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Old 2009-11-23, 18:21   Link #1421
Mentar
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
... And Shizuku isn't pushy and in your face?

Shizuku pushed herself into Natsuru's face... literally.

She also basically told Natsuru that they'd be dating. Isn't that something you normally ask for?
I think the difference is that Shizuku isn't screechy-possessive at all. Where Kaede would rush in "NO YOU MUSTN'T, SHE'S MINE" style (like Akane, by the way), Shizuku is leaving the other girls way enough breathing space.

Remember the beauty pageant? Here, first Kaede had her chance for a kiss (interrupted by Akane), and then Akane herself (pushed Natsuru away). Shizuku even added at the end that she was quite excited by the scenes, yet she let the others be. She only intervened when she had to - when Akane was about to kill Kaede.

So, assertiveness is fine, when it's delivered the way Shizuku does.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:23   Link #1422
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
... And Shizuku isn't pushy and in your face?
Personally, i wouldn't say she is. She asked him out on a date, and he accepted. What's pushy or in your face about that?
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:29   Link #1423
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Personally, i wouldn't say she is. She asked him out on a date, and he accepted. What's pushy or in your face about that?
The only pushy part was the part where she insisted that it was a date.

That's ridiculous though, his whole mind's all about Kaede If that was the case though why doesn't he take advantage of it when he's a girl? Clearly Kaede swings that way instead. I'd take advantage of it, especially if my mind was that one track.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:35   Link #1424
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
The only pushy part was the part where she insisted that it was a date.
But... it was a date. He wasn't getting that, so she had to keep saying it. She wasn't being pushy, she was correcting an idiot.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:37   Link #1425
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I know, I wasn't critizing her or anything. I was merely pointing out that she had to be pushy on that part which is quite sad.

My question to him would've been "Has she given you any reason as to why it wouldn't be a date?"

I mean for crying out loud it's exatly as Shiroth mentioned. She could be raping/torturing him or violating him in many ways and he'd still think it was some sort of plot.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:37   Link #1426
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Personally, i wouldn't say she is. She asked him out on a date, and he accepted. What's pushy or in your face about that?
No, she didn't. She told him that they would be dating. She didn't ask him for a date.

Also, she didn't ask him what he'd think of relocating to the girls' side... she just forced him to.


Seriously, guys, it's fine to like the character and all, but let's not pretend that she's not pushy when she is.


Anyway, I don't have a problem with Shizuku's pushiness... but nor do I have a problem with Kaede's. I don't think that Kaede deserves the hate that she gets on this thread.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:42   Link #1427
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, she didn't. She told him that they would be dating. She didn't ask him for a date.

Seriously, guys, it's fine to like the character and all, but let's not pretend that she's not pushy when she is.


Anyway, I don't have a problem with Shizuku's pushiness... but nor do I have a problem with Kaede's. I don't think that Kaede deserves the hate that she gets on this thread.
In all fairness a woman like that would be the one with the pants in any relationship but unless the subs screwed up I though she said she was inviting him on a date. He just agreed because he thought that it was a ploy.

ANd I think the hate for Kaede is more on the the Kaede that's running in Natsuru's mind, not the real one.
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Old 2009-11-23, 18:42   Link #1428
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, she didn't. She told him that they would be dating. She didn't ask him for a date.

Also, she didn't ask him what he'd think of relocating to the girls' side... she just forced him to.


Seriously, guys, it's fine to like the character and all, but let's not pretend that she's not pushy when she is.
I think someone needs to rewatch episode 08.
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Old 2009-11-23, 19:59   Link #1429
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I really don't get the Sakura hate.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't think that Kaede deserves the hate that she gets on this thread.
i think it's the ranka lee factor... some people might just carry the hate on the VA for awhile...

just a guess! don't kill me!
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:00   Link #1430
puretsundere
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I really don't get the Sakura hate.
To me, I don't really hate Kaede. In fact, she's sort of grown on me as a likeable character. Unfortuately for her, she's only the fourth best girl on the show.

Don't know why, but I don't really like Mikoto as much as I thought I would. Usually I like exuberant, energetic girls in anime, but I'm not feeling the same from Mikoto. I just get annoyed by her, though I cannot exactly figure out why.

On a total, unrelated topic, non-Kämpfer non-megane Akane is pretty damn cute.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:08   Link #1431
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I think someone needs to rewatch episode 08.
I think someone is misreading it, or is using a different sub version than me...


Just re-watched the part before the opening credits.

Going by my gg subbed version, there's no point at which Natsuru says (before the opening credits roll) "Yes, I'll go on a date with you". In fact, he continually shows great discomfort at the idea, and Shizuku continues to insist on it anyway.

In fairness, Shizuku calls it an "invitation"... but it looks to me like it's an invitation that she's not letting Natsuru refuse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmkharuhiism View Post
To me, I don't really hate Kaede. In fact, she's sort of grown on me as a likeable character. Unfortuately for her, she's only the fourth best girl on the show.

Don't know why, but I don't really like Mikoto as much as I thought I would. Usually I like exuberant, energetic girls in anime, but I'm not feeling the same from Mikoto. I just get annoyed by her, though I cannot exactly figure out why.

On a total, unrelated topic, non-Kämpfer non-megane Akane is pretty damn cute.
I agree with you here completely.

Truthfully, my 5-girl listing would be the same as your most recent one.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:13   Link #1432
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Going by my gg subbed version, there's no point at which Natsuru says (before the opening credits roll) "Yes, I'll go on a date with you". In fact, he continually shows great discomfort at the idea, and Shizuku continues to insist on it anyway.

In fairness, Shizuku calls it an "invitation"... but it looks to me like it's an invitation that she's not letting Natsuru refuse.
But the fact is she never once pushes him into going out on the date, so you can't say she is being pushy.

Anyway, it's not like any of this matters. Let's just agree that it's Natsuru's fault for being a complete dense moron.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:22   Link #1433
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
See that's just your opinion on the matter. She never once pushes him into going out on the date, so you can't say she is being pushy.
Wrong.

I can say that she's being pushy.

I have just as much right to my opinion on the scene as you have to yours... don't I?

She came across as very pushy to me, and frankly I don't see why you don't think so. Natsuru does repeatedly show considerable discomfort over the idea of dating Shizuku... and Shizuku doesn't take the hint. She insists on the date anyway.

That's fine, but let's not act like it's a simple ask and quick yes response sort of deal.


Quote:

Anyway, it's not like any of this matters. Let's just agree that it's Natsuru's fault for being a complete dense moron.
What's Natsuru's fault?

Not wanting to go on a date with Shizuku?

Dude has his right to his own taste in women...
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:33   Link #1434
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
She came across as very pushy to me, and frankly I don't see why you don't think so. Natsuru does repeatedly show considerable discomfort over the idea of dating Shizuku... and Shizuku doesn't take the hint. She insists on the date anyway.
He was uncomfortable with it in the first place because he thought she was joking/kidding and there was a string attached to it.

When he deduced it had to be something about the white kampfer he went along with and nodded okay. She didn't had to push him. He came to the conclusion himself, how he did that I have no idea.

In fact he was uncomfortable the whole time because he thought that was the whole point and why Shizuku was treating it as an actual date. The only pushy part is re-asserting that it was a date.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:39   Link #1435
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
He was uncomfortable with it in the first place because he thought she was joking/kidding and there was a string attached to it.

When he deduced it had to be something about the white kampfer he went along with and nodded okay. She didn't had to push him. He came to the conclusion himself, how he did that I have no idea.

In fact he was uncomfortable the whole time because he thought that was the whole point and why Shizuku was treating it as an actual date.
I somewhat agree.

However, I think it's at least a bit pushy to continue to insist on a date after the guy indicates discomfort with the idea in the first place (and she did do that - she didn't just let it go after he showed initial discomfort with the idea).


Look... I'm starting to feel a little bit like Altima at the Gates did a few pages back. Like everything Shizuku does has to be put in a positive light... and that makes her character less interesting, imo.

I'm fine with how Mentar describes it - i.e. Shizuku's assertiveness/pushiness is more... refined than Sakura's... so it comes off better than Sakura's.

Ok, I can buy that... but it's still assertiveness/pushiness in my mind.


If you disagree, that's fine, but I have a right to my take on the scene.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:44   Link #1436
Fishfood1
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What's Natsuru's fault?

Not wanting to go on a date with Shizuku?

Dude has his right to his own taste in women...
no... i think he's referring to the fact that natsuru at the end still didn't think it was a date, and was instead thinking it's a trap to lure out the white kampfers.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:46   Link #1437
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no... i think he's referring to the fact that natsuru at the end still didn't think it was a date, and was instead thinking it's a trap to lure out the white kampfers.
Well that was very dense, yes. I don't think anybody disagrees with that, lol.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:46   Link #1438
puretsundere
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm fine with how Mentar describes it - i.e. Shizuku's assertiveness/pushiness is more... refined than Sakura's... so it comes off better than Sakura's.

Ok, I can buy that... but it's still assertiveness/pushiness in my mind.
While I agree that Shizuku shows a more refined assertiveness, I myself really don't find it being pushy. I don't really see her forcing Natsuru to do anything. I hesitate to use the word "manipulative" for Shizuku, but she can easily get Natsuru to do what she wants. Whether it's her being pushy or Natsuru being completely dense is up to the opinion to the viewer, I guess.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:49   Link #1439
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Originally Posted by bmkharuhiism View Post
While I agree that Shizuku shows a more refined assertiveness, I myself really don't find it being pushy. I don't really see her forcing Natsuru to do anything. I hesitate to use the word "manipulative" for Shizuku, but she can easily get Natsuru to do what she wants. Whether it's her being pushy or Natsuru being completely dense is up to the opinion to the viewer, I guess.
Well, she's as pushy as Kaede is. It's not like Kaede had to go so far as to drag Natsuru kicking and screaming on their date either, or had to drag him over to her house for the night either.

So, either Kaede and Shizuku are both pushy, or neither of them are.

Just my opinion.
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Old 2009-11-23, 20:54   Link #1440
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I hesitate to use the word "manipulative" for Shizuku, but she can easily get Natsuru to do what she wants.
only because of blackmailing and her position as president.

seriously, if everyone in the show knows female natsuru=male natsuru, imaging the humiliation he'd get, added on with death threats from all the female side. by the morning, an angry mob of 99% of the female students, lead by sakura would come to his front yard and lay siege to his house and burn it to ashes.

that's a huge blackmailing weapon she has to force natsuru to do what she wants, i'd say.

also because of her position, natsuru fears her, so obviously she can get natsuru to do anything.
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