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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 86 50.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 30.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 4.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 1.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.59%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.78%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-13, 09:34   Link #141
Maciste
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Fantastic episode, imo, a perfect 10, cause it totally caught me right from the start till the very end!

And, as BetoJR already mentioned, it's not the common themes, it's the way the series deals with it that leaves me with an awe. Btw, I don't know how a love polygon series could exist without the known themes, since there's nothing that could be added new to the mix. The handling, that's where you can score and Toradora is doing a pretty fine job here.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:06   Link #142
HayashiTakara
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So Ami is in love with Ryuuji, but doesn't quite understand herself and doesn't seem to want to persue it because of Taiga and that her feelings won't be reciprocated. Minorin is forsakening her feelings for Ryuuji because she doesn't want to find happiness in another person but rather in herself, also because she wants Taiga for once to be happy.

Does that about wrap it up?
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:08   Link #143
BetoJR
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I still think people assume too much about Ami's feelings towards Ryuji. But I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:11   Link #144
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
I still think people assume too much about Ami's feelings towards Ryuji. But I guess we'll have to wait and see...
Its pretty obvious, the shop scene is the biggest giveaway. As she was looking at Ryuuji while saying "I'd actually be happy if it wasn't everyone" Meaning that she'll be happy if it was just Ryuuji that would be sad if she were to leave.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:14   Link #145
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I was going to make a post trying to describe how Ami's feelings for Ryuuji could be, but I can't think of any words to really put it all together.
something about how she seems to like both ryuuji and taiga in the same way, possibly because neither of them see her as some famous person or something like that.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:16   Link #146
BetoJR
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HayashiTakara, that still doesn't really mean anything towards a romantic feeling. Sure, some kind of feeling is there and Ryuji did help her in letting go of her facade - but most people tend to forget that Taiga helped just as much, behaving as she normally does toward her.

I dunno, Ami doesn't really strike me as the obvious sort of girl.

Edit ADD: Darn, Nenkitsune beat me to it.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:18   Link #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
HayashiTakara, that still doesn't really mean anything towards a romantic feeling. Sure, some kind of feeling is there and Ryuji did help her in letting go of her facade, but people tend to forget Taiga helped just as much, simply behaving as she normally does toward her.

I dunno, Ami doesn't really strike me as the obvious sort of girl.

Edit ADD: Darn, Nenkitsune beat me to it.
The way I took it was when she said that she'd be happy even if it wasn't everyone, was that she'd be happy as long as Taiga and Ryuuji still treated her the same as they have been, as a person and not as the model known as Ami
(because earlier she was talking to Ryuuji about how she'd save Taiga if no one else did, or something like that)
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:22   Link #148
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
The way I took it was when she said that she'd be happy even if it wasn't everyone, was that she'd be happy as long as Taiga and Ryuuji still treated her the same as they have been, as a person and not as the model known as Ami
That's the same feeling I got from it, as well. She regards both of them as very important persons in her life, not just Ryuji. That's why I tend to not really see all those romantic vibes coming from her... doesn't change the fact that I would actually prefer them together, but that's not how the story has been building its steam. As it is, I don't really think she ever did "love" Ryuji in any kind of romantic way. But, like I said, it's still up in the air, somewhat.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:29   Link #149
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That's why Ami said she didn't understand her feelings.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:32   Link #150
BetoJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
That's why Ami said she didn't understand her feelings.
Sorry, why would that be, again?
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:39   Link #151
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Minorin went berserk D:

Did anyone notice whenever Taiga says the phrase "It hurts", there's always a double meaning to it?
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:47   Link #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementSun View Post
Minorin went berserk D:

Did anyone notice whenever Taiga says the phrase "It hurts", there's always a double meaning to it?
yeah, actually, I caught the emotional meaning before I realized the physical meaning.
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Old 2009-03-13, 10:57   Link #153
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Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post
yeah, actually, I caught the emotional meaning before I realized the physical meaning.
Hah, I was the exact opposite -_-
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Old 2009-03-13, 11:42   Link #154
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Did anyone else notice that in this episode the drawing quality seemed to go down quite a bit. Or maybe not down, but it was somewhat different from previous episodes.
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Old 2009-03-13, 12:53   Link #155
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It's not quite "Birdy as done by a 1st grader" But yeah, the style gets a little bit rougher when they go for a scene with a need for mobility and motion. Aside from that I didn't notice anything too out of place.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:09   Link #156
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The quality has officially hit a new low this episode. Still, the drama and plot movements totally made up for it. And more.

Cannot WAIT for the next one to come. Oh, the complexity and intricacies of the web of relationships was tantalizing and it'd be full out satisfaction no matter how it ends. (I'm a very realistic Ami fan)

Though, I'll be pretty sad when the series ends; I can't survive without my weekly dose of high school romance conundrums/maelstrom of subtleties. And I will definitely miss the 5 of them hanging out together - the chemistry between each person is wonderful and the aggregate group dynamics awesome.

Here's to hoping there'll be an OVA or something. About Amin.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:15   Link #157
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Holy shit.

This episode, just... holy shit. The final scene was just SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL.

Impressions:


The more one watches the show, the more obvious it becomes that Minorin's genki personality is entirely a facade. She's actually very angsty and violent.

Berserker Mode Minorin is fine too, though.


Although it still can't be said whether Ryuuji actually likes Taiga or not, he's definitely lost all feeling for Minorin at this point. She wasn't the person he thought she was, and he's never going to be able to deal with her personality, so he's just given up. Interesting, that.


A lot of Ami this episode as well, and it looks like we're starting to clear up her feelings. Maybe.


The scene with Haruta was great, but then again every scene with Haruta is great.


Why can I see a Spin-Off series involving the Kitamura-Maya-Noto triangle? I can already see how it'd go, too. Maya would realize that Kitamura isn't going to pay any attention to her, and fall in love with Noto instead.

Sure, it sounds rather like this series, but I can imagine the dynamics being somewhat... different, especially since Noto and Maya are considerably different in character type than Ryuuji and Taiga.


The scene with Ryuuji and Taiga after Yasuko fell ill was win too.

So much win. Wish it was more like the books where Ryuuji's feelings are a bit clearer at this point.



Anyway, since I always rate episodes on level of enjoyment and the impression it leaves, 10/10.
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:19   Link #158
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Something to add on to the talk about Ami, though it's fairly obvious (points 1+2):

(1)
R: "Besides, you'll disappoint everyone if you leave. Everyone adores you..."
A: "...Actually, I'd be happy if it wasn't everyone."

Sure it's interesting to ponder her feelings about Ryuuji (and Taiga), but that acknowledgment also shows the striking contrast between when she first arrived and now. Previously, she put on that facade to please everyone. Now she doesn't even care about everyone anymore, e.g. she refuses to model for the school uniform pamphlet because she no longer cares about pleasing everyone.

(2) Segueing into this next point, there's also the contrast between how she reacted to modeling for the school uniform pamphlet vs. "modeling" for Taiga's chocolates. She does it for Taiga. Like some of the previous comments, this makes me lean toward thinking that [the quote in #1] is not so much about Ami's romantic feelings for Ryuuji (or perhaps lack thereof) as it is realizing how special Ryuuji and Taiga are to her.

(3)
A: "I watched Taiga get hurt and understood her pain. I thought that, since I understood her, I'd save her if no one else did, or something like that. Now I realize that everything would sort itself out if I left."

Questions:
(a) What is Ami's understanding of Taiga's pain, specifically?
(b) Is this pain something that Ami has similarly experienced, or is it just that Ami recognizes it with her amazing perceptive abilities?
(c) What's the "everything" that would sort itself out, the relationship mess, right?
(d) And how would Ami's leaving solve that? Or actually, the better question would be, what is it that would sort everything out? She realizes she doesn't need to help Taiga because some factor will do it... what is it? That there's no way in heck the situation will remain the way it is? That an explosion is bound to occur, as per the one at the end of this episode?
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Old 2009-03-13, 13:43   Link #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loimulohi View Post
Did anyone else notice that in this episode the drawing quality seemed to go down quite a bit. Or maybe not down, but it was somewhat different from previous episodes.
It was intentional. Occasionally, the team reverts to that drawing style when there's a need for extra fluidity.

The alternative would be to maintain the normal style and shoot for less motion. However, I suspect they also chose the stylistic change for a heightened dramatic effect (thus killing two birds with one stone, although some might argue that the strategy is ineffective).
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Old 2009-03-13, 14:16   Link #160
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I don't know why people are complaining about the animation/motion quality of this episode, I thought it helped pertain the dramatic effects alluded from the important scenes. Do you expect them to be stiffies at a time like this?
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