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Old 2009-11-15, 13:34   Link #1281
vaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
I have a question, are the English subs direct translations, because sometimes I feel the translastions are sometimes made up?
gg, at least, has a tendency to change wordings or occasionally make completely new sentences so that the English fits better (Kämpfer Akane's rough language would be much less distinguishable if directly translated, for instance). Make of that what you will.
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Old 2009-11-15, 14:13   Link #1282
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
sometimes I feel the translastions are sometimes made up?
Your feelings are not far off.

There are groups that do make up stuff.

They are lazy.

The very first sub of Bakemonogatari episode 1 that I got my hands on was totally made up... that group will never get my mouse clicks again.

You have to rely only on the more serious, dedicated and "mature" sub groups.

Sub groups that have integrity are not hard to find.

Ohh and you have to spend some time trying to learn at least a little bit of Japanese to know when a sub is bull-shitting.
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Old 2009-11-15, 14:22   Link #1283
IronWarrior
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Ah that is a shame, even through I know you can't always have direct word to word translations, I would prefer as close as they can get it, guess it can't be helped.

So far, I only kinda learned a few Japanese words, just few of the most common, thank you, hello, good morning, idiot, words that often repeated over and over, lol :P
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Old 2009-11-15, 15:09   Link #1284
matterra
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I'm a lurker, but I just can't resist saying something in response (especially since I haven't yet seen any reply). My apologies beforehand if I've done something wrong since I'm not used to posting in forums and usually just post my reactions to my blog.

Spoiler for My not so positive thoughts on arguments on Shizuku:
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Old 2009-11-15, 16:56   Link #1285
Mentar
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matterra, I think you're misunderstanding my intentions a little bit. I'm not a campaign manager of the "make the world worship Shizuku" movement, and so I'm not out to alter anyone's perceptions or opinions on her

So, if you dislike her, that's peachy with me. More power to you. And if my explanations why _I_ like her make you hate her, that's fine aswell. What would I be supposed to do? Shut up to avoid that?

I'll try to pick out the points you were trying to make which I'd like to comment on.

Quote:
But Natsuru does ask what Shizuku intends to do. More than once (I'm being conservative), it seems, and not just a few minutes after a fight either. However, Shizuku always brushes him off and/or distracts him (as someone said elsewhere in this thread--might even be you). Natsuru isn't a pushy (or particularly assertive) person (yeah, it's a weakness, but it's who he is), so he backs off.
As an example, watch episode 7. With a disgusted face, in an accusing voice, Natsuru demands to know what Shizuku's "objective" was. Asked in such a rude way, I wouldn't tell him either. However, she does tell him that she wants to investigate something.

Do we have an exchange of information? No, Natsuru rudely demands some from Shizuku, and she doesn't elaborate. And that's as far as he goes. Does he offer a truce or suggest some cooperation? No, he didn't (his demand was to keep Kaede safe). That was actually Shizuku's suggestion.

So far, pretty much all relevant information about the background has come from Shizuku (e.g. when she bought VIP time from Natsuru to tell him about the new Kämpfer). Can you remember any contribution from Natsuru/Akane other than his observation that all Entrail Animals have come from Kaede? I can't...

Quote:
Even you seem to just give excuses for her. For instance, why would she have to tell them anything since no one basically cares enough to ask?
Look - she's a red bracelet Kämpfer and been through her share of battles. I don't want to start pushing novel knowledge, so I'll just say that she has ample reason to personally hate the blue side. Now you expect her to explain the results of her prior investigations, to a bunch of blue fighters who show little concern about it? And not doing so is something which would have to be "excused"? Not in my universe, sorry. However, I guess she'll even do it soon, anyway.

Quote:
your arguments (and not so much of those you argue against) make me realize plenty of her faults and leave me pretty much unconvinced of her good side.*

*Does she even have any? Other than being calm and not freaking out over every single little thing, that is?
Okay - what are her "faults"? I can list her devious streak which loves to mess with people and put them in difficult/embarrassing situations (even though as an anime viewer, I consider this a big plus). What else?

Let's make a quick list of little things which have been beneficial for Natsuru:

- Enrolling him on the female side with a sufficient cover story to give him a safe haven when transformed
- Enabling him to spend more time with Kaede (multiple times, she's also helping Kaede here)
- Quelled the Yuri drama around him
- Saved him from Kaede discovery during Karaoke
- Saved Kaede from being shot by Akane (who was already pulling the trigger)
- Helped to stop Mikoto, quell the fight and forge a truce
- Reminded Natsuru of the deserted Kaede
- Drove off the White Kämpfer (who was about to retaliate)

No good sides? Really?

Quote:
Yeah, I'm being cynical. Personally, I've never found any character to be a breath of fresh air or some such (even compared to his/her own cast mates). Not even the characters I like.
We're deep in "personal preference" territory here. Sorry, but I have to say that the constant bickering between Sakura and Akane is beginning to grate on my nerves - because it's so predictable. Mikoto is a pleasant addition, but she's also not really part of any productive background investigation. Natsuru is the most reasonable aside from Shizuku, but he's mostly driven by the snow, almost purely reactive. The only character who proactively _does_ things seems to be Shizuku. Both on the investigation end, but also with her messing with people, which makes things more lively. And lively is good
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Old 2009-11-15, 17:19   Link #1286
Triple_R
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A key point that needs to be considered in Shizuku's defense is the red kampfer vs. blue kampfer situation.

How much sensitive information would you trust with a person that you might be forced to fight against again?

Shizuku has her flaws, sure, but she's level-headed and fairly reasonable.

I certainly don't agree with everything that she's done, but some of her decisions have been good, at least. Most importantly, perhaps, is that her decisions are calmly and coolly arrived at, even when they are arguably wrong.

She's the only character not being completely led around by his or her emotions, really.


Like Mentar, I grow tired of the Akane/Sakura battle for female Natsuru. Shizuku adds a little bit of unpredictability to it all, at least. Not much, but some.
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Old 2009-11-15, 18:50   Link #1287
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i was wondering what is the song that play in ending theme of kampfer
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Old 2009-11-15, 19:00   Link #1288
Midonin
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There are many resources to find this out, including ANN, Wikipedia, the official website, the ending credits, etc.
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Old 2009-11-15, 22:45   Link #1289
Full Metal Coast
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what you have to remember about shizuku is that she is a red kampfur and Akane and Natsuru are blue Kampfers when you look at the Kampfer battles Shizuku does not have to tell them anything. but what i really think she is doing is first trying to get some solid information/evidence to back up and confirm whatever she is thinking about the Kampfer battles. why would she tell anyone what she is thinking at this point anyway if she has no solid info to back her up.

also she is the only character i really fully respect in the series so far because she is trying to get to the bottom and maybe stop the Kampfer situation and also the only one thats being fair/true to Natsuru and letting him figure out his own feelings for each of the girls on his own but at the same time she has made it quite clear to him that she does like him and will now let him come to his own conclucions.

also on a side note each episode i watch i just hate Kaede more and more i just cant stand her and Akane hurry up and confess to Natsuru.
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Old 2009-11-15, 22:46   Link #1290
Velsy
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The one thing that wsa so bizzar about this episode was....... the rotten animals were moving around while in the presence of Sakura ? They were drinking and talking and surely Sakura would of worked that out. or maybe she already knows of the kamfpers ? she has a room full of intestine animals.

I've speculated about her earlier in the series as all the entrail dolls are coming from her. But now I speculate futher. Is she just being deceptive and turning a blind eye ? obviously she would of thought something strage when the alive entrails were drinking and talking.....

I know Shizuku has already speculated something from that room, tho its not clear. It just seems Shizuku is the only one whos trying to get to the bottom of this Kampfer thing. Find out whos setting up the show.

Storyline is already weak/flawed, but I just been watching cause its somewhat entertaining and funny.

Spoiler for episode 7:
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Old 2009-11-15, 22:57   Link #1291
vaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velsy View Post
the rotten animals were moving around while in the presence of Sakura ? They were drinking and talking and surely Sakura would of worked that out.
There was a disclaimer to the effect of "Sakura is too busy being infatuated with Natsuru to notice the animals" twice during the episode. ;)
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Old 2009-11-15, 23:20   Link #1292
Altima of the Gates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A key point that needs to be considered in Shizuku's defense is the red kampfer vs. blue kampfer situation.

How much sensitive information would you trust with a person that you might be forced to fight against again?

Shizuku has her flaws, sure, but she's level-headed and fairly reasonable.

I certainly don't agree with everything that she's done, but some of her decisions have been good, at least. Most importantly, perhaps, is that her decisions are calmly and coolly arrived at, even when they are arguably wrong.

She's the only character not being completely led around by his or her emotions, really.


Like Mentar, I grow tired of the Akane/Sakura battle for female Natsuru. Shizuku adds a little bit of unpredictability to it all, at least. Not much, but some.
Well obviously Akane is frustrated with this as well and would sooner just clue Kaede in on everything and end it, but Natsuru wouldn't want that, and Akane is trying to work in his best interests while stifling her own feelings. Shizuru can act calm cool and collected because like I said, this is like a game to her and she's got close to zero emotional investment in it besides humor. I'd seriously like the tables turned for once.

I'll honestly say that I might be the reverse of you and Mentar, I cannot stand characters who are made to be too intuitive and too intelligent, like someone brought in a Mary-Sue just to make the other characters look like chumps. Rubs me the wrong way. Not disagreeing with you two that she is helpful, I'm just pointing out a few things.

Also, Mentar, you say why should she relay information unless asked? Hasn't Natsuru asked before? I'd think two people in the dark like them would appreciate knowing more. Saying: 'well you didn't ask," is just holding out on someone. I don't see her revealing any cards she doesn't want to show.

Quote:
You have a peculiar idea about relationships, it seems. You realize that you might actually develop feelings for someone, so instantly you have to adapt to the other's level? What you seem to forget is that the revelation that Shizuku is feeling jealous is new to her - it happened at the end of ep7. Until then, it was mostly fun and games. And now, we'll have to see how she deals with it.

In my life experience, if you have to warp yourself too much to accomodate to the potential partner, things probably won't last. Naturally, there's always a certain degree as to how much you should adapt to make things easier for the other one, but there's a limit to it. We may see in ep8 how far Shizuku might be willing to go here. But I sure hope that she won't try to become a Kaede clone just because that might be popular with Natsuru. That wouldn't be "personal wisdom", it would rather be the opposite: It would be the wrong thing to do.
I never said that she had to change everything about herself, you're making some very extreme assumptions. I'll go so far to say that the things she does can be called harassment and an obvious abuse of her influence/the situation. Quite a bit of what she does is beneficial, but there are times where she has made the guy feel uncomfortable and downright humiliated, frankly on purpose, and without apology. There are ways to tone down this playful nature without making her a different person. YOU may like being used as a plaything but maybe he's not like that.

Quote:
Opportunistic?

Please elaborate. What exactly is opportunistic in what they've been doing, in particular Shizuku?
Haha, calm down tiger. I didn't mean it in a bad way, just that their both pretty sly when it comes to getting what they want. I don't think I would need to elaborate more than that.

But yeah, it'd be a good idea to chalk this up to preference.
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Last edited by Altima of the Gates; 2009-11-15 at 23:33.
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Old 2009-11-16, 03:22   Link #1293
longshot
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hmm quite an interesting revelation in episode 7 i feel like trying the pocky game now..well again anyway, that and we have another color to contend with

Due to the color of the kampfers now i think the moderators are :
American
French
British
Australian
Iceland
Netherlands
Russian
Korean(North or South i can't recall)
New Zealand
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Old 2009-11-16, 03:39   Link #1294
Full Metal Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot View Post
hmm quite an interesting revelation in episode 7 i feel like trying the pocky game now..well again anyway, that and we have another color to contend with

Due to the color of the kampfers now i think the moderators are :
American
French
British
Australian
Iceland
Netherlands
Russian
Korean(North or South i can't recall)
New Zealand
care to explain your moderator theory because its gone way over my head.
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Old 2009-11-16, 04:26   Link #1295
Willen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Metal Coast View Post
care to explain your moderator theory because its gone way over my head.
Colors. Red, White, Blue.

That's the common scheme for all the flags of those countries. (And both N. and S. Korea use the same colors in their flags.)
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Old 2009-11-16, 04:42   Link #1296
DRAGUN H.E.X.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willen View Post
Colors. Red, White, Blue.

That's the common scheme for all the flags of those countries. (And both N. and S. Korea use the same colors in their flags.)
maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff
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Old 2009-11-16, 16:23   Link #1297
KaneDragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff
Cue Akane yelling at Sakura for camping, while Natsuru yells at Akane for teamkilling.
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Old 2009-11-16, 16:56   Link #1298
Fawx9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
maybe its like Halo or something, e.g. with the Reds VS Blues & stuff
Great, now I want them to put in a reference to the RvB series.


Of course that wouldn't be a bad thing.

A female version of sarge would make this series so much more interesting.
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Old 2009-11-16, 18:33   Link #1299
Master_Yoma
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Natsuru is such an idiot braking the pocky and hiding he such a pussy
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Old 2009-11-16, 19:43   Link #1300
Wrath88
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Something my mind came up with (probably unrelated to anime though):
Imagine the 4 girls body-swapped:
Shizuku in Sakura's body
Akane in Shizuku's body
Mikoto in Akane's body
Sakura in Mikoto's body

Natsuru would probably go insane...

Back to the anime, I doubt the idea was for Red vs Blue, its just that those two are already opposing colors in a sense. (Wouldn't mind seeing the RvB humor in this though)
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