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Old 2009-08-24, 10:05   Link #1441
zato_1one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golthin View Post
Spoiler for how naive can we be?:
I think it was because we didn't expect it to pull such a cheap solution to solve this fiance issue. Even worst, it made him looked like a good person (but careless) which destroyed the image of Charlotte even more. Considering that she treated him like an eyesore and didn't show any care about him at all. It will be very interesting to see her reaction when she knows about this. But I also don't deny the possibility that it may be his plan though.

This is like the declaration of the winner because the fiance problems have already been solved for both Charlotte and Teppei. They clearly show the affection to each other. If it isn't Charlotte ending then it will be harem ending. IMO
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Old 2009-08-24, 10:12   Link #1442
golthin
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
hmm, I must be the only one in here that likes this episode (well I like VC also..)

Spoiler for spoiler (huge spoiler):
I watched the episode again, and I noticed something I overlooked. I will have to agree with you, if we obey the universal law of anime and manga.

Spoiler for one of the truth about anime and manga:
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Old 2009-08-24, 10:43   Link #1443
Zetsubo
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This an example of what the venerable Hayao Miyazaki calls "Really bad."
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Old 2009-08-24, 10:47   Link #1444
Zetsubo
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I dropped this anime after I saw how the "social club" arc went.

It was Charolette doing the slow dancing, and Teppie having erections telling her he has "larg sticks of gum" in his pants.

Sylvie didn't even move a muscle to see her friend slow dancing so sweetly with her Fiance ?

Sylvie opted to teach Teppie how to "drink tea" ?

Damn... I saw it and dropped it.

Same way I dropped needless.
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Old 2009-08-24, 10:52   Link #1445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
I think it was because we didn't expect it to pull such a cheap solution to solve this fiance issue. Even worst, it made him looked like a good person (but careless) which destroyed the image of Charlotte even more. Considering that she treated him like an eyesore and didn't show any care about him at all. It will be very interesting to see her reaction when she knows about this. But I also don't deny the possibility that it may be his plan though.

This is like the declaration of the winner because the fiance problems have already been solved for both Charlotte and Teppei. They clearly show the affection to each other. If it isn't Charlotte ending then it will be harem ending. IMO
This is what pissed me off about the episode the most besides the other what i consider pointless crap.

They made him seem like a decent guy no evil plans just looking out for the welfare of his country. Charlotte treated him like shit for no reason. Im not saying she had to like the guy nor had to marry him but he died and it seems like she didnt give a fuck about him she seems to only care about Teppei and as another poster said the way she acts doesnt exactly make her a good friend nor a caring person unless it happens to be towards Teppei, but the formula is sound and this is how it was meant to play out. However her reaction when she finds out hes dead will nail home how i feel about her whole character, there is still a chance i could change my thinking about her. To me there are so many incidents that ruined her image, Teppei is welcome to her. Either its bad writing to kill him off right after introducing him or there is more to it. If he is truly dead then i have lost faith in the writers to able to finish this story decently.

I actually hope the guy comes back
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Old 2009-08-24, 11:24   Link #1446
Freya
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Uhh most likely or not, it was a arranged marriage. From the looks of it, Charlotte never had interest at all. Yeah I guess she could have showed some care...but oh well. He was only for this short arc anyways.
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Old 2009-08-24, 12:39   Link #1447
Skyfall
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I am having hard time figuring out how seriously the show wants us to take it, as far as all of this terrorist drama is concerned - supposedly the events taking place are serious, but the presentation is intentionally being hilariously stupid to the point the two sort of take away from each other. As a matter of compromise, lets just say this was an "interesting" episode

And Hartman ...they killed him just like that ? Seriously ? It wasn't even a very smart move he did ... and here i was hoping for some "political drama" of some scale, but they just made Charlotte free for the picking. Disappointing, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
They made him seem like a decent guy no evil plans just looking out for the welfare of his country. Charlotte treated him like shit for no reason.
Ah, do i smell hyperbole in the air As far as i remember (and i remember pretty well), the show didn't present anything to even remotely support such a claim. Did she exhibit anything that would show he likes to be his fiance ? No, obviously not. But she isn't supposed to either, and that is world's apart from "treating someone like shit". It is perfectly fine to have likes and dislikes among characters, but if you are going to dislike someone, do so for the things they have actually done, not for things you wish they had done so it would be easier to dislike them.
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Old 2009-08-24, 12:57   Link #1448
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Ok, I guess after reading latest posts I won't waste my time on watching this episode, I'll wait for the next. I've already broken my rules to not read spoilers for this series, so ... I know i could be "a bit disappointed" seeing our princess.
But now I'm curious to know what is wrong with VC. I'll go to the appropriate forum to check it out.
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Old 2009-08-24, 12:59   Link #1449
Foreshadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Ah, do i smell hyperbole in the air As far as i remember (and i remember pretty well), the show didn't present anything to even remotely support such a claim. Did she exhibit anything that would show he likes to be his fiance ? No, obviously not. But she isn't supposed to either, and that is world's apart from "treating someone like shit". It is perfectly fine to have likes and dislikes among characters, but if you are going to dislike someone, do so for the things they have actually done, not for things you wish they had done so it would be easier to dislike them.
Maybe not like how he described her, but at least He (Hartmen, haltmen?) showed some courtesy when around Charlotte. From all the behavior of Charlotte she treats him almost like he's nonexistent. A problem with her country? Go to Teppei? She treats the subject of him being her fiance like Taboo.

On a second hand, I haven't posted about the most recent episode because usually I'm really upset after watching the latest. So I decided to wait a bit before posting. But the only emotion I really experienced this time around was disappointment. I'm going to drop this series until It's completed, But I'll hang around the forum to see reactions.
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:05   Link #1450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I am having hard time figuring out how seriously the show wants us to take it, as far as all of this terrorist drama is concerned - supposedly the events taking place are serious, but the presentation is intentionally being hilariously stupid to the point the two sort of take away from each other. As a matter of compromise, lets just say this was an "interesting" episode

And Hartman ...they killed him just like that ? Seriously ? It wasn't even a very smart move he did ... and here i was hoping for some "political drama" of some scale, but they just made Charlotte free for the picking. Disappointing, really.



Ah, do i smell hyperbole in the air As far as i remember (and i remember pretty well), the show didn't present anything to even remotely support such a claim. Did she exhibit anything that would show he likes to be his fiance ? No, obviously not. But she isn't supposed to either, and that is world's apart from "treating someone like shit". It is perfectly fine to have likes and dislikes among characters, but if you are going to dislike someone, do so for the things they have actually done, not for things you wish they had done so it would be easier to dislike them.
(Exasperated yet again)Skyfal that BS and u know it as you can easily read i never stated that she should like him but i still think she treated him like shit this is not my imagination talking dude its perception maybe you thought she treated him like sunshine i didnt see it. I also stated that she does not have to like the arranged marriages (i supported her and Teppei on this fact) are usually nothing to write home about but she could have at least treated him somewhat better. I dont act that way to people just randomly now she could have a good reason for not liking him but i have not seen anything to move that point along. In other words till she shows me why i shouldn't like her attitude towards now deceased suitor #1 i will continue said line of thinking. You only broke down half of what i totally stated. The point the character in question deserved at least some courtesy. Im not trying to be a dick skyfall and im not trying to be rude either, this is how i see it and when i sufficient evidence to change my mind i will.
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:13   Link #1451
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreshadow View Post
Maybe not like how he described her, but at least He (Hartmen, haltmen?) showed some courtesy when around Charlotte. From all the behavior of Charlotte she treats him almost like he's nonexistent. A problem with her country? Go to Teppei? She treats the subject of him being her fiance like Taboo.
Whether he showed "courtesy" is debatable (He certainly wasn't considering how other people could react and whether it would cause Charlotte discomfort when her fiancee announces his existence by swirling down from the sky in a flamboyant fashion in a petal cloud .... in school). "All the behavior of Charlotte" regarding him constituted a total of two short scenes in the above environment, so i am not going to hold it against her if she didn't have him as her top concern.

Also, we have no way to say how well the two knew each other, or how close (or nonexistent) their relationship was - when you have matters that concern you and wish those discussed, you obviously go to people around whom you feel comfortable around and trust, not the other way around. And all that assuming she actually does hold any actual power, which i believe to be highly unlikely - so what i saw was a situation where she is uneasy about something, and wanted a friendly ear in order to ease some anxiety - not like anything actually depends on her decisions, does it ?

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(Exasperated yet again)Skyfal that BS and u know it as you can easily read i never stated that she should like him but i still think she treated him like shit this is not my imagination talking dude its perception maybe you thought she treated him like sunshine i didnt see it. I also stated that she does not have to like the arranged marriages (i supported her and Teppei on this fact) are usually nothing to write home about but she could have at least treated him somewhat better. I dont act that way to people just randomly now she could have a good reason for not liking him but i have not seen anything to move that point along. In other words till she shows me why i shouldn't like her attitude towards now deceased suitor #1 i will continue said line of thinking. You only broke down half of what i totally stated. The point the character in question deserved at least some courtesy. Im not trying to be a dick this is how i see it and when i sufficient evidence to change my mind i will.
No, in fact you are making things up when you are saying "she treated him like shit" or discourteous. Please calm down, step back and show me which of her actions warrant such a statement, because most i could see (and not like there is much to see from) is discomfort in his presence, in front of her friends and the guy she actually likes after he dropped from the sky, literally. That is far from "being treated like shit", and is not the conclusion just because she "didn't act like sunshine" around him. Neither is she aware he is dead at the moment, so her reaction towards that remains to be seen, but i fail to see why she should be bawling her eyes out either if her fiancee in name only happened to turn up dead. I certainly wouldn't, and wouldn't expect anyone else either. As of now you seem to be viewing her character through hate tinted glasses, so we have overblown statements like that. I can certainly see several why one would find her less than a perfect person or a friend, but the extent of what you implied has certainly been made up. It is fine to dislike a character. It is also fine to dislike someone a lot, but what you accused her of was actually not present in the show.
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:23   Link #1452
Foreshadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Whether he showed "courtesy" is debatable (He certainly wasn't considering how other people could react and whether it would cause Charlotte discomfort when her fiancee announces his existence by swirling down from the sky in a flamboyant fashion in a petal cloud .... in school). "All the behavior of Charlotte" regarding him constituted a total of two short scenes in the above environment, so i am not going to hold it against her if she didn't have him as her top concern.

Also, we have no way to say how well the two knew each other, or how close (or nonexistent) their relationship was - when you have matters that concern you and wish those discussed, you obviously go to people around whom you feel comfortable around and trust, not the other way around. And all that assuming she actually does hold any actual power, which i believe to be highly unlikely - so what i saw was a situation where she is uneasy about something, and wanted a friendly ear in order to ease some anxiety - not like anything actually depends on her decisions, does it ?
It's pretty obvious that He likes her or enjoys her company. The real issue I have with Charlotte is the way she handles him. When he first arrives the look on her face is obviously disappointment. Again, when he kisses her on the hand. Again, when he announces He's her fiance. Again when Sylvia brings it up with her. Those two definitely know each other. And judging by the way Haltmen interacts with her, at least on a decently friendly basis (or he's horribly dense). There's not much to analyze but off of the scenes that we have seen, she obviously doesn't quite see him in a positive light.
Spoiler for Her fiance:
What I would like to see is Charlotte handling him in a mature fashion telling him, I don't want to marry you. Instead of not wanting to bring up the subject in general, Or at least being open about it.
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:38   Link #1453
Skyfall
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Originally Posted by Foreshadow View Post
It's pretty obvious that He likes her or enjoys her company. The real issue I have with Charlotte is the way she handles him. When he first arrives the look on her face is obviously disappointment. Again, when he kisses her on the hand. Again, when he announces He's her fiance. Again when Sylvia brings it up with her. Those two definitely know each other. And judging by the way Haltmen interacts with her, at least on a decently friendly basis (or he's horribly dense). There's not much to analyze but off of the scenes that we have seen, she obviously doesn't quite see him in a positive light.
Spoiler for Her fiance:
What I would like to see is Charlotte handling him in a mature fashion telling him, I don't want to marry you. Instead of not wanting to bring up the subject in general, Or at least being open about it.
She obviously doesn't enjoy his presence - i never disputed that. I only commented because of the claim that "she treats him like shit", which she didn't. Obviously this is something that causes discomfort for her, so what would you suggest she does ? Obviously it was not her choice to make, and her situation might not be lenient enough to allow her a "i don't want to marry you" for political reasons - it is unlikely her circumstances around it are as lax as Teppei's. Hartman obviously has no problems with displaying the fiance part (though he is(was?) obviously a flashy person), whether because it benefits him politically (lets face it - the main reason said engagement existed) or whether he actually likes her, but neither is obviously the case for Charlotte. So what is she supposed to, then, in a situation where she probaly can't bring herself to smile, because for her there is nothing to be happy about ? She should have talked with Sylvia indeed, but on the other hand, where did Sylvia bring the issue up for the first time ? At the school's gate, in front of a student crowd. Is she really supposed to start laying her heart out in such a situation ? Why is she supposed to be overly courteous and all that, but no one else when it comes to considering how she feels about her circumstances?
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:45   Link #1454
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golthin View Post
Spoiler for one of the truth about anime and manga:
Spoiler for fiance:
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:50   Link #1455
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Spoiler for Reaction to episode 8:
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Old 2009-08-24, 13:50   Link #1456
Foreshadow
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She obviously doesn't enjoy his presence - i never disputed that. I only commented because of the claim that "she treats him like shit", which she didn't. Obviously this is something that causes discomfort for her, so what would you suggest she does ? Obviously it was not her choice to make, and her situation might not be lenient enough to allow her a "i don't want to marry you" for political reasons - it is unlikely her circumstances around it are as lax as Teppei's. She should have talked with Sylvia indeed, but on the other hand, where did Sylvia bring the issue up for the first time ? At the school's gate, in front of a student crowd. Is she really supposed to start laying her heart out in such a situation ? Why is she supposed to be overly courteous and all that, but no one else when it comes to considering how she feels?
Because even if your feeling bad, you shouldn't spread that to other people. It's just doing a disservice to society, or she could have a talk with the person she's having a problem with, which is the best way to solve a problem. Had she had the political reasons that she couldn't get out of her Engagement, She's just leading Teppei on then. Sylvia brings the situation up in front of everybody that was in the onsen promise. The scene also does not have anybody else remotely in the area. I also said that she doesn't treat him like shit, but she treats him not that great. All I'm saying is, I don't like how Charlotte is handling the situation, and I don't like how she's treating Haltmen, and from what we've seen, he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.

If She has to accept the situation, Then She has to Accept it, At least don't accept it kicking and screaming.

Anyway I love these kinds of Debates, This is why I watch these shows
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Old 2009-08-24, 14:05   Link #1457
Skyfall
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Because even if your feeling bad, you shouldn't spread that to other people. It's just doing a disservice to society, or she could have a talk with the person she's having a problem with, which is the best way to solve a problem. Had she had the political reasons that she couldn't get out of her Engagement, She's just leading Teppei on then. Sylvia brings the situation up in front of everybody that was in the onsen promise. The scene also does not have anybody else remotely in the area. I also said that she doesn't treat him like shit, but she treats him not that great. All I'm saying it, I don't like how Charlotte is handling the situation, and I don't like how she's treating Haltmen, and from what we've seen, he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.
It wasn't you who said she treated him like shit, so that comment was not aimed at you As for the rest, we will just have to agree to disagree i guess - personally i am no advocate of "suck it up", and wouldn't demand that of anyone because it makes life more comfortable for others. I am too much of an individualist for that. It is hard to say whether she had or hand't talked to Hartman, or whether they actually had the chance to talk, seeing we know literally nothing about the whole deal, but i don't support the notion that "he doesn't look like a bad guy" (For me, personally, his entrance didn't leave the best of first impressions though - he came off as a pompous flirt to me) is no reason for her to actually like him, or start acting as if she does. If Sylvia was seriously expecting a heart-to-heart with Charlotte in that situation, she horribly lacked tact as well, and is of no less at fault than Charlotte is for dodging the question. Charlotte might not be my favorite character in the show, and she is far from perfect, but i am stepping up here because i see her as being treated unfairly - i see a list of complaints and demands on what she should be doing and how she should be acting, but that list ends at her - apparently everyone else can do what they want, how they want it, and when they want it - and it is Charlotte that is supposed for some reason to answer those expectations of others as some saint. But not anyone else. What i am asking is - why ? She may have more focus in the show than the others, but that shouldn't be a reason to demand more of her as a person.
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Old 2009-08-24, 14:14   Link #1458
Foreshadow
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It wasn't you who said she treated him like shit, so that comment was not aimed at you As for the rest, we will just have to agree to disagree i guess - personally i am no advocate of "suck it up", and wouldn't demand that of anyone because it makes life more comfortable for others. I am too much of an individualist for that. It is hard to say whether she had or hand't talked to Hartman, or whether they actually had the chance to talk, seeing we know literally nothing about the whole deal, but i don't support the notion that "he doesn't look like a bad guy" (For me, personally, his entrance didn't leave the best of first impressions though - he came off as a pompous flirt to me) is no reason for her to actually like him, or start acting as if she does. If Sylvia was seriously expecting a heart-to-heart with Charlotte in that situation, she horribly lacked tact as well, and is of no less at fault than Charlotte is for dodging the question. Charlotte might not be my favorite character in the show, and she is far from perfect, but i am stepping up here because i see her as being treated unfairly - i see a list of complaints and demands on what she should be doing and how she should be acting, but that list ends at her - apparently everyone else can do what they want, how they want it, and when they want it - and it is Charlotte that is supposed for some reason to answer those expectations of others as some saint. But not anyone else. What i am asking is - why ? She may have more focus in the show than the others, but that shouldn't be a reason to demand more of her as a person.
Because She has more Focus, She has more choices, And Her choices (so far) Have drawn criticism. Plus, she has so much focus that, we can't do much character analysis on the other characters. At the same time we haven't seen much growth from her as a character. (which I am expecting)
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Old 2009-08-24, 14:37   Link #1459
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I am calm i am not angry or upset i just see it differently than you do. Im not saying she doesn't have the right to feel the way that she does and do i agree with you about the flamboyant entrance it was not the best way to approach her. Despite what you think i dont hate her i dont hate any of the characters and i still reserve final judgement for the end result. I wont write any character off till the end. Like i said i was not trying to ass. I conceed that "treated like shit" was probably a poor choice of words however my initial reaction to their short meeting was the same i did not like how she treated him, nor do i like how she handles a lot of situation but i dont hate her i just disapprove of how she does somethings. We can just agree to disagree. There are points about her that i like i just dont like her decision making skills sometimes.Lets just agree with disagree I just hope for a decent end
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Old 2009-08-24, 15:01   Link #1460
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Listen, this show is just censored oppai anime.

Queens blade etc... don't expect diddly squat.
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