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Old 2009-04-02, 14:14   Link #81
Phenomenal
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It ain't over...Not yet!

God Realm can't be put down just by that after all he's taken...l
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:15   Link #82
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Two quick things to add to that:

1.) Naruto's MO has always been to protect, so Naruto had the option of killing or defeating his foes, until:

2.) Killing Nagato would only prove him right. Specifically, Nagato is the product of the constant cycle of violence/death, so killing Nagato would only (symbolically) spurn the cycle onward, resulting in future generations also needlessly fighting and killing each other. Naruto, consequently, must not kill Nagato, else he simply becomes Nagato.
Well said!
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:16   Link #83
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Another triangle???... first, Sannin, now the "Rain kids"... even the rain kids had a doujutsu user like Sasuke.
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:57   Link #84
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Another triangle???... first, Sannin, now the "Rain kids"... even the rain kids had a doujutsu user like Sasuke.
Man, Nagato's so pale even as a kid...
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Old 2009-04-02, 15:17   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-Wow, Nagato has red hair? Who would have guessed? And no matter how much I look at it, Naruto still resembles Yahiko, right down to his smile.
Is pretty much like Karin's hair, I didn't know she was actually a redhead until the first Color spread featuring Snake came out.
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Old 2009-04-02, 15:46   Link #86
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Man, Nagato's so pale even as a kid...
Orochimaru was the same...
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Old 2009-04-02, 15:59   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Interesting comparisons being made here, even if they are reverse comparisons. The Naruto and Nagato comparison makes sense. Where Nagato gave in to violence and hate, Naruto will break free of the chain, etc. But, what about the Sasuke to Yahiko and Sakura to Konan comparisons? Is this possibly foreshadowing that Sasuke will not die (since Yahiko is dead)? Or, that he will not destroy Konoha (since Yahiko did)? et cetera. As for Sakura...I guess this is foreshadowing that she will never be as pretty/hot as Konan?
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Old 2009-04-02, 16:18   Link #88
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Interesting comparisons being made here, even if they are reverse comparisons. The Naruto and Nagato comparison makes sense. Where Nagato gave in to violence and hate, Naruto will break free of the chain, etc. But, what about the Sasuke to Yahiko and Sakura to Konan comparisons? Is this possibly foreshadowing that Sasuke will not die (since Yahiko is dead)? Or, that he will not destroy Konoha (since Yahiko did)? et cetera.
That makes sense since both Naruto and Nagato want peace (though some desire it through less sane means). And I never really made the connection with Yahiko and Sasuke, I guess that makes sense now though since as a kid Yahiko despised the fact that his village was so weak and always "crying (metaphor for the rain)", and Sasuke want(ed)s revenge on Konoha for the destruction of his clan.

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As for Sakura...I guess this is foreshadowing that she will never be as pretty/hot as Konan?
Pwned right there.
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Old 2009-04-02, 16:25   Link #89
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If you look at Sakura on that colour spread when she was younger she looked like a cute girl, she gets older and she looks like a man with pink hair, and Nagato is a red haired Orochimaru...I find it funny from Sarutobi onwards they have a tendency of producing pupils that will destroy the world:

Sarutobi - Orichimaru
Jiraiya - Nagato, Konan and Yahiko
Kakashi - Sasuke

Minato missed the cycle, also worth mentioning I think that Naruto is more like Yahiko, tried to protect his friends and has a smile on his face also being the non-genius then Sasuke and Nagato the geniuses who had their families killed infront of them, starting a chain of hatred for them, they had a doujutsu, they seek revenge, forces their pain and justice on others, they have felt pain and feel that Naruto does not understand the only difference is Nagato wants to achieve peace and made Naruto understand his pain if only for a little bit.

I want to see more about the history of the Rain kids they seem like interesting people, I demand Nagato Gaiden!
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Old 2009-04-02, 16:28   Link #90
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We might see that, when Naruto got to Nagato....
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Old 2009-04-02, 16:50   Link #91
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Interesting comparisons being made here, even if they are reverse comparisons. The Naruto and Nagato comparison makes sense. Where Nagato gave in to violence and hate, Naruto will break free of the chain, etc. But, what about the Sasuke to Yahiko and Sakura to Konan comparisons? Is this possibly foreshadowing that Sasuke will not die (since Yahiko is dead)? Or, that he will not destroy Konoha (since Yahiko did)? et cetera. As for Sakura...I guess this is foreshadowing that she will never be as pretty/hot as Konan?
Well in terms of personality and role as kids, I agree with Cub that Yahiko is the better Naruto comparison. Nagato is a better Sasuke comparison being the angsty, genius doujutsu-user. The only difference is that Nagato was timid and unsure of himself as a child whereas Sasuke was arrogant. Nagato is just carrying on Yahiko's dream now that he's dead but he twisted and perverted it. Nagato could be seen as kind of a "what-if" for Sasuke had Naruto been killed while they were young and still friends. Konan is what Sakura might've become if Sasuke had allowed her to come with him when he left Konoha.
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Old 2009-04-02, 18:15   Link #92
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LoL, do you really think that? Because Gaara was like 6-7 years old when he started to kill chuunins...and other people.
He was the bad guy at that time.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Is it because we think or believe that Naruto is pure of heart?
He is pure like Goku was in dragonball, he didn't kill Haku even while he was thinking that Haku killed Sasuke. He didn't kill Mizuki, Gaara, etc...
Being "pure of heart" is just one reason among many reasons that add up. Kishimoto probably does not want the kids to lose their innocence too soon, so they don't kill people without emotions because they are not grown up ninja yet. As opposed to that Kakashi is a grown up ninja, he kills without emotion when he has to do so in a mission. Just look at Shikamaru's fight against the undead idiot who killed his sensei, Shikamaru had strong emotions just a child should have, in the end he didn't kill Hidan, he just disabled him and took him prisoner.
This was the case even in the Kakashi gaiden: kids with lots of emotions while Yondaime the cold blooded killer. That day the 4th probably killed about hundred stone ninja, but at the end of the day when he was talking with kakashi and rin he was the kind and wise sensei who cares about his students. That is what i call a cool ninja, a child cannot be cool that way
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Old 2009-04-02, 18:43   Link #93
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post

2.) Killing Nagato would only prove him right. Specifically, Nagato is the product of the constant cycle of violence/death, so killing Nagato would only (symbolically) spurn the cycle onward, resulting in future generations also needlessly fighting and killing each other. Naruto, consequently, must not kill Nagato, else he simply becomes Nagato.
That was deep...
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Old 2009-04-02, 19:01   Link #94
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That was deep...
its a little late for that now
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Old 2009-04-02, 19:01   Link #95
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Two quick things to add to that:

1.) Naruto's MO has always been to protect, so Naruto had the option of killing or defeating his foes, until:

2.) Killing Nagato would only prove him right. Specifically, Nagato is the product of the constant cycle of violence/death, so killing Nagato would only (symbolically) spurn the cycle onward, resulting in future generations also needlessly fighting and killing each other. Naruto, consequently, must not kill Nagato, else he simply becomes Nagato.
Though I agree with the most part of this, I wouldn't neccessarily say he becomes Nagato if he kills him. It all depends on what you're killing him for. If Naruto kills Nagato because he destroyed his village and killed people he cared about then yes, I would say he could possibly become another Pain. But if he maintains himself, and kills Nagato so he won't destroy anyone else's village then I think Naruto may actually become a better stronger person because of it.
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Old 2009-04-02, 19:06   Link #96
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LOL, on Hinata's...erm...growth! YEA!
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Old 2009-04-02, 21:19   Link #97
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Two quick things to add to that:

1.) Naruto's MO has always been to protect, so Naruto had the option of killing or defeating his foes, until:

2.) Killing Nagato would only prove him right. Specifically, Nagato is the product of the constant cycle of violence/death, so killing Nagato would only (symbolically) spurn the cycle onward, resulting in future generations also needlessly fighting and killing each other. Naruto, consequently, must not kill Nagato, else he simply becomes Nagato.
No it doesn't, it means the guy had to be stopped for good, period.
There is a cycle of violence, hatred and revenge, it's a fact regardless of Nagato's death. Nagato's belief isn't in this known problem it's in his crazy answer to indiscriminately slaughter tens of millions every now and then.
Killing Nagato doesn't prove him right, it proves he was too insane and dangerous to be spared.
Seriously the whole "If I kill him I would become like him" has been way overdone, especially with caped heroes in spandex.
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Old 2009-04-02, 21:57   Link #98
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No it doesn't, it means the guy had to be stopped for good, period.
There is a cycle of violence, hatred and revenge, it's a fact regardless of Nagato's death. Nagato's belief isn't in this known problem it's in his crazy answer to indiscriminately slaughter tens of millions every now and then.
Killing Nagato doesn't prove him right, it proves he was too insane and dangerous to be spared.
Seriously the whole "If I kill him I would become like him" has been way overdone, especially with caped heroes in spandex.
Symbolically, outright killing Nagato would only prove that Nagato, and Sasuke, are correct, and that the only way to answer violence is with further violence - that revenge is a constant never ending cycle of pain, creating hate, leading to death, leading back to pain. Naruto cannot kill Nagato, because if Naruto does kill him, then he would simply be Sasuke with blonde hair , and consequently Naruto would not then be able to symbolically face Sasuke when he comes a knockin' in a few chapters/arcs, because Naruto would not have the moral high ground in regards to oppose Sasuke's wishes and desires (this is a fictional story, so Naruto must be diametrically opposed to Sasuke's belief system, or else their fight would simply be a fight of selfish desires).

In the end, Kishimoto is obviously a Gundam fan, and we simply need to accept that .

edit: I meant to say Gundam Seed...

Last edited by james0246; 2009-04-02 at 22:51.
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Old 2009-04-02, 22:30   Link #99
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I know how bad Naruto is as a manga, but i simply can't stop watching... i know i will be seeing kage bush no jutsu for the next 4 years and rasengan finishing sasuke off, but i always tune in thursday and refresh onemanga anyways, sigh.. what a stupid fanboy I am.
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Old 2009-04-02, 22:35   Link #100
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