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Old 2009-04-07, 18:51   Link #241
DarkHollowIchigo
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
So you all want the fingernail girl? Well here ya go.

Spoiler for spoilers:
-__________-; ew
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Old 2009-04-07, 19:15   Link #242
Luminion Lancer
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
So you all want the fingernail girl? Well here ya go.

Spoiler for spoilers:
-Lady Deathstrike, is that you? Man, the tides of time have not been kind...
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Old 2009-04-07, 21:20   Link #243
ShadowAssasin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
Maybe you can learn how to become a better visionary from it. Since your imagination needs some fine tuning.
I can appreciate the reasoning behind James’ gripe with certain scenes though. In my opinion, I believe Hinata’s confession was written well. However, for me, it’s the supporting back story of her and Naruto’s relationship together that may have made it seem lacking. In other words, if Naruto and Hinata shared more with each other throughout the story than a few words, Hinata’s confession would’ve been that more potent.

However, since “romance” isn’t exactly my primary reason for reading the manga , I really don’t mind the wasted potential of her scene – especially since this is in regards to romance between 15-16 year olds. The scene was still satisfactory to me, and it was enough to make me wonder whether or not she will survive; among other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
I don't think learning how to fly, or shooting lazers from his eyes is neither far-fetched or crazy in the Kishimotoverse.
I really believe those were just arbitrary examples. While the story may be fiction, the characters are bound to rules defined in that story’s universe; so it isn’t at all unreasonable to make a statement as James has made, or to call an event in that story “far fetched”, as long as the statement is based on that universe’s implied rules. And, although the parameters of what constitutes “far fetched” and “practical” may become blurry depending on the person and their personal biases, I believe those who give even a half an effort to viewing things impartially can come to some sort of consensus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
This is fiction, THERE ARE NO RULES.
There is coherency, based on a story’s implied rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
You don't know shit about writing do you?
Yet apparently, he knew enough for you to reference his “gift” with words.

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Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
I'm educated, and am a working professional in the field of education.
Out of curiosity, what do you teach?
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Old 2009-04-07, 21:47   Link #244
james0246
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Thanks for the partial defense Shadow, but since Spicy~Noodles seems to be a proponent of ''l'art pour l'art'' (art for art's sake), our discussion was bound to end in tragedy anyway . That is not to say that I do not understand the value of art for art's sake (Emily Dickinson is a great example of this), or even necessarily disagree with the ideal, but I rarely feel that any creator is actually simply creating for the sheer act of creating (which is why I identified Spicy~Noodles as a Romantic ).

I'm also interested in what you teach Spicy~Noodles? Is it art education?
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Old 2009-04-07, 23:46   Link #245
Spicy~Noodles
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I taught English, Linguistics, and World Cultures. Though I am the Academic Director/Principal currently. I shouldn't be looking at animesuki on school computers but this will be one of those "exceptions". LOL I am setting a bad example for the students.

I ask some rather simple questions, does it really matter if someone who is writing a story of their own, though it may have been originally been action orientated to change from time to time? Is it our right to cirtique incomplete work? I feel, and it's just a personal feeling that you can't label something until its completely done. If it's ongoing, then we should think of it as exactly what it is, ongoing.

I didn't begin reading the manga or watch the anime expecting it to be anything. Though I quickly realized that it is, in fact focused on action/fighting. I always kept in my mind, that while this may be its "primary" focus, it may not be the only genre. Romance can always be sub-genre. Only after its completed can we put such a label on. Teachers don't score students until they have turned in their completed work. And that is one of factors that drive me this way. We aren't teaching this writer anything, or will be change his view. Who are we to score a professional doing his work? Not even I, or any of my qualified staff would dare do such a thing to someone of his calibur.

My secretary is yelling at me, I'll talk to you guys later when I'm off hours. I have plenty more to say.
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Old 2009-04-08, 00:45   Link #246
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy~Noodles View Post
I ask some rather simple questions, does it really matter if someone who is writing a story of their own, though it may have been originally been action orientated to change from time to time? Is it our right to cirtique incomplete work? I feel, and it's just a personal feeling that you can't label something until its completely done. If it's ongoing, then we should think of it as exactly what it is, ongoing.
(Before you read, this is not a rant...even if it long (Shadow knows that I like to post long responses) .)

To a certain extent, you are correct. It is disingenuous to judge a particular series based on only the parts, rather than the whole (which is why myself, and several others, like to critique the logic of some of the posters who routinely post comments spewing forth hate against Kishimoto's writing). But, we can critique, quite adequately as well as relevantly, the construction and design of specific arcs, and with a close reading, specific chapters and even panels. And, even without a close reading, we can still critique whether each chapter actually fits together on a week to week basis. Etc.

That being said, I can't help but feel your approach to reviewing a creative work is a bit...unrealistic. If you disliked the first 100 pages of a 500 page novel, would you still finish the book? If you don't enjoy the first 30 minutes of a 2 hour film would you still sit around for the next hour and a half? What if I told you that the last 4 episodes of a 26 episode series are great, but never commented positively on the first 22 episodes, would you then watch the series anyway, just in the hopes of seeing the brilliance of the latter episodes? What if, instead of 26 episodes, it is 104? Or, to give a really extreme real world scenario, were the war protesters for the Vietnam War fallacious to claim that the war was wrong before it ended (Or, more recently, with the Iraq War?)?

No, these are all judgment calls based on our perception of the facts and information provided. If you do not like the first 30 minutes of a movie, and consequently walked out, then that means that you found something in the first 30 minutes that caused you to want to leave the theatre, and have, in effect, judged and critequed the creators of the film deciding that their creative endevour was , more or less, bad. Etc. (The war question, of course, is a bit silly, considering that there are people that are always pacifists, so they would claim that any war is wrong. But still, that is their judgment of the moral questions surrounding war...)

Additionally, while your real world scenario of grading a person's paper is, of course, correct, just because you are obligated to complete the paper in order to officially grade the work (in order to help the student to improve), that does not mean that you actually liked the first parts of the paper you were grading (If I was paid to review a film, then, of course, I would sit through the entire film whether I liked it or not, but if I am simply watching for my own pleasure, then I can make the judgement call on whether I wish to continue watching a film or not. Additionally, if I were to just sitting down to watch a movie on television/cable then the very fact that I would choose one film over another implicitly means that I have judged one film as better (whatever "better" may mean at any given moment) compared to the other choices). Obligation is different from pleasure, and we, as fans, are ultimately concerned with pleasure, and while that may be selfish, Kishimoto is creating a piece of art in order to be consumed by the public (and since it is meant for public consumption, it must be analyzed differently than a term paper for school (one is a professional work of fiction, the other is a test that needs to be improved). So, he is directly feeding our selfish desires, and, consequently, it is well within our rights to express whether we have been satisfied or not.

(As an aside, since you revealed some personal info, I only felt it was fair that I reveal some equal amount of information. I have also taught before - Film Theory and Criticism was my forte for several years; that is somewhat similar to an English class . That being said, I generally just live off of old money (I encourage all to start a trust for their family), so I do not work much (and have never held a job of such prominence as your job).

Last edited by james0246; 2009-04-08 at 01:21.
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Old 2009-04-08, 01:33   Link #247
naruske
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wow some of you guys seriously have too much time on your hands
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Old 2009-04-08, 02:02   Link #248
Spicy~Noodles
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Naruske said, "wow some of you guys seriously have too much time on your hands "

- I bet you have more free time than I do. I just prefer to work on my freetime.

I agree James, it's alright to share your personal views on his (Kishimoto) professional work. Nothing wrong with that, but why suggest an alternative? I will admit your knowledge of film theory seems far sharper than my own. I'm sure you did your homework.

Humans are critics by nature, but to critique something is to share your own thoughts and feelings in a discussion. To review it, I ask, what are we actually reviewing? The story as it is? Or are we reviewing the writer themself? Is it fair to review the writer and the choices they made? Is he up for trial? Or is the story up for trial?

In essence I feel its good we talk about the story more than the writer. It's offensive to discuss something that doesn't matter. It's hypothetical but, maybe the writers father had a stroke and he/she has been at the hospital all day, only to come back and rush the next chapter and not put in their best effort.

Is it not better (I'm not saying it's right) that we just talk about, why a character seemed to make a decision that was completely unnatural to them. As opposed to trying to critique the writer themself. Are we teaching him or are we having a discussion about his manga? I won't be an ass and start throwing out definations but we should think carefully about that.

As for watching a bad movie or reading a bad book, if you go through the first 100 pages and think it's terrible. That is about as much someone SHOULD say, "It's terrible, what a boring book." Still while it seems we should be able to bash the writer on this, we would always have to cite that we only read the first 100 pages. Since we aren't talking about the entire book since we don't know the rest of the story. To judge the author as a writer for his first 100 pages, isn't correct. "Never judge a book by it's cover." It's something we should keep in mind, and we can apply it in more than one way. You may not HAVE TO read the entire book, but you also ONLY judge that you have read. Not the author's ability. "Bad writing." that gets me good. If it's so bad, just go for better things. Works well in life, ^.^ Apply it to life, it will help you on your way towards happiness. If work is bad, go for better things. I'll have to think about what I wrote and edit later, as I have many things to do.

LOL I'm proving your point. Oh well. I'll talk more about this later.

Last edited by Spicy~Noodles; 2009-04-08 at 02:04. Reason: Naruske
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Old 2009-04-08, 02:42   Link #249
james0246
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Fair enough. I just wanted to fully understand your viewpoint before I withdraw from the discussion. It has been pleasnat talking with you, but now I must be off to bed, it is far to late for me to be up writing long responses .
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Old 2009-04-08, 06:42   Link #250
filthydani
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kakaish is confirmed dead, looking at that picture, all the highlighted gray faces are dead and kaka is one of em
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Old 2009-04-08, 07:01   Link #251
DeDe
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from ohana

Spoiler for chapter 443:


translated by Yasha from NF


Spoiler for english:
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Old 2009-04-08, 10:57   Link #252
Fran~
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=80295
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Old 2009-04-17, 07:59   Link #253
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I guess the newest chapter(chapter 444) proves how badly executed was the naruto vs. pain finale. But then again almost all of Naruto's fights were kinda lame so I guess it was expected <_<
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