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View Poll Results: Clannad - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 211 60.81%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 49 14.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 6.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 20 5.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 19 5.48%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.86%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 0.86%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 0.58%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 3 0.86%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 4.03%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-14, 17:30   Link #421
Kristen
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Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou View Post
Uuu >_< I did not like that. Now she looks like one of my quintessentially Asian-American aunts in the US. Not cute at all. Mei on the other hand...

It's fantastic how the thread has turned towards Schrödinger's cat. I'd love to elaborate but I can't since I know zip about physics.

Here's a rather lame question: Do you believe in miracles? How about alternate worlds/dimensions?
I believe in miracles. I believe that if you believe hard enough that something is going to happen, it will. And I believe that there aren't alternate dimensions. Instead, there are all events happening bajillions of light years away at the same time.
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Old 2009-03-14, 18:45   Link #422
FTV
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Hmm... so I guess this show was essentially just a crying anime... possibly the ULTIMATE crying anime... but yeah, in the end, I don't think it offered anything else. Still, the show definitely worked on me so if someone is looking for this kind of thing I would certainly recommend it.
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:03   Link #423
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A miracle happened with time and they're back to normal, I see. I loved that insert song btw.
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:15   Link #424
Justin Kim
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Wait can anyone explain that Fuko ending to me? I wasn't really sure cuz' what is the significance behind Fuko finding older Ushio sleeping underneath a tree first, and then the scene swaps towards little Ushio sleeping underneath a tree in the same position? Can anyone tell me exactly what happened with that "orbs of light / miracle stuff," I really don't get it. I keep thinking that the town's curse was broken, but Tomoya and Nagisa were sacrificed. With that last scene, are Tomoya and Nagisa presently alive? T_T Is Ushio alive?
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:21   Link #425
Littm
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This is a great finale like it should be. This ending deserves absolutely highest rating because you will not see something like this every day. One of the best and "complete" endings for some previous years. They showed it just like I thought. A perfect work with the original stuff - that's why I like KyoAni and can even forgive them some strange things like Munto or LS design in some episodes of Clannad. This is a perfect example for every studio. They showed again how every studio should adapt visual novels and work with the original stuff.

Perfect, KyoAni, It's a perfect 10.
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:30   Link #426
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Since my last post I think I've finally come to a better understanding of the ending now and because of that I feel a lot more appreciation and satisfaction towards it. I was put off and in disbelief at first because i didn't really understand, thus 'accept' what was going on during the ending. But now after allowing some food for thought and time for digestion, the ending isn't so lacklustre as i first thought it was.

The events between that of Nagisa and Ushio's deaths don't seem as cheapened anymore either. This is because without these crucial events the miracle would've never happened. Without the love for and from her father developed during this time, Ushio would never had had built the toy robot for Tomoya's soul/orb to reside in, thus allowing Tomoya an opportunity to realise his miracle wish.

After a better understanding of the orbs along with their importance, the miracle "do-over" aspect of the ending doesn't seem as contrived as first thought. These orbs had the powers to grant ones wish when obtained and allowed for Tomoya's miracle to come true. A similar miracle happened to Shima-the-cat and Misae, so why couldn't it happen again here with Tomoya? The only difference here being that Tomoya is asking for a lot more than Shima and he was lucky enough that the orbs were able to fulfill it.

I guess when it all came down to it, I needed to get how it all worked first before I could truly appreciate the ending for what it was. It was all just a matter of reading between the lines really.

One thing that I'm still left rather clueless on is the ending to the Fuko epilogue where she finds a sleeping Ushio (with images of Illusionary Ushio Girl as well). I know this scene has to have some importance since it was alluded to in the 1st seasons OP...
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:41   Link #427
Sheba
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One thing that I'm still left rather clueless on is the ending to the Fuko epilogue where she finds a sleeping Ushio (with images of Illusionary Ushio Girl as well). I know this scene has to have some importance since it was alluded to in the 1st seasons OP...
It's not really a big deal imo. It's Ushio and Fuuko befriending. Another guess would be a sense of déjà-vu on Fuuko's part, as a slight memory of the other world (the one with bad end).

The ending gets a 7/10 from me. I liked it, but it felt a little less intense compared to episode 18. However, seeing their earned happy ending drew a Joker-like wide smile on my face.

Even if the ending is rated a little lower than I usually do, the sum of the whole series will get a higher rating from me.
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:49   Link #428
npal
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*facepalm
*huge facepalm

Yeah, Key... Yeah, I saw it coming...
I don't even have the will to rant for something like that. And here I thought Kanon was the worst Deus ex Machina the world has ever seen...

Such a good series coming into such a totally copout solution... It was even much worse than I had initially anticipated. Sure the ending is heart-warming and all that but that's all it is. I could watch up to the middle before Nagisa died, then watch the ending, that would have made a normal romantic, cute series that can actually stand on its own without Key pulling stuff (again) out of their behinds. Since they went with that, Clannad should have ended on ep 20 and erase any mention of Ushio's illness, it will still fit and it will be so much better than the first case. The story of Tomoya and Ushio and how they finally found each other was really great... But noooo, they just have to do it like that... (Yay for the balls of light, Boku Ayu simply pales in comparison...)

Ah well, whatever, I don't even want to argue about it. For such a great series to end like that... what a total, absolute, waste... Not to mention Fuko's appearance... O_o

On the bright side, the ending had a nice feel even though I feel it's beyond retarded at this time and place in this series, and all clannad girls (esp grown up Mei) are ftw.

Last edited by npal; 2009-03-15 at 06:00. Reason: spelling >_<
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:53   Link #429
DragoZERO
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I'm glad its a happy ending, obviously, but it was a little uneventful for a final episode.

Having Fuko at the end was good but its not the same without Tomoya's quips against her silliness.

The only eye opening part was that the girl in the other world was in fact Ushio and not Nagisa.

I think I would have preferred if Nagisa and Ushio didn't die at all but I'm not sure. Their deaths were necessary in a way except there was no big revelation on Tomoya's part about him making both Nagisa and Ushio happy, even if their lives were short.

Overall the emotions involved in this series are indeed vast and the themes are genuinely noble and good.

I really don't know what to feel about the ending I guess. I'll just take it at face value for now: it was a happy ending which in turn makes me happy.
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Old 2009-03-14, 19:57   Link #430
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WOW! OMG OMG OMG OMG!

Realy, it toutched me. The makers of clannad topped themself. This is so awsomeness!
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:02   Link #431
Proto
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Such a good series coming into such a totally cop out solution... It was even much worse than I had initially anticipated. Sure the ending is heart-warming and all that but that's all it is. I could watch up to the middle before Nagisa died, then watch the ending, that would have made a normal romantic, cute series that can actually stand on its own without Key pulling stuff (again) out of their behinds. Since they went with that, Clannad should have ended on ep 20 and erase any mention of Ushio's illness, it will still fit and it will be so much better than the first case. The story of Tomoya and Ushio and how they finally found each other was really great... But noooo, they just have to do it like that... (Yay for the balls of light, Boku Ayu simply pales in comparison...)
Well yeah, we have discussed that to death already in this thread. My reply to your argument is best summarized here and here
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:10   Link #432
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22 pages in just couple of days. Could that be a new record?

Well, on the ending of the main episode(without fuuko), its interesting to see, where all the chars will be. Kotomi with(looks like red) red hair and her car looks interesting.
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:16   Link #433
chikorita157
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Wow... Episode 22 is a great ending and done without taping random miracles into one episode like Kanon's (2006 Remake) ending. As that said, this ending is a beautiful ending at the very least after what Tomoya have gone though. This doesn't mean that this ending makes the last 5 episodes meaningless because they are important in Tomoya's development as being a father and taking responsibility of raising Ushio with love without Nagisa in the last 5 episodes. With that, it made his miracle come true after he experiences hardship, which the girl thanks the Doll (Tomoya) near the ending of the illusionary world.

I thought the ending was almost perfect, but a little flawed... We know that making a non-linear Visual Novel into a linear story Anime is pretty tough stuff, but at the end, Kyoto Animation did a great job on it. That said, this episode gets a 9.7/10.

Now... I have to find another Romance Drama anime....
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:17   Link #434
Sheba
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22 pages in just couple of days. Could that be a new record?

Well, on the ending of the main episode(without fuuko), its interesting to see, where all the chars will be. Kotomi with(looks like red) red hair and her car looks interesting.
22 pages worth of shitstorm, nerd rage and FACEPALM.
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:24   Link #435
Ryuou
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Damn, did this take forever to read. Okay, let's see what I have to say.

First off, I guess, the Fuuko part didn't bother me so much. I enjoyed her arc in the first season somewhat, but then her reappearances kind of annoyed me. I really liked her in AS though, and as she was funny along her AS self in the ending, I didn't mind it much and actually somewhat enjoyed it. (Although it would’ve been much better with a Tomoya combi) Whether it should've been there or not, that's debatable.

On to this episode as an ending though, I'm very happy that everybody was able to be happy together, but how that was facilitated didn't make me very happy. I guess what I had the most problem with was how it all was(n't) explained. I guess I wanted the subtleties surrounding the process that revived Nagisa to have been a little clearer so it would’ve been easier to understand, and thus accept. Without the game players around, it would’ve been hard for most of us to understand. Also, among most of the posters who defend the ending (not that I oppose it, my only beef is stated), I notice several different explanations for it. So it could’ve used more work there. All in all I don’t think the fantastical element in Clannad was handled as well as it could’ve, and more times than not it just felt like it was “there” instead of having a degree of significance. And so I can see why the ending was a fantasy slap in the face to some people.

I like how the little girl in the IW was Ushio and not Nagisa. I didn’t really see that coming. I look forward to what the next 2 extra episodes may be. They should be fun.
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:32   Link #436
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Roflmao. I skipped to the middle since I don't really like the snow part with ushio/robot tomoya and i see Nagisa waking up. I was like wtf...?

Saw whole ep. It was touching. Not enough to bring me to tears like the others though. Enjoyed seeing Ushio growing up with Nagisa and Tomoya together.

The Fuko part was a bit random. Have to say I have to feel sorry for her sister lol. Though I'm sure she doesn't mind. I agree. Fuko parts aren't just right without Tomoya to make fun of her lol. It would have been better if she ran off and saw the 3 of them and Tomoya makes of her with Fuko going into star-mode holding Ushio.
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:43   Link #437
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Roflmao. I skipped to the middle since I don't really like the snow part with ushio/robot tomoya and i see Nagisa waking up. I was like wtf...?
Sir, you just managed to do what no other one of the naysayers did, you left me completely speechless.
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Old 2009-03-14, 20:56   Link #438
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Nonsensical parallel story + Deus ex machina (I don't care it's a bloody deus ex machina) + Fuuko =

Why do you do this to me Kyoani? WHY?! ;________;

It was all going so well too... Won't anybody write a really good tragedy and end it properly?

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Old 2009-03-14, 21:01   Link #439
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I felt the ending with the endless Fuuko "Ask me what I smell." was a waste of valuable time that could've been spent on more meaningful things, such as showing the "new" lives of the different characters.
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Old 2009-03-14, 21:01   Link #440
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22 pages is seriously intimidating, and I'm not going to read them before I post my own thoughts, so I can post them as raw and unperturbed as possible. I'm almost certainly not saying anything new, so if I'm saying things which have already been addressed, don't bother addressing them again. I'll read the thread as soon as I finish this post.

Was it a cop-out? Parts of it were. The revive/s was/were. The fact that Tomoya was given the most perfect time possible for his "second attempt" was (ie, just before Nagisa died). The fact that the city was akin to a divine force which was both responsible for Tomoya's loss and anguish but also for him magically getting his happy ending was. But, I've never been big on stories which resort to divinity to solve problems. That was why I was such a big fan of Kaiji's ending, which was an explicit antithesis to the idea that one can find solace in prayer.

I also think, from an execution point of view, it was kinda rushed. Just why had the city cursed Nagisa and Ushio? Tomoya seemed to unconsciously recognize that there was some sort of tenuous link between their health and the state of the city. But, nothing to do with the city was ever addressed or changed. Why did it punish the Okazaki family so hard and then suddenly decided that they had suffered enough at Tomoya's darkest moment? I wrote that I thought Nagisa's death had some reasonable thematic elegance, particularly when you consider how much character development it spurred in Tomoya, but I thought Ushio's death was unnecessarily cruel and given how quickly/easily he got her back, I still can't see the point of it.

The ending gets kudos for tying pretty much everything up. Except for the stuff about just why the city had cursed Nagisa and Ushio and what anyone had done to change the city's mind on the matter, I can't think of any loose ends. I liked Tomoya's realization that, despite all that happened, he couldn't bring himself to regret meeting Nagisa, and I liked Nagisa's reaction to that within that moment. And I absolutely loved the Fuko scene. I'm not sure what it was about that scene, but the playful character-centric humour kinda delivered the series back to a tone that was more reminiscent of the first season. It was almost like a moment of respite, but it worked so well as an ending. It was also a chance to see the interaction between Fuko and Ibuki-sensei, something I don't think we've seen prior to this (at least for this length of time), which was really entertaining, but also interesting from the point of view that their relationship is clearly at the core of both characters. I think people underestimate just how important Fuko is to Clannad's story, but I liked this scene because it emphasized this (yes, she was misused quite poorly after her arc in the first season, but I still think the arc itself ranks as one of the best in Clannad).

So there are good and bad things about the ending, and while there was nothing in this quite as powerful as what happened between eps 16-19, there wasn't anything so objectionable to change my overall impression of the series. Yes, I would have liked a better ending, maybe something that wasn't so rushed, but I think they dug themselves a hole by killing off Ushio, and this was probably the only way they could get out of it.
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