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View Poll Results: Clannad - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 211 60.81%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 49 14.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 6.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 5.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 19 5.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.86%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 0.86%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.58%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.86%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 4.03%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-13, 17:16   Link #281
darry
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Cant Believe People complaining about this when its obvious Clannad hasnt anything to do with Reality, the Magic Parts are there since Episode1 u should have stopped there...


Great End as expected, just sad its over now after 2 Years
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:17   Link #282
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
This is my problem with the message. It's basically saying that being a good enough person means bad things won't happen to you. That life will reward you for good deeds. Everyone here's probably lost someone important to them, how's that message make you feel?
May I refer you to the posts a few of us made a few pages earlier? I think we pretty much hammered out what might tick watchers off about the ending. And how the ending can be made acceptable at the same time.

Ah, here you go, one of the more coherent posts of that cycle:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=152
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Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2009-03-13 at 17:31.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:19   Link #283
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Although it'll never be confirmed either way, there's the ED. Sugisaka and Rie are the only pair holding hands. Not even the three married couples, the Furukawas, the Yoshinos and the Okazakis, are. Why them?
Because KEY is unsubtle as a train moving at 100 miles per hour without breaks?
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:20   Link #284
angel_wing0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darry View Post
Great End as expected, just sad its over now after 2 Years
indeed...now my thursdays will feel empty.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:32   Link #285
Ithekro
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Still got at least one more episode, perhaps two.

Also you could replace your Thurdsay viewing with either K-On! or Haruhi after Clannad ends.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:40   Link #286
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Haruhi? Don't you mean Duke Nukem Forever?
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:43   Link #287
Myssa Rei
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Haruhi? Don't you mean Duke Nukem Forever?
Ha ha, not really subtle there Sheba.

We still have one more episode, or rather, pre-episode.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:47   Link #288
Proto
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I was actually going to start replying to KS messages as I promised yesterday but I got tired just by reading at the 200 posts of "wash, rinse, repeat" type of argumentation this thread has gone by, so I instead propose a new argumentation system to simplify this, based on the reuse philosophy of OOP.

1. I didn't like the ending because it gave of a Deus ex Machina feeling, thus kind of negating all the build up since ep. 16.
2. I liked the ending since it came in full cycle with the values CLANNAD has been conveying since the start, and thus is in line with CLANNAD being more of a thematic series than a character oriented series.
3. I disagree with 1, since the Deus Ex Machina doesn't apply, given that the conclusion was in line with all the hints the series gave out since ep.1 Furthermore, it's not that ep 16-21 were magically invalidated, they were necessary for the character to reach 22.
4. I disagree with 1 since the series was never intended to be a realist 1:1 with life kind of series. The genre was clearly magical realism since day 1, so a conclusion of this type was completely foreseable and in line with the genre
5. I disagree with 2/3/4 since it took away all sympathy once could feel for the characters, and instead transformed it into a fairy tale, with a happy ever after kind of ending.

Now feel free to post and just say

Quote:
Originally Posted by poster a
one

Quote:
Originally Posted by poster b
Quote:
Originally Posted by poster a
one
three
Quote:
Originally Posted by poster a
Quote:
Originally Posted by poster b
Quote:
Originally Posted by poster a
one
three
five
And so on, that will save us from all the repetitiveness that this thread has dumped itself into, and we will be able to concentrate in whatever those posters who actually have something new to say.

Disclaimer: The previous post was not directed at anyone in particular, however if you remotely feel that I was referring to you, then by all means feel free to use my discussion guidelines
PS: I can update my list as necessary

[/snarky]


My personal favorite part in this final episode:

In the series ending proper, and before Fuuko ninja'd epillogue, the final scene wasn't of Nagisa, or of Ushio or of any other character, but of Tomoya and Naoyuki walking hand by hand in that flower field.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:56   Link #289
typhonsentra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
May I refer you to the posts a few of us made a few pages earlier? I think we pretty much hammered out what might tick watchers off about the ending. And how the ending can be made acceptable at the same time.

Ah, here you go, one of the more coherent posts of that cycle:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=152
I dunno, that post you linked to while acknowledging most of the complaints just comes to the conclusion that he liked it and that's what matters. It's fine for the author but it doesn't really mean much except to those that already agree with him.

But as for there being meaning to 17-21 by the matter of them leading up to the creation of the illusionary world and therefore the time reset: It's still a reset, and one that the characters themselves don't even appear to remember (This is debatable I know and maybe there's something in the game that clarifies). Nothing tangible carries over from the former world, not even the way the character's felt or experienced.
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Old 2009-03-13, 17:56   Link #290
alu546
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I gess the people informing us of what clannad is "really" about either
A) Mustve not realized that the way the sshow presented itself confused a multitude of people.

or

B) They let the ending dictate the meaning of the series instead of the other way around compared to what the people with the problems with the endng had.

Ill go with a combination of both since they seem logical. It's not a flame, just a conclusion I drew up to describe the lapse in communication we are all having.

And Ill say it againm the ending was not even within the same ballpark that the plot of the show had led up to, and the ending didnt live up to the story presented, thus the deus ex machina "perception.'.

Someone should tell Yukine that if the toown she lived in really liked her, her brother would still be alive

If you have to look closely to find a meaning or logical possibility to the conclusion, that simply means that the story didnt expand upon those ideas enough.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:05   Link #291
McMilk
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Overall I found the ending quite deux ex machina... as mentioned by Proto. However, I did like the fact that they didn't forget about the old characters, and showed how they're like right now.

Especially Kotomi, I mean, what is she now? She looks so gangster
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:07   Link #292
Proto
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Quote:
Overall I found the ending quite deux ex machina... as mentioned by Proto.
I hear your 1 and top it with a three. I only mentioned the Deus Ex Machina as a possible position one can take, but I totally disagree with the notion that this was a Deus ex Machina, in the classical literary sense off the word.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:09   Link #293
Ithekro
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Tomoya seems to have memory of past/future events given his reactions to Nagisa and Ushio upon his return to the "real world", as does to some extent Fuuko since she recognized Ushio's scent from some distance away. Or more over she has a percention of events in the other world as she picked up on the scent even though she didn't seem to recognize Ushio (though to be fair she saw the Illusionary Girl first). But then Fuuko was always a weird girl and she considered Tomoya a weird person. Maybe they are closer the perception border for Kotomi's partent's string theory-ish idea.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:17   Link #294
Leo_Otaku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alu546 View Post
And Ill say it againm the ending was not even within the same ballpark that the plot of the show had led up to, and the ending didnt live up to the story presented, thus the deus ex machina "perception.'.

Someone should tell Yukine that if the toown she lived in really liked her, her brother would still be alive
It is obvious over and over and over thorough out the entire series. Hints from other characters, images seen, the point of having other characters stories is for this end.

Um see this is exactly why it is annoying to have people say things when they don't even get what has happened.

I just see people seeing why certain parts are there for what reason. I think people feel cheated because they couldn't see it coming and probably don't even get it.

Last edited by Leo_Otaku; 2009-03-13 at 18:41.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:18   Link #295
Isekaijin
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What can I say?

Damn perfect. Exactly what I expected of the end.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:21   Link #296
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nagisa's feet must be dirty after walking on the ground without a shoe.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:27   Link #297
Master Chibi
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If I want to stay true to what I said last week, the result is that I liked this ending (more so that I accepted it actually). Ushio is alive and kicking, which is what I wanted.

If I want to stay true to what I feel right now, the result is that I don't like the ending at all. I've never connected with the other magical world angle, and I've been watching since they started using the gimmick since the first episode. It was never appealing, I always considered them the most boring, repetitive, distracting portions of the episodes they were shown in, and now that it's all come to climax in this final episode it's done one thing and one thing only for me.

Nothing.

All I got were feelings of cop out, and I had to control myself from rolling my eyes so far back into my skull that I would have pulled a muscle somehow.

Even if you sit here and tell me that the show is deeply rooted in magical bullshit, it's still a reset, and that's 100% the lamest way to treat any story. You don't make me feel for the characters so damn hard and then just throw some pixie dust all over the damn situation while hitting your heels three times together to fix it all. With these type of endings you don't actually enjoy it, you just accept it or you don't, and again, that's a horrible thing to put upon your audience, isn't it?

Gah.

I'm happy to be mad, and I'm mad that I'm happy.

Clannad is being Clannad.

God damn it.

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Old 2009-03-13, 18:29   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Tomoya seems to have memory of past/future events given his reactions to Nagisa and Ushio upon his return to the "real world", as does to some extent Fuuko since she recognized Ushio's scent from some distance away. Or more over she has a percention of events in the other world as she picked up on the scent even though she didn't seem to recognize Ushio (though to be fair she saw the Illusionary Girl first). But then Fuuko was always a weird girl and she considered Tomoya a weird person. Maybe they are closer the perception border for Kotomi's partent's string theory-ish idea.
Philosophical Theory of Everything :3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_...ng_(philosophy)

And for you peeps! It's not a freaking RESET! Reset means disregard everything that happened. If you do that, then the journey would really be for nothing. It would mean that you, as a viewer never picked up anything from the past 16 to 21 episode because that time-line didn't happen.
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Last edited by dgreater1; 2009-03-13 at 18:41.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:40   Link #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku View Post
It is obvious over and over and over thorough out the entire series. Hints from other characters images seen the point of having other characters stories.

Um see this is exactly why it is annoying to have people say things when they don't even get what has happened.

I just see people seeing why certain parts are there for what reason. I think people feel cheated because they couldn't see it coming and probably don't even get it.
It is because we dont get whats happening that we have a problem with the ending. I mean, many posts in this thread are confused as to whats happening, or why it is, or even the events that led up to it happening regardless of whether they liked the ending or not.

Apparently, its not obvious, the mere fact that a goodsized portion are confused reaffirms my claim that the anime wasnt expansive enough on the topic.
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Old 2009-03-13, 18:43   Link #300
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Originally Posted by dgreater1 View Post
And for you peeps! It's not a freaking RESET! Reset means disregard everything that happened. If you do that, then the journey would really be for nothing. It would mean that you, as a viewer never picked up anything from the past 16 to 21 episode because that time-line didn't happen.
Journey schmourney, it's a reset.

You can sugar coat and rainbow sprinkle the hell out of it and it's still going to be a reset.
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