she's being hypocritical. But I also didn't really feel that when I watched it, so much so that I can't really form an opinion on the matter. So disregard this as not being helpful to either side.



So way back when I thought Minori wasn't all together and sometimes felt she was a little dangerous, I was right on?


This is an interesting way to view things.

what would you consider a masterpiece (in the anime genre)?
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Old 2009-03-16, 00:00   Link #265
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
Isn't that a way to fully apprciate it?
No, not really.

A show is there to be watched and discussed. Not to get incredibly angry over or delve into long, pointless arguments over.



Man, I really hate most of this show's fandom. If you go on anime blogs and look at a lot of the comments, particularly on Random Curiosity, THEY'RE STILL SHIPPING.

Goddamn. Would it be too much to have a fandom that actually roots for the end girl for ONCE?
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Old 2009-03-16, 00:16   Link #266
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Man, I really hate most of this show's fandom. If you go on anime blogs and look at a lot of the comments, particularly on Random Curiosity, THEY'RE STILL SHIPPING.

Goddamn. Would it be too much to have a fandom that actually roots for the end girl for ONCE?
Can't be helped. I suspect Nice Boat had a lot of influence over how people deal with romance in their animes nowadays.

But the discussion's best left for another time and place when it's more suitable.
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Old 2009-03-16, 00:42   Link #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Minorin likes Ryuuji, but wants to give her to Taiga huh? Perhaps Minorin's happiness IS Taiga's happiness. Still, forcing your best friend to admit to feelings she's yet ready to admit herself is wrong. I don't think Minorin had the right to do that to Taiga.
This may be true, but Taiga's idea of Minori's happiness of being with Ryuuji, is NO ONE's happiness.

Taiga would be torn apart by that happening, Minori would be upset since SHE didn't aquire her own happiness, and Ryuuji would end up realizing that being with Minori isn't what he really wanted.
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Old 2009-03-16, 00:56   Link #268
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Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003 View Post
Can't be helped. I suspect Nice Boat had a lot of influence over how people deal with romance in their animes nowadays.

But the discussion's best left for another time and place when it's more suitable.
What the heck is Nice Boat? I keep seeing the term in blogs but I have no idea what it means. Tv-tropes doesn't have an entry on it either.
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Old 2009-03-16, 00:57   Link #269
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I have this feeling a lot of replies here are without a serious understanding of the kind of person Minorin might be, along with the very real possibility of her having other priorities in life - placing her friends and other people around her above herself seems to be one of her highest. Notice her jobs are all about service and making people happy?

There's no real need to bash her... I wholly respect her decision. It's been said before she possibly does not like Ryuuji more than Taiga does.. I'm inclined to agree, and therefore she graciously gave up the fight to re-prioritize her life.
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Old 2009-03-16, 01:06   Link #270
Kaisos Erranon
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What the heck is Nice Boat? I keep seeing the term in blogs but I have no idea what it means. Tv-tropes doesn't have an entry on it either.
This.

Also Ctrl+F Nice Boat here.
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Old 2009-03-16, 04:04   Link #271
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Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
what would you consider a masterpiece (in the anime genre)?
Wait I forget, what genre is Toradora again? Romatic comedy or romantic drama?
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Old 2009-03-16, 06:05   Link #272
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Wait I forget, what genre is Toradora again? Romatic comedy or romantic drama?
Romantic comedy, but it becomes more of a hybrid at the end.
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Old 2009-03-16, 06:32   Link #273
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
This may be true, but Taiga's idea of Minori's happiness of being with Ryuuji, is NO ONE's happiness.

Taiga would be torn apart by that happening, Minori would be upset since SHE didn't aquire her own happiness, and Ryuuji would end up realizing that being with Minori isn't what he really wanted.
Is it ever Taiga's intention of making Minorin happy? I thought this whole fiasco was about making Ryuuji happy by getting with Minorin. And despite what happened, I don't necessarily feel that Ryuuji 'loves' Taiga in the sense of romance; most of his worrying seems to stem more from sympathy than anything else.

And why is it that people think Taiga is gonna die w/o Ryuuji? Sure, she would have been sad, she would have cried and moped, but she would have eventually gotten over it, just like with Kitamura. She's shown herself to be more or less self-sufficient these last few episodes, even if she was hiding her feelings, she was doing alright.
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Old 2009-03-16, 06:47   Link #274
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Is it ever Taiga's intention of making Minorin happy? I thought this whole fiasco was about making Ryuuji happy by getting with Minorin. And despite what happened, I don't necessarily feel that Ryuuji 'loves' Taiga in the sense of romance; most of his worrying seems to stem more from sympathy than anything else.

And why is it that people think Taiga is gonna die w/o Ryuuji? Sure, she would have been sad, she would have cried and moped, but she would have eventually gotten over it, just like with Kitamura. She's shown herself to be more or less self-sufficient these last few episodes, even if she was hiding her feelings, she was doing alright.
muuwhahaha

Interesting perspective. I wonder how long will it be before someone finds the need to point out their disagreement with this.

I get what your kind of saying though. One may say the deep love Ryuuji feels for Taiga could be sort of like that to a close/dear family member rather than a love interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulloner View Post
Romantic comedy, but it becomes more of a hybrid at the end.
Well for romantic comedy Id say School Rumble out classes many in its genre when it comes to the lulz.
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Old 2009-03-16, 07:22   Link #275
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Is it ever Taiga's intention of making Minorin happy? I thought this whole fiasco was about making Ryuuji happy by getting with Minorin.
If my memory doesn't fail me, during the time when Minorin got Taiga pinned down, Taiga sort of admitted that she did it because she wants Minorin to be happy. So, in a sense, she did it for both of them. If Minorin ever shows her dislike toward Ryuuji, I believe Taiga wouldn't be doing all this in the first place..
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Old 2009-03-16, 07:40   Link #276
roan
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Is it ever Taiga's intention of making Minorin happy? I thought this whole fiasco was about making Ryuuji happy by getting with Minorin. And despite what happened, I don't necessarily feel that Ryuuji 'loves' Taiga in the sense of romance; most of his worrying seems to stem more from sympathy than anything else.
The cuts in the internal monologues and the ambiguity in character emotions apparently were done on purpose in the anime to keep people guessing, so try thinking of it like this (the presentation could have been better).

How much of that sympathy and worry are genuine and how much are convenient excuses (the paternal role nonsense that's been keeping him from really taking a look at what's going on) to be with her or to keep her with him at those times when she seems to be leaving his life? I mean, the bursts of energy and determination when it comes to Taiga and no one else should be enough to show that there's something a little unusual going on here. (her dad's an asshole, yay, she's mine again so I'll run to her even when she's not really that depressed (and rob her of a romantic moment too by making it to the finish line with Minori)! or she's growing up and leaving my life again, but yay, it looks like she needs me again, so I stay with her on this night as Santa Bear! etc.)

How does he really feel unconsciously and what's the real factor that caused this meek, doormat to make an embarassing proclamation (which sounds more like a confession in a classic love comedy) about tigers and dragons standing equal to each other to stay next to a girl who just terminated their previous 2-week long abusive relationship and didn't want his pity anymore?


Quote:
And why is it that people think Taiga is gonna die w/o Ryuuji? Sure, she would have been sad, she would have cried and moped, but she would have eventually gotten over it, just like with Kitamura. She's shown herself to be more or less self-sufficient these last few episodes, even if she was hiding her feelings, she was doing alright.
She got over Kitamura rather easily and a little too beautifully for that to even be compared here, though I don't think she's going to die w/o Ryuuji and I certainly don't think she deserves Ryuuji any more than anybody else because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0nyb0y View Post
If my memory doesn't fail me, during the time when Minorin got Taiga pinned down, Taiga sort of admitted that she did it because she wants Minorin to be happy. So, in a sense, she did it for both of them. If Minorin ever shows her dislike toward Ryuuji, I believe Taiga wouldn't be doing all this in the first place..
Regarding that,
Spoiler:

Last edited by roan; 2009-03-16 at 09:55.
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Old 2009-03-16, 07:43   Link #277
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Really? Perhaps my opinion of SR was poisoned by how it all went down at the end but after a certain point too many "Misunderstandings" piled up, I knew how every storyline would end with a reset and there were only a handful of ways it'd happen too so it got pretty damn monotonous, especially by the second season.
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:14   Link #278
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What do you mean by this? That Toradora is better, or that Spice and Wolf is better?
Neither. Just that they are completely different from each other. Not really at all comparable, IMHO.

And, as for the "Are you watching the same anime as me" quip... did you really think I actually expected some kinda response to that? It was a quip, nothing more, nothing less...
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:28   Link #279
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After watch epi 23, some must be wondering why went Minorin crazy in the final scene. I think it boils down to her friendship with Taige, ironically not wanting Taige to get hurt. We first see that side of Minorin during her confrontation with Ryuji over Taige's father in epi 13.

Minorin is always protective of Taige, seeing how she was alone and how her family has largely abandoned her. You could see Minorin very worried about hurting Taige. The last scene in epi 18 showed how shelled shocked she was when she broke Taige's crystal star (a parallel to what she fear might do to Taige if she were to pursue a relationship with Ryuji). Following that, she saw Taige broke down on Christmas eve and the ski trip incident (which she must feel to be at least partially responsible), she decided to cast aside all her feelings for Ryuji.

Coming back to that last scene in 23, Minorin was sharp enough to know what immediately was going on and was pissed off by the messy web of affairs. She knew that if this were to go on, all 3 (or 4 if you count Ami) of them would suffer. So she did what had to be done for them to be honest with each other. It couldn't have been easy for her as well, since she does like Ryuji (see epi 20 from 14:00).

I like it that Kitamura and Ami chipped in their bit to help too. Kitamura, after knowing how it feels like have a love professed too late. Ami, liking Ryuji but knows what has to be done for a friend in Taige.

As this series comes to an end, I just hope that somehow Minorin can at least have a good closure for her feelings with Ryuji. Maybe Ami and her can confessed to each other they like Ryuji and hold each in a teary embrace (something I remember watching in Clannad)

Or they can make Toradora: After Ami and Toradora: After Minorin OVAs
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Old 2009-03-16, 10:34   Link #280
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About bloody time they did what did. I swear it was like watching an intervention i guess in a way it was. I guess we have come to the climax Ryu looked like he had finally found his resolve at the end. Taiga looked like her head was going to spin off into orbit. But this is Taiga denial to the very end its a lot easier to help others with their feelings than face your own.

I still vote Yasuko is the best mum ever who wouldnt like to have a fun mom like that. I felt pretty bad when she collapsed. Just like any mother she wants the best for child her personality often obscures that fact but it makes it more powerful.
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