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View Poll Results: Clannad series - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 279 64.88%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 96 22.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 31 7.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 2.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 0.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 0.47%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.47%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.23%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.23%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 1.16%
Voters: 430. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-18, 12:53   Link #121
RemSuzu
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This is my favorite anime. It made me laugh and cry. I was surprised I didn't cry much at all when Nagisa died, but I was destroyed when Ushio died and also when they go on the trip, the field scene.

It was beautiful, with a very nice ending. Shoujo No Gensou is also one of my favorite songs now.

I didn't like the Tomoyo chapter much, but I loved the Kyou one. I was a bit upset that they put kissing in that one, when we never saw Nagisa or Tomoya kiss. >_>

Plus also I am quite the Dango fanatic. I even memorized most of the song. @_@
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Old 2009-07-18, 18:01   Link #122
FugibayashiFlower<3
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Originally Posted by RemSuzu View Post
This is my favorite anime. It made me laugh and cry. I was surprised I didn't cry much at all when Nagisa died, but I was destroyed when Ushio died and also when they go on the trip, the field scene.

It was beautiful, with a very nice ending. Shoujo No Gensou is also one of my favorite songs now.

I didn't like the Tomoyo chapter much, but I loved the Kyou one. I was a bit upset that they put kissing in that one, when we never saw Nagisa or Tomoya kiss. >_>

Plus also I am quite the Dango fanatic. I even memorized most of the song. @_@
your just read my mind about everything i feel about this anime.
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Old 2009-07-18, 20:48   Link #123
DeX-kun
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It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I wanted to use Bleach to illustrate my point. If you watched Bleach then you'd understand. All plots are set in stone. That's doesn't prevent Deus Ex machina's from occuring does it? Think of any piece of literature, whatever it may be, that ended in a total blatant Deus Ex Machina but would've been worse if the Deus Ex Machina hadn't occured. That doesn't mean the what actually happenned isn't bad.

Saying it is what is because it's based on a game is not an excuse. It's an explanation.
No, not all plots are set in stone for some anime, especially Bleach. Bleach is based off it's manga in which I believe hasn't ended yet while Clannad is based off the visual novel where the ending was completed a long time ago. We're only talking about the ending. The difference here is that the miracles weren't sudden, it's not like Clannad was realistic until the end. I wouldn't necessarily call this a "Deus Ex Machina" when there were miracles constantly happening. Fuko's presence at school was a miracle in it's own right, no? And that was in season 1.

If you want an excuse then I can't give you one, go ask Key and KyoAni. I'm giving you an explanation because that's all I have to offer and because primarily you asked for one. I didn't create this anime so I'm giving you my interpretation of it. There is no right and wrong here considering it's subjective. You figure it's bad and I say it's good. If you want an excuse as to why the ending was made so perfect, then go ask the creators because all I can give you is my interpretation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Not just me. A lot of people. But anyway, I never said it had to be as real as it gets, otherwise I've would've complained about the illusionary world all together. The fact is that the family theme counts towards the Slice of Life. The family theme is partly what makes it a slice of life. And Slice of Life's themes are supposed to be realistic. If it contains fantasy elements then it should be made that it doesn't invalidate the slice of life's theme. The slice of life's theme should remain true and applicable to the real world even when fantasy is brought in. But that wasn't the case with the ending. I explained it a little better in the other thread.
Really? You and other people thought that this anime's purpose was to be realistic? I'm sorry but you and whoever else thinks that are highly mistaken. This paragraph is the reason I'm /facepalming, because it's frustrating trying to explain this to you. You've completely contradicted yourself and you're grasping at straws. Clannad is Slice of Life because it contains your everyday family life. Clannad is Fantasy because of the miracles, IW and such. There is no way that Fantasy coincides with real life, no matter how you look at it, Fantasy is fiction and it cannot "enhance" (as you said in a earlier post) Slice of Life for the very reason that they contradict each other. All of these genres are separate from one another because Clannad is made up of different pieces where it's respective genre applies. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Okay let me try and explain something. I LOVE Clannad After Story. Even despite the ending it reached my top ten (see profile) it could possibly be my most favourite. I'm still watching clips of Clannad on yotube over and over again. Now I didn't like the ending, but I've heard a lot of people say that those that didn't like the ending didn't understand it. Now think about. If you found out that a flaw in one your most favourite shows wasn't actually a flaw but was actually some sor tof fridge brilliance you'd be pretty pissed that you missed it, right? And you'd want to find out, right? So if what you're saying is true and that there were alternatives then that means there wasn't anything that I misunderstood, right? Dgreater1 actually got it.
What you misunderstood was the whole thing about Slice of Life and Fantasy. I already partially stated what Dgreater1 said in my post prior to this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
KyoAni isn't known for creating realistic animes. Their purpose wasn't to create the most realistic anime, only you seem to think that.
Although I forgot to mention Key here, Dgreater1 just further explicated this point.
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Old 2009-07-19, 05:13   Link #124
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.
That wasn't me btw. And I'll prove it

Quote:
No, not all plots are set in stone for some anime, especially Bleach. Bleach is based off it's manga in which I believe hasn't ended yet while Clannad is based off the visual novel where the ending was completed a long time ago. We're only talking about the ending. The difference here is that the miracles weren't sudden, it's not like Clannad was realistic until the end. I wouldn't necessarily call this a "Deus Ex Machina" when there were miracles constantly happening. Fuko's presence at school was a miracle in it's own right, no? And that was in season 1.

If you want an excuse then I can't give you one, go ask Key and KyoAni. I'm giving you an explanation because that's all I have to offer and because primarily you asked for one. I didn't create this anime so I'm giving you my interpretation of it. There is no right and wrong here considering it's subjective. You figure it's bad and I say it's good. If you want an excuse as to why the ending was made so perfect, then go ask the creators because all I can give you is my interpretation.
The same logic applies to Bleach even if it hasn't ended yet. If it's based on a visual novel then why is the visual novel exempt from criticism? I'm complaining about the plot wherevere it came from. And I don't where interpretation comes into this. You're defending the plot by saying it came from a visual novel. That's not interpretation. And I didn't mean to call it a Deux Ex machina.

I did ask for an excuse, not an explanation. An explanation can explain why something bad happened but can't excuse it.

Quote:
Really? You and other people thought that this anime's purpose was to be realistic? I'm sorry but you and whoever else thinks that are highly mistaken. This paragraph is the reason I'm /facepalming, because it's frustrating trying to explain this to you. You've completely contradicted yourself and you're grasping at straws. Clannad is Slice of Life because it contains your everyday family life. Clannad is Fantasy because of the miracles, IW and such. There is no way that Fantasy coincides with real life, no matter how you look at it, Fantasy is fiction and it cannot "enhance" (as you said in a earlier post) Slice of Life for the very reason that they contradict each other. All of these genres are separate from one another because Clannad is made up of different pieces where it's respective genre applies. I don't know how else to explain this to you.
A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic

I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic. The only reason the theme wasn’t realistic is because of the fantasy elements brought in, so you explaining to me why fantasy elements contradict slice of life elements only proves my point. The only thing that saves you here is you arguing that these elements were separated the whole time.

How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.

The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.

Quote:
What you misunderstood was the whole thing about Slice of Life and Fantasy. I already partially stated what Dgreater1 said in my post prior to this one:
Although I forgot to mention Key here, Dgreater1 just further explicated this point.
No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win.
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Old 2009-07-19, 06:38   Link #125
Khu
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You guys are all really pumped up lol. I just found the fantasy elements to help ease the emotion juuuust in case dudes started to jump off cliffs or something.

Or maybe it contributed to the emotion so much that the jump off cliff option was replaced with OMG? I dunno. XD
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Old 2009-07-19, 19:59   Link #126
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
That wasn't me btw. And I'll prove it
To be honest, I really don't care who it was because it's not going to change anything. It was a general statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The same logic applies to Bleach even if it hasn't ended yet. If it's based on a visual novel then why is the visual novel exempt from criticism? I'm complaining about the plot wherevere it came from. And I don't where interpretation comes into this. You're defending the plot by saying it came from a visual novel. That's not interpretation. And I didn't mean to call it a Deux Ex machina.

I did ask for an excuse, not an explanation. An explanation can explain why something bad happened but can't excuse it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I'm sure I understand it but I find that in a lot of arguments between people it's always because of some misunderstanding, so just for for clarifications I'd like you to explain the whole purpose of the illusionary world and how it ties in with the theme of the show.
This was asking for an explanation no?

Besides that, I don't understand how you want me to "excuse" the plot for giving you an ending that doesn't fit your preferences. I'm giving you my interpretation of the IW and of the ending. If you don't like it, then I can't do anything about that. Like I said before, if you want an excuse then go ask Key and KyoAni.

You didn't mean to call it a "Deus Ex Machina?" You've contradicted yourself again unless there is another plot device that you were referring to that applies to the ending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic

I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic. The only reason the theme wasn’t realistic is because of the fantasy elements brought in, so you explaining to me why fantasy elements contradict slice of life elements only proves my point. The only thing that saves you here is you arguing that these elements were separated the whole time.

How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.

The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.
You've completely misconstrued everything I've stated so far and you're still grasping at straws. Who's talking about specific elements? I'm referring to the respective genres within Clannad. Tomoya living with Nagisa and going to work everyday is Slice of Life. While showing us the IW is Fantasy, right? I'm strictly speaking of genres. Try to read my post in it's entirety before jumping the gun.

Also, I never said that "the miracle occurred to achieve the family theme", if so, tell me where. What I did say is that the point of the miracle itself was for the development of Tomoya's character, self-realization. The moment Tomoya realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa, you got your character development. Tomoya was regretting meeting Nagisa ever since he found out about the danger of delivering Ushio. And I said that here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life.
From my interpretation, the family theme was achieved through showing us the suffering that Tomoya was put through and the sacrifices his father made to make Tomoya into a better man. Demonstrating how cold Tomoya was towards Ushio and how he seemingly resented her is how the family theme was achieved.


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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win.
That's just childish. This is what you call trolling.
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Old 2009-07-19, 20:25   Link #127
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic
According to common dictionary, slice of life in the 20th (and beyond) century now has the definition as follows:

representation of events and situations in everyday life in literature, film, journalism

Which does not indicate that it must be realistic, but merely a presentation of every day life in works of fiction. Therefore, a slice of life work is fully capable of incorporating fantasy elements. At the end of the day, Clannad is just fiction, not prime news on CNN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I’m not saying Clannad has to be realistic. I’m saying the Slice of life theme is supposed to be realistic.
That is your opinion. Your opinion does not reflect the commonly accepted definition. Therefore, your opinion is now forfeited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
How can you possibly argue that the fantasy elements and separate from the slice of life elements and at the same time say that the miracle (fantasy element) occurred to achieve the family theme (Slice of life element). The only reason I’m complaining is because they weren’t separate. The fantasy elements (the miracle) contradicted the Slice of Life elements (family theme). This is what I’ve been complaining about.
Merry go around sure is fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The fact is that the fantasy does not have to contradict the slice of life theme. Look at Spirited Away. Are all the realistic messages conveyed in anyway contradicted by the fantasy elements? On the contrary the fantasy elements were there to illustrate those realistic themes. Now Spirited Away isn’t a slice of life but the same logic applies. Why did you think I gave you that alternate ending to Clannad? It’s a clear illustration that they do not have to contradict each other.
Thank you for proving that the ending is fully plausible.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
No it wasn’t about that. I was just saying that either way I win.


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Old 2009-07-20, 12:17   Link #128
Haak
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
This was asking for an explanation no?
It wasn't. That was a completely different point in a completely different context.

Quote:
Besides that, I don't understand how you want me to "excuse" the plot for giving you an ending that doesn't fit your preferences. I'm giving you my interpretation of the IW and of the ending. If you don't like it, then I can't do anything about that. Like I said before, if you want an excuse then go ask Key and KyoAni.
You've sort of mixed this up with some other point. If I recall the original point I was addressing was you saying that without the miracle coccuring then we would've got an even worse neding and I would've still complained.

Quote:
You didn't mean to call it a "Deus Ex Machina?" You've contradicted yourself again unless there is another plot device that you were referring to that applies to the ending.
Not really because I never did call it a Deus Ex Machina. I asked you to think of an example of a piece of literature that ended with a Deus Ex Machina but would have been even worse if the Deus Ex Machina hadn't occured. I never said the miracle was a Deus Ex Machina. I said it was a plot device yes, but i never said it was a Deus Ex Machina.

Quote:
You've completely misconstrued everything I've stated so far and you're still grasping at straws. Who's talking about specific elements? I'm referring to the respective genres within Clannad. Tomoya living with Nagisa and going to work everyday is Slice of Life. While showing us the IW is Fantasy, right? I'm strictly speaking of genres. Try to read my post in it's entirety before jumping the gun.
I'm talking about speciifc elements. And my point still stands either way.

Quote:
Also, I never said that "the miracle occurred to achieve the family theme", if so, tell me where. What I did say is that the point of the miracle itself was for the development of Tomoya's character, self-realization. The moment Tomoya realized that he didn't regret meeting Nagisa, you got your character development. Tomoya was regretting meeting Nagisa ever since he found out about the danger of delivering Ushio. And I said that here:
And I did point out that there were alternatives that would've achieved the same thing. Also all of Tomoya's self realiztation was about family. Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
The IW ties in with the theme simply by existing. Without the IW, we wouldn't have gotten the existence of alternate universes and the importance of family.
That's very clearly telling me how they are not so seperate.

Quote:
From my interpretation, the family theme was achieved through showing us the suffering that Tomoya was put through and the sacrifices his father made to make Tomoya into a better man. Demonstrating how cold Tomoya was towards Ushio and how he seemingly resented her is how the family theme was achieved.
So let me get this straight. You're saying that by your interpretation the family theme is achieved through the miracle but by your interpretation the family theme is completely separate from the miracle (Look if you believe that the family theme is what makes the slice of life genre and the miracle is a part of the fantasy genre and that these genre's are both seperate then it logically follows,) Try putting it on a Venn Diagram and you'll see what I mean.

Quote:
That's just childish. This is what you call trolling.
It's TRUE! If I'm wrong and there was a good reason for the miracle to occur then I can appreciate one of my most favourite anime even more. If I'm right, well then, I just have the pleasure of knowing that I'm right. It's not like a lost anything.

Oh and Tak: I said Slice of Life elements must be as realistic as possible. I never said a Slice of life anime couldn't have fantasy elemtns. I swaer I've said that like a hundred times now.
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Old 2009-07-20, 13:17   Link #129
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
You've sort of mixed this up with some other point. If I recall the original point I was addressing was you saying that without the miracle coccuring then we would've got an even worse neding and I would've still complained.
I didn't say that you would complain, I said that we would have gotten someone like you except they would be complaining about the opposite of what your gripe is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I'm talking about speciifc elements. And my point still stands either way.

And I did point out that there were alternatives that would've achieved the same thing. Also all of Tomoya's self realiztation was about family. Also:

That's very clearly telling me how they are not so seperate.
You're still misconstruing my post. It's nice that you're talking about specific elements but I never was. I'm speaking of genres while you're mixing it with themes and elements within the plot. I also never disagreed with your point, I'm clearing up what you've been misunderstanding.

In the beginning you stated this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
So you're telling me that Slice of Life anime is not meant to be realistic?
Everything I've stated concerning this topic was about genres, not elements but you came with your straw man argument and misconstrued what I've been saying from the beginning. This is exactly why I wanted to drop this part of the discussion but you keep insisting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
So let me get this straight. You're saying that by your interpretation the family theme is achieved through the miracle but by your interpretation the family theme is completely separate from the miracle (Look if you believe that the family theme is what makes the slice of life genre and the miracle is a part of the fantasy genre and that these genre's are both seperate then it logically follows,) Try putting it on a Venn Diagram and you'll see what I mean.
Again, you're confusing my words. I said the elements in the plot are what make their respective genre's. And yes, I have been stating that the genre's are seperate, hence the anime being labeled as Slice of Life and Fantasy. Now if you want to talk about specific elements and themes then they are able to coincide.

What you quoted is my response where I was being more specific and speaking of those elements, I was not referring to the genre's. Now do you mind dropping this part of the discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It's TRUE! If I'm wrong and there was a good reason for the miracle to occur then I can appreciate one of my most favourite anime even more. If I'm right, well then, I just have the pleasure of knowing that I'm right. It's not like a lost anything.
I was unaware that we were playing a game here. You're failing to comprehend what I've been trying to explain here and looking for ways to argue something that I never stated.

What exactly is it that you want to be right about? That there was no need for the miracle? Please clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Oh and Tak: I said Slice of Life elements must be as realistic as possible. I never said a Slice of life anime couldn't have fantasy elemtns. I swaer I've said that like a hundred times now.
Hence this redundant argument.
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Old 2009-07-20, 20:40   Link #130
Khu
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I am so glad people are still talking in legible sentences ><
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Old 2009-07-20, 22:15   Link #131
DeX-kun
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Originally Posted by Khu View Post
I am so glad people are still talking in legible sentences ><
Well hopefully I'm making things as clear as I possibly can.
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Old 2009-07-21, 12:18   Link #132
Haak
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Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
I didn't say that you would complain, I said that we would have gotten someone like you except they would be complaining about the opposite of what your gripe is.
My point still stands anyway.

Quote:
You're still misconstruing my post. It's nice that you're talking about specific elements but I never was. I'm speaking of genres while you're mixing it with themes and elements within the plot. I also never disagreed with your point, I'm clearing up what you've been misunderstanding.

In the beginning you stated this:

Everything I've stated concerning this topic was about genres, not elements but you came with your straw man argument and misconstrued what I've been saying from the beginning. This is exactly why I wanted to drop this part of the discussion but you keep insisting.
Okay first of all that wasn’t the beginning. THIS was the beginning:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?
This was me talking about specific elements which I always was. YOU were also talking about specific elements right from start:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
Ok, this is a premeditated plot and the fantasy elements are there because this series is based off the visual novel. The genre doesn't necessarily have to include character development, it's more of plot development, that's why I said that it enhances the plot. Again, this isn't that significant for me to discuss and I'd rather drop this all together.

Yes, the development did occur before the miracle but what development do we have if all that was left was a dead family. The point of episode 22 was self-realization for Tomoya. The miracle occurred because he had the choice to either never meet Nagisa where nothing ever happened or do it all over again no matter the circumstances. If Tomoya had never met Nagisa, then he would have never forgiven his father and he would have went on to live his life as a delinquent resentful of his life. The character development that we had was shown at the end of episode 22 where Tomoya and his family go to visit his father where his grandmother lives. Without the miracle, there would be no one alive.
What you quoted was me bringing in genre’s so I could prove that the family theme was meant to be realistic. I would later go on to elaborate on it further:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
T
A Slice life is meant to be realistic.
The family theme of Clannad is a Slice of Life aspect
Therefore the Family theme of Clannad if meant to be realistic
I told you that I wasn’t complaining about the whole genre. That I was complaining about the miracle. So why on earth would you be talking about genre's in general to prove me wrong?

It doesn’t matter if you were talking about genre’s the whole time, anyway. Your point was that the two genre’s were separate wasn’t it? And I demonstrated that that wasn’t the case by bringing in the specific elements to prove that. That’s not making straw men. The conclusion of my argument is still about the genre’s. Here let me show you:
1) It is said that the two Clannad genre’s (Slice of Life and Fantasy) are separate
2) The Slice of Life genre includes the family theme.
3) The Fantasy genre includes the miracle element.
4) The family theme and the miracle element are connected
5) Therefore the two genre’s are not separate.
Even if you are right and I was bringing in specific elements I was still on the same page.

Quote:
Again, you're confusing my words. I said the elements in the plot are what make their respective genre's. And yes, I have been stating that the genre's are seperate, hence the anime being labeled as Slice of Life and Fantasy. Now if you want to talk about specific elements and themes then they are able to coincide
What you quoted is my response where I was being more specific and speaking of those elements, I was not referring to the genre's. Now do you mind dropping this part of the discussion?
.
Which means that the genre’s are not separate as I’ve pointed out. Like I said: Draw a Venn Diagram.


Quote:
I was unaware that we were playing a game here. You're failing to comprehend what I've been trying to explain here and looking for ways to argue something that I never stated.

What exactly is it that you want to be right about? That there was no need for the miracle? Please clarify.
I’m not arguing anything here. I was just stating WHY I was arguing. Again, this was my original point:

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So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?
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Hence this redundant argument.
What do you mean?
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Old 2009-07-21, 13:00   Link #133
DeX-kun
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Okay first of all that wasn’t the beginning. THIS was the beginning:

This was me talking about specific elements which I always was. YOU were also talking about specific elements right from start:

What you quoted was me bringing in genre’s so I could prove that the family theme was meant to be realistic. I would later go on to elaborate on it further:

I told you that I wasn’t complaining about the whole genre. That I was complaining about the miracle. So why on earth would you be talking about genre's in general to prove me wrong?
Again, that's not the point. I never responded to that quote, I began a discussion with you on your response after that one. Also when I began talking about specific elements I had thought that the genre talk was dropped because I've been making general statements about solely genre's. Hence your quote.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just pointing out that you've misunderstood me from the beginning. You're implying that I was being specific about genre's when I wasn't, I was merely referring to them as descriptions. I got more specific when you began speaking of character development and such so I figured the whole genre talk was discarded.

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I’m not arguing anything here. I was just stating WHY I was arguing. Again, this was my original point:

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
So what was the purpose of the the show? If the purpose of the show is defeated by realism then that's kind of a weak purpose isn't it?
If that's your point then I disagree here. The show's purpose was not defeated by realism. The show's purpose was largely family and hope, correct? Well the miracle gave Tomoya the opportunity to turn away from Nagisa and hope that she never suffers again or talk to her and take the risk of facing adversity again. Tomoya chose the latter so this is where your fantasy element (now I'm being specific and I hope we're on the same page) helps provide your character development. Without the miracle, Tomoya still regrets ever meeting Nagisa. Hence why he cries every time he thinks of her.
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Old 2009-07-23, 17:13   Link #134
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It seems that someone negative repped me because they didn't like the "facepalms." Well I find the reason to be immature but hey, I don't go negative repping people without a good reason.
Eh, people give negative rep for all sorta of random reasons even for the most innocuous posts. Basically expressing any kind of opinion will do that; I even got one for praising this series lol. Honestly, I've made much more controversial/crappy posts than that. I'm sorta disappointed I have to look hard for these secret insults instead of having someone flame me directly. So I wouldn't take it too seriously.
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Old 2009-07-23, 17:34   Link #135
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Eh, people give negative rep for all sorta of random reasons even for the most innocuous posts. Basically expressing any kind of opinion will do that; I even got one for praising this series lol. Honestly, I've made much more controversial/crappy posts than that. I'm sorta disappointed I have to look hard for these secret insults instead of having someone flame me directly. So I wouldn't take it too seriously.
Meh, I was making a general statement to whoever did it. Either way, this series has been planned out very well and I enjoyed every minute of it. One thing I do have to say about this series is the choice of playing "Torch" for every ending All the episodes with those heart-breaking endings could have used a more depressing song to keep that emotion running but "Torch" just doesn't cut it for me -_-
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Old 2009-07-23, 17:46   Link #136
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Meh, I was making a general statement to whoever did it.
Yea I know. Mine was a general statement too- that occasionally the rep system can be used by random people to troll and they probaly do it because they can. Kinda like random 1s in every poll around this site and on the internet (especially IMDB). Not that 1 is not a legit option, but yea.

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Either way, this series has been planned out very well and I enjoyed every minute of it. One thing I do have to say about this series is the choice of playing "Torch" for everyone ending All the episodes with those heart-breaking endings could have used a more depressing song to keep that emotion running but "Torch" just doesn't cut it for me -_-
Yea Torch is probaly one of the ed songs I could care less about. It probaly would have been better just to have no ED for those episodes and just play the credits over the last scenes.

Not having Torch actually made me rate the Kyou OVA a bit higher. Otherwise I'd just rant for a while.
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Old 2009-07-23, 22:36   Link #137
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Yea Torch is probaly one of the ed songs I could care less about. It probaly would have been better just to have no ED for those episodes and just play the credits over the last scenes.

Not having Torch actually made me rate the Kyou OVA a bit higher. Otherwise I'd just rant for a while.
That's what I questioned as well. I mean they could have just left what ever song that was playing the particular depressing scene and just roll some credits. I mean it was just a mood killer Bah, the song itself isn't so bad but the way it was used was horrible. It actually made me dislike the song slightly.
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Old 2009-07-23, 23:53   Link #138
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Shoulda used another variant of Nagisa lol.
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Old 2009-07-23, 23:59   Link #139
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Shoulda used another variant of Nagisa lol.
Even that would have been a good idea. That's probably the only thing that I hold against this series. They did so well at placing music in certain scenes, yet they couldn't do it for emotional endings in certain episodes -_-
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Old 2009-07-24, 00:02   Link #140
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Maybe they wanted it that way, so as to kind of jerk the audience back to reality?
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