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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 25 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 263 62.17%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 68 16.08%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 37 8.75%
7 out of 10 : Good 23 5.44%
6 out of 10 : Average 12 2.84%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 0.71%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.24%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.24%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.24%
1 out of 10 : Painful 14 3.31%
Voters: 423. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-03-26, 21:44   Link #281
SageGaiGar
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Key Difference for ZNT 2's is also the 'harem reset'. And with ZNT 3.

If you're going to compare kissing scenes then a much better start would be Itazura na kiss or even kare kano.
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Old 2009-03-26, 21:45   Link #282
t3htr0LL
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ZnT suffers from typical shonenitis,
Spoiler for spoils some more:


Ryuuji Taiga scene was great but it just reminded me of ZnT's best unadulterated love moment which says something about ZnT, which is not a good thing. The moment was sweet and enjoyable, the direction in the scene was good and the style was great, of course if you look at it in vaccum I still think those 10mins in ZnT beat this scene but with the dud that ZnT was and overall lack of development yes as an evolution of 25 great/good/ok episodes then yes this is one of the better culminating scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageGaiGar View Post
Key Difference for ZNT 2's is also the 'harem reset'. And with ZNT 3.

If you're going to compare kissing scenes then a much better start would be Itazura na kiss or even kare kano.
Again I'm talking about the 10mins before the epilogue, that scene is what I imagine as the culmination of all the feelings that Saito and Liouse fell. The scene is completely cheapened by the reset and of course ZnT 3, but in a vaccum that scene is pretty damn good, just watching that 10min clip you would understand exactly what the feelings Saito and Liouse have, and its genius is pretty damn hard to beat. Really whoever did the storyboarding for those scenes will be star, unfortunately none of the other series or the rest of season 2 had any of that intensity which is dissappointing.
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Old 2009-03-26, 21:52   Link #283
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Yeah if you leave out a lot of what happened previously in the series, and just forget about what happens after, and just forget about ZnT 3 too, the whole kiss and wedding scene was pretty nice I thought too.

But they should get an award for the most impressive self destruction after a nice scene. I mean, you don’t come across a drop of that magnitude all that often.
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Old 2009-03-26, 21:56   Link #284
t3htr0LL
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Thats my point as a director after you create that much build up... to ruin/waste it all the next seems just completely schizophrenic. It was like
Spoiler for spoiler':
Facepalm
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:16   Link #285
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I get the comparison, but let's not let this topic derail too much. That other show generates enough drama on its own without needing this thread to help it out.
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:23   Link #286
t3htr0LL
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I get the comparison, but let's not let this topic derail too much. That other show generates enough drama on its own without needing this thread to help it out.
well i was just comparing two very similar moments, done by the same studio. Which gave me the used footage impression though in its own write toradora was very plesent, and the romance didn't come off cliche. I just wanted to point out that though JC is suspect at times the rabu rabu stuff, can be done very well, not just in toradora.
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:32   Link #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3htr0LL View Post
Ryuuji Taiga scene was great but it just reminded me of ZnT's best unadulterated love moment which says something about ZnT, which is not a good thing. The moment was sweet and enjoyable, the direction in the scene was good and the style was great, of course if you look at it in vaccum I still think those 10mins in ZnT beat this scene but with the dud that ZnT was and overall lack of development yes as an evolution of 25 great/good/ok episodes then yes this is one of the better culminating scenes.
I see what you are saying, but I'd disagree. I don't like the vacuum. More so then the kissing scene between Ryuuji and Taiga I liked their interaction the next day. It was adult and sweet, holding hands and talking. The love rivals were gone, the misunderstandings were gone, there was nothing awkward about it. That made the whole thing seem more real and developed. When they kissed, they both meant it. Even after a separation they still felt the same about each other. Maybe I'm getting too old to be impressed by fleeting moments of passion and emotion. I want to see a strong and steady relationship.
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:43   Link #288
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I'll commend t3htr0LL for explaining why he thought the way he did (even if it did derail us a bit). I think I'm going to watch this ep again.
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:53   Link #289
t3htr0LL
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Originally Posted by Teletha View Post
I see what you are saying, but I'd disagree. I don't like the vacuum. More so then the kissing scene between Ryuuji and Taiga I liked their interaction the next day. It was adult and sweet, holding hands and talking. The love rivals were gone, the misunderstandings were gone, there was nothing awkward about it. That made the whole thing seem more real and developed. When they kissed, they both meant it. Even after a separation they still felt the same about each other. Maybe I'm getting too old to be impressed by fleeting moments of passion and emotion. I want to see a strong and steady relationship.
well the reaction after saitoxliouse super moment was great too
Spoiler for god this sucks but it has to be done:
anyway yes their relationship is mature and great to watch, but man wish they downplayed the dramatic reunions, that felt a borderline cheestastic but with the explanation and all maintains its validity. I think I just find it as more of a directing fault then say the story per se.
heres a reuninion sample of what I think would have worked as in a sense less dramatic
Spoiler for Fan Fic, still dramatic but in a sense less cheesy the running down the school hall and then find your gf/faince in a closet...:
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Old 2009-03-26, 22:56   Link #290
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Can't say I'm on the same page as you on the ZnT anime but yeah, shows where life and death are at play rather than just feelings can have a stronger emotional impact with you aren't into this sort of thing. These smaller scale slice of life stories aren't for everyone.
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Old 2009-03-26, 23:24   Link #291
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Probably one of the best romances I've watched/read lately.

Ryuuji was lonely for a whole year
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Old 2009-03-26, 23:57   Link #292
Reckoner
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Strange, this episode received such great appraisal, but I am completely underwhelmed by this ending. Never has there been so much happening, where I end up feeling like nothing happened. I could not connect with any of the characters in these last two episodes, whereas before I could get an emotional connection. I am very disappointed.

Where to start on my list of what I felt was poor?

One thing is definitely certain, the pacing was completely off these last two episodes. The way the characters have been changing in these last two episodes completely shuns most of the rest of the series. Originally, I felt the series was doing a good job in gradually opening up and developing its characters, but the rapid changes in their psychology in these last two episodes makes everything seem useless. No, I am not talking about Ryuji and Taiga finally recognizing their love for each other.

And after all of this, Ryuji's issue of college vs. work was never resolved. Can anyone correct me or did I completely miss the resolution to this? Saying that he is going to become an adult in front of his mother does not cut it. He also felt completely worthless just an episode ago, wishing that he had not been born. What? When a person feels something like that, the issue does not just go away within a couple of days. Ok, I could believe that Taiga could have healed him, like Ryuji healed Taiga. Here is the problem though, Taiga took over 20 episodes to come to grips with herself. I doubt Ryuji could recover so fast. He did not even make mention of this thought to anyone, including the audience, until he talked to Taiga.

Ryuji's mother is one of the worst characters in this series. She somehow went from this space-cadet mother to an emotional package in an episode and a half. They seriously needed to have added development for her before she stormed out of her place. Ryuji has daddy issues, and his mother obviously did not bear a good enough relationship with him, yet they never make much mention of this beforehand.

One of Toradora's themes, family, was never truly expanded. Ryuji's grandparents never got a proper introduction. Taiga's mother never really got shown, and we got a very mild taste of her father. Perhaps many would feel that the series could make its point without them, but I would not agree. Both of the main character's woes are largely related to family; Taiga feels alone and Ryuji has a conflict of interest with his mother. I would have very much liked more insight into these respective issues.

Minor issue, but I would have liked a little bit more closure on Minorin and Ami. No mention of where their lives are planning to head. Minorin I can only guess that she will go fulfill her softball dreams.

Actually this brings up a much bigger issue for me. Ami was not dealt justice in this show. What are her aspirations? Perhaps my memory is foggy, but does she actually still enjoy her modeling job? Is that what she wants to do for the rest of her life? She talks about it being helpful that there is at least one person out there who understands her, but that person is not going to be there for her anymore. They just graduated! No fear of being isolated again? Eh, I think her character got shafted.

Time skips... Gah... How many freaking times does this happen? I find it ludicrous to think that Ryuji and Taiga would honestly have not met even once in the whole year that passed them by. Ok, it is nice to think that both of them waited for each other all this time, but no matter how anyone tries to sugar coat this plot device, it still sucks. It is pointless.

This genre of anime seriously needs clean up duty with its endings. Too often do they suffer from endings that leave unresolved issues, or unexplained events. I could go on with more ranting, but this is already a big enough wall of text. This episode earns a 6/10 for me, as this ending truly was simply average at best.
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:01   Link #293
fish eric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3htr0LL View Post
well the reaction after saitoxliouse super moment was great too
Spoiler for god this sucks but it has to be done:
anyway yes their relationship is mature and great to watch, but man wish they downplayed the dramatic reunions, that felt a borderline cheestastic but with the explanation and all maintains its validity. I think I just find it as more of a directing fault then say the story per se.
heres a reuninion sample of what I think would have worked as in a sense less dramatic
Spoiler for Fan Fic, still dramatic but in a sense less cheesy the running down the school hall and then find your gf/faince in a closet...:


where did you get that fanfic from? that is pretty good writing. i wish the toradora novels were translated into such well written prose.
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:07   Link #294
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Strange, ... This episode earns a 6/10 for me, as this ending truly was simply average at best.
The interesting thing is that each of those complaints have a legitimate basis because (imo) they exactly target the series' biggest problem -- the lack of time budget to execute each of those omissions or deficiencies (which are basically all covered in the novels).

Yet given the time budget constraint.... I just feel they worked pretty hard with only a few fail-points. I really would like to see this remade in a few years with a 36 episode budget.... probably won't happen though I'm still amazed we got Kanon redone.
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:14   Link #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The interesting thing is that each of those complaints have a legitimate basis because (imo) they exactly target the series' biggest problem -- the lack of time budget to execute each of those omissions or deficiencies (which are basically all covered in the novels).

Yet given the time budget constraint.... I just feel they worked pretty hard with only a few fail-points. I really would like to see this remade in a few years with a 36 episode budget.... probably won't happen though I'm still amazed we got Kanon redone.
That would be amazing if we got a remake, but at the same time, i almost don't want a remake, ya know? (you just reminded me to watch kanon 06. I have had it FOREVER and it's been sitting there unwatched on my drive)
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:24   Link #296
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im not hoping for a second season, and it would kill the show if it does, but ovas are fine
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:29   Link #297
physics223
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I'm absolutely rooting for some sort of Toradora ~Next Season~, but this time with Ami. I just can't help but love Ami, and I thought her final scene with Ryuuji was even better than the kiss itself (which was great).
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Old 2009-03-27, 00:54   Link #298
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For the time that they were given to adapt the novel into the anime, I think it was exceptionally well done, though I would also agree that there were a few minor flaws. I don't see those flaws to be big enough to hinder the story though, since ultimately the core message they intended to relay through the series had been successfully projected with the ending.

I don't think they should add a second season either, or even a remake to be honest. The story ended great enough as is and should be left alone. Any extensions to it would potentially tarnish it.
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Old 2009-03-27, 01:12   Link #299
fish eric
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That would be amazing if we got a remake, but at the same time, i almost don't want a remake, ya know? (you just reminded me to watch kanon 06. I have had it FOREVER and it's been sitting there unwatched on my drive)
when you watch kanon 06 and see how much better it is you might change your mind.

if they can make toradora2 to be as much better than the original as was kanon2 to the original than we would have the greatest anime ever made.


did that make sense?
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Old 2009-03-27, 01:46   Link #300
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Best executed Kiss Scene ever!!! Now I'm wondering if they bumped uglies that night or not.

Once again Ami is full of bitter sweet melancholy. Her moving on with the feeling of being accepted as she is by that "one" person, even if he didn't love her was enough to make her feel better. Ah, my poor sweet Ami-chan.
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