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Old 2009-04-02, 09:58   Link #81
kagato3
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well to be fair, he's not that bad. Freeza was a monster who destroyed an entire race and then laughed ecstatically about it. Ulq beat the hell out of the main hero, but generally avoids attacking the other characters. He hasn't killed or fatally injured anyone close to the hero (those shinigami guards were fodder and Orihime revived them anyway). And when he does attack, he seems to take no obvious satisfaction from it. He hasn't done anything that I'd consider irredeemable. To me, his role has no DBZ equivalent. He seems much more the aloof type like Uchiha Itachi from Naruto, Shinomori Aoshi from Rurouni Kenshin or even Byakuya from this series. These types can be very cruel, but they aren't actually evil at the core.

I don't want to see Ulq or Grimm turn outright good (Bleach is filled to the brim with good guys who never die), but I don't want to see them remain Aizen's lapdogs either. If they live, hopefully, there'll be a way for them to turn away from Aizen, but still cross swords with the good guys sometimes.
I'm not sure you are seeing Ulq's true self. He enjoys breaking people everything he says and does is to make others suffer, all his conversations with Orihime were not out of kindness they were him taunting her as he baseicly is telling her all your friends that have come here are going to die or trying to get her to doubt herself as with his talk about how the heart dosen't exist or why she didn't help earlyer. He has been shown to have a good deal of admoration for Azein's ablity to do the same as well. As for not killing or fatally injureing anyone close to the hero, in responce to Orihime slaping him he sought out and proved a fight with Ichigo again useing mind games and pretty much killed him. He saved Loly not because he cared but because she was makeing Orihime suffer infront of Ichigo. And this fight again shows how he likes to break people. You'll notice he shows the most reaction when it is clear that his mind games aren't working.
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Old 2009-04-02, 10:06   Link #82
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Grimjow fits the "Vegeta" role far more closely then Ulq. and realy there hasn't been anything that even remotely points to Ulq being redeamable so far. He has been shown to be completely loyal to Azein, a huge sadist, and sees humans as something completely beneth him. He's pretty much raised every shonen karmic death flag there is. If anything I would say Ulq fit the "Freeza" role.
Uli doesn't fit Freezer role cause he ins't acting on his own .. he is just following orders
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Old 2009-04-02, 10:29   Link #83
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
I'm not sure you are seeing Ulq's true self. He enjoys breaking people everything he says and does is to make others suffer, all his conversations with Orihime were not out of kindness they were him taunting her as he baseicly is telling her all your friends that have come here are going to die or trying to get her to doubt herself as with his talk about how the heart dosen't exist or why she didn't help earlyer. He has been shown to have a good deal of admoration for Azein's ablity to do the same as well. As for not killing or fatally injureing anyone close to the hero, in responce to Orihime slaping him he sought out and proved a fight with Ichigo again useing mind games and pretty much killed him. He saved Loly not because he cared but because she was makeing Orihime suffer infront of Ichigo. And this fight again shows how he likes to break people. You'll notice he shows the most reaction when it is clear that his mind games aren't working.
Oh I realize all that, there's been more than a few arguments where I've pointed out Ulq's actions aren't out of kindness. I'm not saying Ulq is a good guy. I'm saying he hasn't shown a level of maliciousness that he can be compared to a character like Freeza who is so obviously evil that everyone simply wants him to die. The characters I used as examples at the end of my last post were bad guys who turned out not be "evil" when everything was said and done. Hell, Itachi killed his whole family but he still wasn't evil (but baby-killing Oro was undeniably evil) They may not necessarily ever become good not even anti-heroes, but they are more sympathetic than flat-out villains.

Shounen karma is pretty forgiving, the only things I consider that make a person absolutely irredeemable

- personally killing one of the main character's loved ones (though ordering someone to do it and watching is ok)
- taking obvious joy in said killing
- being the final villain

Other than that it depends largely on how the character is portrayed and how popular they become. Characters commit atrocities and live all the time in shounen, sometimes even becoming good guys.

Edit: Also, being a bishounen increases the likelihood of a villain becoming good guy at least 50%
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Old 2009-04-02, 11:27   Link #84
Zu Ra
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* It continues from the previous chapter, Ichigo beat Ulquiorra and fired a cero at him at close range.The scene changes to Rukia and Rudoban, the head of execution squad who is in a really bad condition with ice covering his whole body. His tree branches are majorly broken.“If your ability is to create subordinates from your fruit, then things are easy.” The female shinigami says. “I just have to destroy the branches that the fruit grows from.”The buffalo headed guy stays silent knowing that what Rukia says is true. None of his branches that are currently covered in ice can grow the skull fruits. However, before Rukia can finish this fight, something falls on the stone ground between the both of them. Rukia sees the side of Yammy’s face and his big hand that swiftly swings at Rudoban’s neck. She is surprised to see him attack an ally. At that moment, the effect of Yammy’s fall breaks the stone ground under Rukia. She loses her balance and falls from the second floor of the tower with her head down, but she manages to land on the ground gracefully.Yammy continues to fall down further until he reaches the ground near Chad and Renji who are dealing with the other arrancars.


* All of them are surprised by the sudden appearance of Yammy. “Weird..” Chad wonders. “I fought with him once in the human world and remembered him as a big guy. But I can’t recall him being such a giant?” Renji doesn’t seem to believe that it can be that way even though Chad insists that his body looks different from the last time.All this time Yammy doesn’t pay attention to them even a little. His eyes look angry and he screams out loud. “That four eyed bastard, I’m gonna kill him!!” Rukia and the others see this reaction, so the three of them prepare to fight him. Suddenly there is the sound of an explosion from the top of the dome. Everyone stops and looks at where the sound came from. At that moment, they see a big light column from the top of the dome reaching to the sand floor below.“…This spirit energy… is Ichigo’s…!” Rukia says looking above surprised.


* The scene goes back the top of the Las Noches dome. Amongst the smoke Ichigo in his hollow form stands in the air. His right hand holds his sword while his left hand holds Ulquiorra’s right wing. The fourth espada’s bottom half is completely gone. Ichigo tosses the body away, and then he moves towards it preparing to stab his throat. Before Ichigo can stab Ulquiorra, Ishida holds Ichigo’s wrist back. “It’s enough” the quincy says. “He’s surely the enemy, but we don’t need to kill him. It’s enough, Kurosaki.”


* Hearing that, Ichigo tightens the grasp on his sword intending to strike but Ishida also increases his grip. “Can’t you hear me, Kurosaki…!” Ishida doesn’t give up. “I said it’s enough…! If you do anything more than this, you won’t be like a human anymore…!”However, Ichigo has no reaction towards Ishida’s words. He still focuses on striking the enemy’s throat in front of him. Ishida screams again hoping that he can get through to Ichigo. “Kurosaki!!!”This time, Ichigo reacts to Ishida’s voice for the first time. Instead of striking Ulquiorra’s throat, the sword stabs into Ishida’s abdomen. His body flies away as if he’s a rag doll.“Ishida-kun!!!!” Orihime screams frightened by seeing Ishida flying away with Ichigo’s sword stabbing into his body. While she hurries to the quincy, she hears a voice that makes her stop.“…he..help..” Ichigo mutters as if it's a mantra. “I… will… help… you…”Then, Orihime realizes what happened earlier.“Because of me…”


* She thinks to herself. “Because I said that… Kurosaki-kun is trying to help me.”She closes her eyes painfully. “Why” She asks herself. “I have tried so hard not to be Kurosaki-kun’s burden. I came here because I wanted to protect Kurosaki-kun and it should have been like that. In the end, why do I have to rely on Kurosaki-kun again?”Ichigo moves towards Ishida and prepares to fire a cero via his horns.“Wait Kurosaki-kun!!!” Orihime screams… with all her voice “Kurosaki-kun!!!!”However, Ichigo doesn’t listen to her, but focuses on charging his spirit power into his horns. While Orihime thinks she should do something…Suddenly, Ulquiorra who is meant to be seriously injured jumps on Ichigo, his lower half is already healed. He uses his spirit energy spear to cut Ichigo’s left horn accurately. Swiftly the spirit energy that had gathered in Ichigo’s horns loses its stability. After it is cut off the energy swells into a big balloon and then explodes in his face.


Credits : Danna
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Old 2009-04-02, 11:44   Link #85
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Orihime is going to feel so guilty that she'll take her life.. cause its her fault all her fault
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Old 2009-04-02, 11:53   Link #86
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I think it is quite plausible that Orihime dies. It's not that I "hate" her or anything. my fandom doesn't go so far as to "hate" any one character (unless they are filler)

But the sheer impact the event would have on the plotline is just enormous. it would really bring a lot of emotion into the story. it would really drive Ichigo to mature and grow. to finally lose his "Chocolate"

I think it was mentioned a while ago by some random Shinigami that "she might become a strong shinigami one day" she would need to die in order to become a shinigami of course.

lets just hope Kubo finally has the nerve to kill off one of his characters though.
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:12   Link #87
Justin Kim
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Maybe the fight will turn fair game after all, Ulq still has a chance, ditto with Ichigo. I mean that was so overpowering of Ichigo to completely blast him to pieces, let alone the form didn't seem like it was entirely trying. I mean imagine if Ichigo had some mentality in that form, like he could control his actions, and went all out on Ulq knowing all the moves. Ulq would be in some serious trouble lol.
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:27   Link #88
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Wow, that sounds damn awesome. And yh, something tragic will befall Orihime.
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:28   Link #89
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:37   Link #90
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So Orihime was contemplating on what to do? She better do something this time!
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:37   Link #91
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Kakashi
That's not to say her death is in the offing...but the overtures *are* in place if Kubo decides to go down that path. More likely she'll just go through some run-of-the-mill "horrifying" trauma though, knowing Bleach.
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Old 2009-04-02, 12:58   Link #92
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Inoue dying would be a SERIOUS surprise to me. Seriously that would be crazy
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Old 2009-04-02, 13:04   Link #93
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Riite...All the ichiruki people who pretend to like Orihime will be partying like a rockstar when that happens! Not saying that about you dearie, but there are some people like that. <3

ANYWAYS. I want Orihime to deal with IchiGORGEOUS( get it? ahahahaha im so witty!) alone. I don't want her with her to do it with her friends and especially not Rukia! (Who honestly thinks that though? Odds are slim to none)! For shipping purposes (XD bite me!) and because she has to do something for Ichigo this time. It's always him sacrificing himself for her, fighting for her, etc, she has to repay the favor! If she doesn't I'll be very disappointed. It always seems like she's going to do something epic , but then the next chapter comes around and she's being all passive again. She has to fix what she broke!
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Old 2009-04-02, 13:23   Link #94
HayashiTakara
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If Orihime dies, then Kubo is a serious Sadist. Torturing the girl throughout the entire series just to kill her off at the end, Sadism at its finest. But something tells me that won't happen,
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Old 2009-04-02, 13:34   Link #95
Scarlett_Rain55
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Sadly I can, she's a walking cheat code.
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:18   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlett_Rain55 View Post
Riite...All the ichiruki people who pretend to like Orihime will be partying like a rockstar when that happens! Not saying that about you dearie, but there are some people like that. <3
Of course, that is true. 8D

But given that this is Bleach, i cannot honestly see Inoue dying, and this has nothing to do with preference or anything.
There is probably gonna be angst-moments, later in the chapters, and i suspect that "Ichigo"'s form, will break now and go back to normal.
And God, i hope that there will not be another fight or something, with the real-Kurosaki-kun, fighting against a healed-Ulqui now, with the strength of the main-shonen-hero heart. Just, no.
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:25   Link #97
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Orihime dies? LOL people, that is not going to happen.
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:27   Link #98
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That's why i hate shipping... the whole shipping thing ruins any possibility to analyze a character without a crowd of Shippers and Haters throwing food between them and ruin everything.

The only thing i will say is that a death with significance to the plot is welcome to me... if you think about it, in Bleach, if a human dies could enter in the SS world, it's not the end to her/his existence.

I can't forget Shunō's words about that the power that Orihime has its because of Ichigo... i can't forget Aizen's face when he saw for the first time her powers (he can't deceive us there, he was impressed)....
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:37   Link #99
Vinak
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we'd have a fun arc with Ichigo and Co. searching SS for her soul.

Edit: wait wait. they can see souls. so if she dies then she'd just be Orihime with a chain sticking out of her chest. she'd just have to discovery her shinigami powers.
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Old 2009-04-02, 14:52   Link #100
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Ya know Orihime could have i dunno put up a shield or something instead off standing there lamenting how its all her fault
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