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Old 2010-01-21, 09:50   Link #2441
Guardian Enzo
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The one similarity with True Tears, I think, is that we're also talking about a complex relationship that dates back to elementary school and is laden with unspoken feeling. Very simialr in some ways, in fact - but with Shin and Hiromi you have not only a superficial politeness, but an erotic tension that neither can ignore.

Theowne, I would describe my description of "charmingly old-fashioned" as a compliment rather than a "complaint". It's interesting to see a smart, layered relationship drama about teens that doesn't focus on the hormonal. I wouldn't say this or the True Tears model is better, as I adore both shows - just very different. And if TT was 50+ episodes or CG 13, I think both those shows would necessarily have adopted different tones regarding their core relationships.
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:14   Link #2442
Theowne
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I meant "complaint" referring to your earlier comment about what was lacking in CG, not the "old-fashioned" comment. Most of my favourite anime are older series, anyways. Maybe one could call CG's approach unusual...then again, the circumstances of the main character's lives and relationships are also unusual. Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me. Then again, I don't particularly hold TT in as high regard either, so I will just chalk it up to personal preference.

Anyways, one thing that's still in my mind is the question of what Mizuki's point in the story is/was . Everyone else in the story seems to have some role to play, while his addition seemed pretty pointless. He didn't really trigger any kind of romantic development. Unless Adachi just wanted additional comic relief beyond Senda. His role seems a little aimless in what is otherwise fairly tight storytelling.
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:27   Link #2443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Something else I noticed: Aoba stil doesn't call him "Kou".
Maybe more of a "very very very rarely (and in _just_ the right circumstances)" calls him "Kou"? Two days ago, I started rewatching Cross Game, and in episode 27 (which I just watched), Aoba does call out "Kou" as part of her cheering during the Seishuu/Ryuuou game. Using "Kitamura-sempai" in that instance would be a bit harder on the throat, though, and anything else would perhaps leave others confused, but I suppose that she could have left the name off altogether... ^_^;

Ep. 29... Ah, Wakaba^H^H^H^H^H^HAkane.
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Old 2010-01-21, 17:36   Link #2444
Guardian Enzo
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If Mizuki ever had a real point in the series beyond making Kou look good by comparison, I've yet to discover it. I agree he's one of the weaker elements of an otherwise rock-solid construction.
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Old 2010-01-21, 20:20   Link #2445
DragoonKain3
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Now I know why I love ED4 so much... it's practically the thoughts of an osananajimi. Well, that's not necessarily true, since the 'singer' of the song could simply be a 'best friend' character, but c'mon now, this is Japan; the 'best friend of the opposite sex' character is almost always the osananajimi lol.

In any case, I really like the lyrics regardless. Kinda ironic its a bit sad considering the very upbeat tempo of the song. XD

Thanks to Sub Smith for the entire translation of the song. The translation (and soft sub for the matter) is here, and I'm sure if you can get fansub anime, it should be trivial getting the original PV itself.
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Old 2010-01-22, 01:17   Link #2446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
If Mizuki ever had a real point in the series beyond making Kou look good by comparison, I've yet to discover it. I agree he's one of the weaker elements of an otherwise rock-solid construction.
mizuki is complex, even though he lacks screen time, he's the guy that if aoba ever had a spot open in her heart he would be the one that she could go look to. You can see through his spartan room, with the few pictures he has taken. There of the moutains he loves, the only one that doesn't fit is one of Aoba, no matter how high he climbs he will never be able to climb into her heart. Even though he is somewhat pitiful, it's more the sad fate that he recieves due to the fact that aoba's heart belongs to baseball, wakaba, and kou. He never had a chance, even if he was her destined one, put his fate is a more obvioius one when compared to azuma. Actually when Azuma asks if siblings tied by marriage can get married and mizuki is standing there with the dust blowing at his feet saying that cousins too was quite a redeeming quality.
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Old 2010-01-22, 02:49   Link #2447
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
I personally find Cross Game's approach more rewarding, and I wouldn't say that this indicates a lack of passion either, assuming we're using the definition of passion meaning "A powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger". Maybe this will differ for every viewer, but it never stuck out to me as being unrealistic, particularly since we are watching Cross Game as observers, rather than hearing narrations about every thing going through Kou or Aoba's mind. Even if they did have the feelings you refer to, it doesn't mean it would manifest in their behavior in any overt way.

Maybe it is charmingly old-fashioned, maybe not - Honey and Clover is a more modern series that drew similar complaints. I recall this same thread of discussion popping up in those old H&C threads about how real university students would be more libidinous or lustful, and I didn't quite agree back then either.

My two cents, FWIW.
I didn't know people had such a problem with H&C. Honey and Clover is one of my favourite shows.

I never saw that as a problem with Cross Game either. I think, because they have known each other for so long, I would find it strange if they were awkward around each other. Kou did notice Aoba being attractive though. That scene when he looks through the window and watches her cleaning and someone's words...can't remember who...run through his mind while he is running away, - 'Aoba is really pretty and popular' (or something to that effect). What episode was it?

True Tears...I didn't get why the main character liked her. It just was. It... I don't know...looked more like he was infatuated with her. I felt it didn't have any depth. He kind of liked her from far. He didn't know her. I like it when they show you exactly what makes them great together. But I didn't really like True Tears so my memory of it might be fuzzy
On the other hand, like that Aoba and Kou know each other so well and are so alike. I usually dislike relationships where two people are similar, but every time someone says Aoba is like Kou it makes me very happy Aoba and Kou are really close to each other, for being able to know each other so well. So intimacy need not be physical. Aoba x Kou are already in my favourite pairings whether the get together or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Another thing I forgot to mention is that Aoba, despite being a very attractive girl - as proven by the dozens of fans she's always had - , has never once so far shown of being aware of it. Not once she's been vain and didn't ever brag about either (except maybe in ep.40 with Kou where she was about to say "even I have had a stalker!"). On the contrary, she's always very harsh with herself, and quite convinced of her unladylikeness.
Her entire family keeps reminding her of her being unladylike. No wonder she doesn't realise!

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Originally Posted by Pellissier View Post
Aoba wouldn't seem the type to make the first step, but then again, she's crashed so many taboos in her journey that who knows.
Especially since Wakaba told her to not take Kou away from her. But really, who knows. First she needs to admit it to herself. Only then can we expect more. I think she is ignoring having feelings for Kou because she thinks he belongs to Wakaba. Akane might make her realise she likes him. Somewhere she is aware that she likes Kou, she is just not fully conscious of it yet. Once that happens we might see some development.

Last edited by Asleep; 2010-01-22 at 03:07.
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Old 2010-01-22, 03:48   Link #2448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingram View Post
Maybe more of a "very very very rarely (and in _just_ the right circumstances)" calls him "Kou"? Two days ago, I started rewatching Cross Game, and in episode 27 (which I just watched), Aoba does call out "Kou" as part of her cheering during the Seishuu/Ryuuou game.
Yes, in a previous post (of some months ago) I already listed the times she said "Kou", more or less 3 times in the whole series including the one you mention.

I was saying she still doesn't call him Kou in normal life, she's still stuck with aitsu which perhaps is the only shade left of the "old" Aoba, and also perhaps the reason Adachi hasn't changed it so far, a sort of reminder of how things were once upon a time.

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Originally Posted by Asleep View Post
Her entire family keeps reminding her of her being unladylike. No wonder she doesn't realise!
True, but if pretty much everyone in the school asked her out, and more than 100 persons asked Kou to introduce them to her, shouldn't those be at least small clues?

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Originally Posted by Asleep View Post
Especially since Wakaba told her to not take Kou away from her.
That's a very important point, but if I remember correctly it hasn't been brought up in quite a while. Can't remember precisely, but it might have stopped after the match with Ryuou when Aoba asked Ichiyo how Wakaba would look if she were alive.
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Old 2010-01-22, 07:02   Link #2449
The Rumblefish
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Sometimes, it looks like Adachi introduces a seemingly important character only to drop it like an old sock a few chapters/volumes later because he wasn't convinced by the character after all. I think this is what happened with Mizuki.

It was the good timing to introduce a rival for Kō in order to trigger the beginning of a romantic tension: Kō realizing he is jealous when a serious contender comes near Aoba and Aoba realizing she is a cute teenager and not just a tomboy anymore. Remember, she starts paying attention to her body and how she dresses inside the house when Mizuki moves in. However, in the end Adachi correctly presumed that it was much more interesting to use Azuma as a potential threat so once Mizuki completed his mission (sparking the "question"), he was cast aside from the main plot.

I think nobody would have complained if Mizuki had been "put on a bus" after it was made evident that he would not be a real threat, because he did not contribute to the story anymore despite the character's untapped potential. Besides the romantic triangle, there was room for him as either the "I hate baseball" foil or the "awkward teenager surrounded by girls in a house" character. Yet none of that happened, with the exception of a few throwaway joke panels to remind us he exists. Since Mizuki has been around Kō and Aoba for a while, Adachi could have made him an interesting achor to the past constantly reminding them of their childhood antics when they "despised" each other; he could have also tried to maintain that explosive relationship between them via absurd schemes. Much more could have been done with Mizuki.

It's too bad because Adachi is pretty good at creating complex secondary/supporting characters which almost appear to be the heroes of their own show in the background of the main story. I am thinking of Hanzō in Togarashi or Shin in Hiatari Ryōkō (one of the best supporting characters ever created by Adachi). Mizuki had the potential to join that group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellissier
she's still stuck with aitsu which perhaps is the only shade left of the "old" Aoba
The interesting thing about aitsu si that it is often employed by manga heroines (and maybe real life Japanese girls?) when they have someone special in their heart but don't admit it to themselves. There is only one "that guy", whether he has been annoying or adorable to the girl talking about him.

Yet, Aoba (thinks she) can get away with it because of her very peculiar relationship with Kō: they have known each other forever, he was the boyfriend of her sister and pretty much the only young guy in her daily life. Therefore, it can appear natural and unsuspiscious of her to use aitsu. However, given the reactions and comments from Akane, Ichiyo or even Azuma, she not fooling anyone but her and Kō.
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Old 2010-01-22, 10:57   Link #2450
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Asleep View Post
Especially since Wakaba told her to not take Kou away from her. But really, who knows. First she needs to admit it to herself. Only then can we expect more. I think she is ignoring having feelings for Kou because she thinks he belongs to Wakaba. Akane might make her realise she likes him. Somewhere she is aware that she likes Kou, she is just not fully conscious of it yet. Once that happens we might see some development.
It's interesting to consider that from Kou's side, as well. Kou just turned 18, and has never been on a date - unless you charitably call his field trip with Akane a date (as Aoba did). It's commonly assumed - certainly by me and Tsukishima-san and probably Aoba - that it's out of loyalty to Wakaba. But what if the real reason Kou never dated is out of loyalty to Aoba?
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Old 2010-01-22, 13:04   Link #2451
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
It's interesting to consider that from Kou's side, as well. Kou just turned 18, and has never been on a date - unless you charitably call his field trip with Akane a date (as Aoba did). It's commonly assumed - certainly by me and Tsukishima-san and probably Aoba - that it's out of loyalty to Wakaba. But what if the real reason Kou never dated is out of loyalty to Aoba?
I imagine you mean subconsciously. Would he really purposely not date anyone because of Aoba? Although I don't doubt that to be a possibility, but that is an interesting thought. As an anime-only viewer, I always thought that maybe Kou loved Aoba since childhood (of course that doesn't mean that he didn't love Wakaba.) The death of Wakaba might have just complicated things because Kou was well aware of her feelings so he didn't want to disrespect those feelings. Either way, that was just a thought in the back of my head.

I do remember someone mentioning that there was extra details about Kou and Wakaba's childhood (and/or relationship) in the manga, so that probably shot down my idea all together
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Old 2010-01-22, 13:54   Link #2452
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
But what if the real reason Kou never dated is out of loyalty to Aoba?
I have been singing that very song for quite a while, now.
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Old 2010-01-22, 14:37   Link #2453
Guardian Enzo
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I imagine you mean subconsciously. Would he really purposely not date anyone because of Aoba? Although I don't doubt that to be a possibility, but that is an interesting thought. As an anime-only viewer, I always thought that maybe Kou loved Aoba since childhood (of course that doesn't mean that he didn't love Wakaba.) The death of Wakaba might have just complicated things because Kou was well aware of her feelings so he didn't want to disrespect those feelings. Either way, that was just a thought in the back of my head.
I don't know if I mean subconsciously or not, TBH. As I mentioned yesterday I think whatever romantic feelings Kou has for Aoba are relatively "safe" in the sense that as far as he knows, she wouldn't consider dating him in a million years. Kou is definitely the suffer in silence type (witness his initial reaction to Waka's death) and I wouldn't put it past him to be carrying a torch for Aoba with no apparent evidence other than a self-enforced celibacy.
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Old 2010-01-22, 17:00   Link #2454
The Rumblefish
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It's an interesting question, Guardian Enzo. My view on this might be altered by the knowledge of future events in the manga, although I think my answer was the same at this point in the story. Just in case, I answered in the manga's thread (page 56).

Regarding the topic of sexual tension between Kō and Aoba. First of all, the anime adaptation is tamer than the manga, which features some fan service (as always with Adachi) and "naughtier" dialogues.

You might remember the scene when Aoba dozes off in the bath at her grandparents' home, gets a flashback dream about Wakaba and her, then remembers that Kō tried to join them. She wakes up as she screams something like "don't come in, you idiot". I think this scene is precisely the moment when Aoba becomes aware of her sexuality. In the flashback, she was yelling at Kō because he was ruining her private moment with Wakaba. In her teenage form, she is yelling at (imaginary) Kō because she is naked and vulnerable in the bath.

At that point in the story, she has already started seriously reconsidering Kō. Furthermore, it happens just before Mizuki's arrival at the Tsukishima household, during which we see Aoba being careful about how she dresses up for the very first time.

Long story short, I think the importance of that bath scene is underestimated.
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Old 2010-01-23, 10:57   Link #2455
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Originally Posted by The Rumblefish View Post
It's an interesting question, Guardian Enzo. My view on this might be altered by the knowledge of future events in the manga, although I think my answer was the same at this point in the story. Just in case, I answered in the manga's thread (page 56).

Regarding the topic of sexual tension between Kō and Aoba. First of all, the anime adaptation is tamer than the manga, which features some fan service (as always with Adachi) and "naughtier" dialogues.

You might remember the scene when Aoba dozes off in the bath at her grandparents' home, gets a flashback dream about Wakaba and her, then remembers that Kō tried to join them. She wakes up as she screams something like "don't come in, you idiot". I think this scene is precisely the moment when Aoba becomes aware of her sexuality. In the flashback, she was yelling at Kō because he was ruining her private moment with Wakaba. In her teenage form, she is yelling at (imaginary) Kō because she is naked and vulnerable in the bath.

At that point in the story, she has already started seriously reconsidering Kō. Furthermore, it happens just before Mizuki's arrival at the Tsukishima household, during which we see Aoba being careful about how she dresses up for the very first time.

Long story short, I think the importance of that bath scene is underestimated.
No, no, no, no, that's just embarrassment about a guy seeing her naked. Even though Adachi play's Aoba as the super tomboy who only wishes she could be a boy type thing, it never really was meant straight to play the complete Tomboy trope. It's hinted that Aoba has always considered herself more a strong woman than Tomboy, mostly after Akane appears, but the reason why we might see her as a tomboy is because everybody else does, the misconceptions of everybody elses' aoba is a tomboy so she doesn't go out of her way to correct them as long as they recognize her baseball. Don't forget at the beginning when she was on the middle school team she was well aware of the reason guys liked her, she just had no real interest. This relationship between aoba and kou is more similar to say Winry x Ed in FMA for those that know the show, although that manga/anime is muddled with violence but those two capture that similar dynamic that kou and aoba have.
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Old 2010-01-23, 23:27   Link #2456
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#42

Mizuki hit the nail into Kou's head
It's 160 kmph condition for Aoba to fall in love.
way to go, Kou.
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Old 2010-01-24, 01:25   Link #2457
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We're down to the home stretch. It would be a breakneck and chockfull 9 episodes. Although I'm one of the manga readers, I'm still so looking forward to the coming episodes.
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Old 2010-01-24, 07:51   Link #2458
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I just realized that there are less than 10 episodes/weeks left before the series ends. Will there be anything at least at the start of the summer season to fill in the void?
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Old 2010-01-24, 12:55   Link #2459
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I just realized that there are less than 10 episodes/weeks left before the series ends. Will there be anything at least at the start of the summer season to fill in the void?
If you want anime baseball, there will be Major season six and Ookiku Furikabutte season two. If you want more Adachi, we will have to hope some kind fansubbers will be interestedin doing more of his old series.
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Old 2010-01-24, 14:15   Link #2460
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Ookiku Furikabutte season two
While it doesn't really have the same romance elements, I hope everyone watching Cross Game now go and watch the first season and join us when the 2nd season of this starts. Oofuri is awesome.
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