AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-30, 12:10   Link #841
jpwong
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by poko-kun View Post
Even manga is on going but the fact is they have a lot of materials to use so why bother with filler?
The anime's moving too fast is the problem. Though the pacing feels right, they've done almost 8 volumes in 20 episodes. The manga only has 15 published volumes right now so if they don't do something they'll hit the end of the available material well before the end of the series.

Personally speaking I'd much rather have the anime original content spread over the entire series than end up in a situation where the last 10 episodes end up being an anime only arc.
jpwong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 14:23   Link #842
Free
Pro Procrastinator
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
When you send that in, do make sure you say you are 3. They'll give you pity points.

This week's episode was quite good, and the one next week seems interesting too. I never read the manga, so a good episode is a good episode, filler or not.
Free is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 17:27   Link #843
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboygo View Post
Hmm... Categories and genres are more of a marketing concern, and perhaps one of the reasons Cross Game isn't as popular as it should be is because it defies easy classification: people aren't sure how to sell it, not just to others but also, for some, to themselves.
As I always point out, there is a genre that describes Cross Game. It's called a Coming of Age story. A coming of age story is all about the events in life that cause a boy to say: "I am no longer a child, now, I am a man." (Or girl to say "Now I am a woman.") When exactly does that change happen in life?

Traditionally "coming of age" is usually depicted as occurring during one of the following two events:

1: Love and Romance, with the following subcategories
  • First Love (pretty common for innocent teenage romances)
  • Second Love (sometimes this can even occur to older characters who are widowed)
  • Losing Virginity (these are usually the more crude stories)
  • Commitment or Marriage (This is the more traditional story as the previous subcategories used to be expected to lead to marriage)
  • Birth of a Child (this is sometimes a bridge to the second category of Coming of Age stories)

2: Confronting Death, with the following subcategories
  • Death of a Loved One (most commonly a parent or other relative, but sometimes a love interest, occasionally juxtaposed with the Birth of a Child subcategory under romance)
  • War (both the act of killing and the death of comrades, often competitive sports are substituted for warfare in more peaceful times.)
  • Wilderness Survival (Sometimes extended to survival in the "urban jungle" if for some reason the child is separated from his parents)
  • Hunting aka First Kill (Going out hunting and getting your first kill, sometimes toned down to getting your first gun, or modernized with getting your first job).

Well done Coming of Age stories are noted for extensive character development. As you can see Romance often overlaps with coming of age stories, and which one you primarily tag it as probably depends on emphasis.

Maison Ikkoku for example is primarily a romantic comedy, but it clearly has coming of age aspects for both Godai (Marriage and Commitment) and Kyoko (Second Love). In fact this is why Yagami is so important to the story despite how annoying fans find her. She also has a coming of age element (First Love) that stands in contrast to the more mature themes for Godai and Kyoko.

Cross Game is clearly a coming of age story. It deals with:
  • First Love (Wakaba)
  • Second Love (Aoba)
  • Death of a Loved One (Wakaba for both Kou and Aoba)
  • Competitive Sports (baseball)

And the selection of baseball is no accident. Baseball has traditionally held a special place in the annals of coming of age stories. Almost all baseball stories ''are'' coming of age stories, and of a specific flavor too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboygo View Post
True dat, true dat. Even if you are into Cross Game for the romance, at least be aware that the competetive athletics is an essential element of that romance. The story telling conventions of a sports romance are different from that of a regular romance. Even the target audience is different. A conventional romance will have an overwhelmingly female viewership. A sports romance tends to to better with the male demographic.

And, alas, it has to be baseball, and specifically, high school baseball. Cross Game cannot be done within the context of any other sport. This is because no other sport in Japan boasts an event that has even half the historical prestige, mystique and universal fascination as the summer Koshien. For a storyteller, the word "Koshien" is like a magic shortcut. Just throw it in and it automatically conjures deep-seated feelings of excitement, exhilaration (or heartbreak, as the case may be) and nostalgia that will resonate with almost any Japanese person with fond memories of high school.
It's not just Japan, this is very true for America too. Only baseball has the mystique necessary for this kind of story. It's one of the reasons I've said that Cross Game could take place in any small American town. American football can come close in nostalgia for Americans (at least at the college and highschool levels.)

Baseball for some reason provides a link to childhood. Many, many people feel this, I know I do, although I can't really explain why. Baseball's enduring innocence extends even into the professional level, (despite all the scandals, baseball still has that emotional element). Bittersweet nostalgia is one of the main emotions generated by baseball, and it's a useful emotion to have when telling a coming of age story. Particularly a slow moving, and deeply emotional one like Cross Game.

Last edited by Sackett; 2009-08-30 at 18:45.
Sackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 17:49   Link #844
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
That sounds more like a descriptor than a literally genre though. (at least I couldn't find any source that recognizes it as a proper genre). However, it fits the bill so maybe we should just go with that.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 18:12   Link #845
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
It is indeed a genre dating back many centuries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungsroman

And one I've actually requested in the Suggestions thread, as its one of my favorites. The proper definition is a bit different than what Sackett laid out, but bildungsromans are basically what we're talking about. Another overlapping but slightly different genre is what we'd call the "rite of passage" story.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 18:30   Link #846
apropervillain
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboygo View Post
I just finished watching the latest episode and...
Spoiler for filler material:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well this show can't be consistently awesome every week right? With a few regular episodes here and there it gives more chances for my pants to burst into flames when something great comes around again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Denka View Post
This is where I have somewhat different opinions from you, because I absolutely adored this episode - and will likely love next episode even more. The anime managed to give something that always bothered me in the original...

Spoiler:


Then again, I'm also biased because I adore Aoba



I agree, SynergySP did well to expand upon the canon world here. Even if its purpose was filler - it still managed to add something valuable to the story. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they'd run the idea past Adachi before deciding on the filler content so it just feels like what Adachi would've done if he could afford to have filler chapters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poko-kun View Post
Even manga is on going but the fact is they have a lot of materials to use so why bother with filler?
Spoiler for Filler, is it going to affect the plot?:

Anyway, I wonder what will happen next
Fight-to Ao-chan!


BTW
My 2cent; Azuma needs moar screen time.
It's not exactly filler. If I remember correctly, don't quote me on this, in the manga there was a part where they stated Aoba passed the preliminary tryouts for the women's national team or for some other women's team, but she did not participate after the first tryout. I think what the anime is doing is providing backstory or expanding on that part of the manga.
apropervillain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 18:36   Link #847
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Well, there seems to be two definitions of filler which float around the interwebs. #1 is a story which doesn't particularly advance the plot. #2 is any scene that wasn't in the original source.

By #2, it seems like its filler.

P.S. You don't have to quote every single post next time...
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 18:50   Link #848
Aquifina
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Baseball for some reason provides a link to childhood. Many, many people feel this, I know I do, although I can't really explain why. Baseball's enduring innocence extends even into the professional level, (despite all the scandals, baseball still has that emotional element). Bittersweet nostalgia is one of the main emotions generated by baseball, and it's a useful emotion to have when telling a coming of age story. Particularly a slow moving, and deeply emotional one like Cross Game.
I think part of it is that baseball is much more a truly child's game than American football--there are, of course, kids who play football with pads, but because of its full contact nature, it'll never be as much a kids' game as baseball and soccer. But while soccer is even more of a kid-friendly game (no complicated equipment, fewer specialized skills to master), soccer still seems "foreign" to most Americans, even though in terms of raw numbers, it's supposed to be the largest youth sports in the US.

Baseball is also, of course, the oldest of the major American sports--it has the longest history, and it still carries the markers of nineteenth-century America--there's no clock, for example, in baseball, which makes it different from all the other major sports. And its virtues make it more family-friendly; games are cheaper, and the charms of football (violence and complexity) and basketball (pure athleticism) make them less suited to children and families. Baseball also has one advantage (and I'm biased here)--it's a game fundamentally premised on failure. A player can still make the hall of fame with a career where he makes out 60 percent of the time, or more even (and, of course, that's assuming a walk is never a failure, which is a debatable assertion--I'm assuming on-base-percentage as the metric here). And while football is far more violent, there's something especially fragile about a pitcher, who always seems one pitch away from a catastrophic injury. The sport is humbling in a profound way, and while every day is a new day and offers the hope of redemption, there's also the perpetual chance of failure, which more often than not occurs.

My impression is that the sport appeals to certain strands in Japanese culture and society--the pitcher/batter contest is something akin to a duel between samurai, but the game still depends on teamwork; the ups and downs of a baseball season put a special value on a sort-of stoic level-headedness, which I think appeals to the Japanese; the importance of technical skills as opposed to pure athleticism also appeals to the practice-heavy mentality of the Japanese. But at the end of the day, I really don't quite understand why exactly baseball is so popular in Japan. Which is fine... the Japanese have made the game their own, and I get a real kick of seeing the different styles of baseball played in the US and Japan.
Aquifina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 19:26   Link #849
Major1138
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
I think part of it is that baseball is much more a truly child's game than American football--there are, of course, kids who play football with pads, but because of its full contact nature, it'll never be as much a kids' game as baseball and soccer. But while soccer is even more of a kid-friendly game (no complicated equipment, fewer specialized skills to master), soccer still seems "foreign" to most Americans, even though in terms of raw numbers, it's supposed to be the largest youth sports in the US.

Baseball is also, of course, the oldest of the major American sports--it has the longest history, and it still carries the markers of nineteenth-century America--there's no clock, for example, in baseball, which makes it different from all the other major sports. And its virtues make it more family-friendly; games are cheaper, and the charms of football (violence and complexity) and basketball (pure athleticism) make them less suited to children and families. Baseball also has one advantage (and I'm biased here)--it's a game fundamentally premised on failure. A player can still make the hall of fame with a career where he makes out 60 percent of the time, or more even (and, of course, that's assuming a walk is never a failure, which is a debatable assertion--I'm assuming on-base-percentage as the metric here). And while football is far more violent, there's something especially fragile about a pitcher, who always seems one pitch away from a catastrophic injury. The sport is humbling in a profound way, and while every day is a new day and offers the hope of redemption, there's also the perpetual chance of failure, which more often than not occurs.

My impression is that the sport appeals to certain strands in Japanese culture and society--the pitcher/batter contest is something akin to a duel between samurai, but the game still depends on teamwork; the ups and downs of a baseball season put a special value on a sort-of stoic level-headedness, which I think appeals to the Japanese; the importance of technical skills as opposed to pure athleticism also appeals to the practice-heavy mentality of the Japanese. But at the end of the day, I really don't quite understand why exactly baseball is so popular in Japan. Which is fine... the Japanese have made the game their own, and I get a real kick of seeing the different styles of baseball played in the US and Japan.
I wouldn't call baseball "fundamentally premised on failure" - the implication of the phrase is that the measure of greatness is somewhat lesser than in other sports, when it's very much not the case - as with all things, statistics depend on context.

That being said, the very nature of the pitcher-batter confrontation is very much a zero-sum game: either the pitcher prevails or the batter does. And it's only once the ball is in play that anyone else can influence the outcome, which is somewhat different than other sports - baseball is very much a collection of individual efforts amalgamated in a team (at least the offensive side of the equation) - while it is possible for a "star player" to allow a team to punch above it's weight, even the greatest running back goes nowhere without his offensive line to block for him, and the greatest point guard can't carry a bunch of stiffs up and down the basketball court all day.
Major1138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 19:55   Link #850
leongsh
Daijoubu!
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malaysia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
It is indeed a genre dating back many centuries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungsroman
I'm not too sure whether Cross Game would fall under this genre but Major definitely would. Heck, it could be the one of the best examples of one in anime.
leongsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 20:54   Link #851
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
Just watched the subs. I liked this episode. Aoba deserves her own development that isn't always directly connected to Kou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poko-kun View Post
Even manga is on going but the fact is they have a lot of materials to use so why bother with filler?
Spoiler for Filler, is it going to affect the plot?:

Anyway, I wonder what will happen next
Fight-to Ao-chan!
Actually if anything I'd think it would make her pain more acute.
Sackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:12   Link #852
joeboygo
mechaii
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
As I always point out, there is a genre that describes Cross Game. It's called a Coming of Age story.
Well said, Sackett. It's too bad the people that would get the most from your comment will likely not see it. Anybody that can read your post on this forum has obviously already found Cross Game.

Tags like "romance," "sports," "slice of life" (whatever the heck that is) etc. are used as a type of shorthand. Over time, usage among anime/manga afficionados on the internet has imbued these terms with a generally accepted meaning, and they are affixed to a title to allow browsers looking for something new to read or watch to learn at a glance what the story contains, if not what it is about. "Coming of Age" is a recognized descriptor within academic and literary circles, but I'm not so sure it has gained the same currency as a term of art among anime/manga forum habitues on the interwebs. In addition, even as you describe it, the term embraces quite a bit of territory, so it may be too broad to be that helpfull in this context. I wish people who don't yet know about Cross Game could spare the time to read your post. If that can't be worked out somehow, then I'm afraid the existing tags will have to do. And for those already enjoying Cross Game, categorizing it ought to be at the bottom of the to-do list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
It's not just Japan, this is very true for America too.
Wouldn't it be great if the US could sprout its own version of Adachi?
joeboygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:19   Link #853
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
You know what you lack people? You lack love for the series! Seriously. Why haven't I heard of this excellent series till now? Marathoned 20 episodes in 3 days and I'm hard pressed to decide if I like this series more than Kemono no Souja for my personal anime of the year title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
It's better that no one knows about it. It's like our little club

But seriously, it's not our fault that "slow-paced slice of life involving baseball" drives 99% of anime fans away at first glance.
My guess is that you two are from the west (most likely the US). Adachi is pretty well known in Japan. Still, gratz on joining the party. Now hurry up and go read his other works.
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:24   Link #854
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Quote:
Adachi is pretty well known in Japan
Which is great, but we're on Animesuki, and Adachi is not well known on Animesuki or the fansub community Adachi being known in Japan is not particularly secret knowledge, but thanks anyways.

BTW The ratings for Cross Game seem to be a far cry from what Touch used to enjoy (1-3% vs. over 30%). Wonder if this is just due to the "times changing".
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:39   Link #855
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Which is great, but we're on Animesuki, and Adachi is not well known on Animesuki or the fansub community Adachi being known in Japan is not particularly secret knowledge, but thanks anyways.

BTW The ratings for Cross Game seem to be a far cry from what Touch used to enjoy (1-3% vs. over 30%). Wonder if this is just due to the "times changing".
Really? Tons of his manga have been translated into English... long before Cross Game...

Welcome to the modern world... yeah... TV rating in the '80s are higher than '09... OMG, really?
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:40   Link #856
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
Quote:
My guess is that you two are from the west (most likely the US). Adachi is pretty well known in Japan. Still, gratz on joining the party. Now hurry up and go read his other works.
I'm actually from Mexico, bu yeah, it's a shame that I hadn't heard of this guy before. I've started watching Touch last Thursday, and while it starts quite slow and the characters are a little wishy washy for my liking, it is still quite a joy to read.

Quote:
Wonder if this is just due to the "times changing".
I'd say it is more of crappy marketing on behalf of the Cross game producers. As I mentioned, I've been watching (I'm up to ep 20) and, while it's good, you can see that Adachi has not been idle these last 20 years, and his style and caracterization capability has improved a lot.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:46   Link #857
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Quote:
Really? Tons of his manga have been translated into English... long before Cross Game...
Lots of manga are fantranslated into English. What's your point?

Quote:
TV rating in the '80s are higher than '09... OMG, really?
Again, not seeing the point being made here.
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:51   Link #858
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Lots of manga are fantranslated into English. What's your point?



Again, not seeing the point being made here.
Sure lots of manga are fantranslated but how many have 10 different series translated with the same author?

Oh and that last comment was a "No shit Sherlock..." Sorry if you missed it...
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 21:58   Link #859
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Quote:
Oh and that last comment was a "No shit Sherlock..." Sorry if you missed it...
Quote:
TV rating in the '80s are higher than '09... OMG, really?
Maybe you don't know this, but Touch is the highest rated anime ever, before and since its run. You'll have to explain to me how it is "no shit sherlock" that Cross Game has one of the poorer showings this year, both relative to other anime and in absolute terms, assuming Adachi's popularity. I like the sarcasm, though.

Quote:
Sure lots of manga are fantranslated but how many have 10 different series translated with the same author?
The ones that have enough dedicated fans who will translate them. Just like the entire Touch anime was translated by Central Anime (thank you CA) despite the fact that a relatively tiny percent of the online anime community is even aware of it. I'm not sure I see how this negates the part of my post you quoted, that Adachi is not well known in the fansub community/Animesuki.
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-30, 22:06   Link #860
DeX-kun
Alto x Ranka :)
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Well I just finished watching the latest episode and aside from the fact that this is a filler episode, it's one of the best fillers that I've been exposed to As much as Aoba wants to deny it, she's pretty excited to play and it seems to be tickling her competitive nature. No one knows Aoba better than Kou and from the looks of things, he'll be reading her mind all throughout the next episode

Initially, I was not fond of the drawing style but the synopsis was too interesting to pass up, and I'm glad that I'm currently following this underrated anime. It just goes to show you that you don't necessarily need the most complicated drawing styles out there to create an anime as good as Cross Game.
__________________

"Aishiteru ~ I Love You"
DeX-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
baseball, drama, romance, school life, shounen, sports

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.