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Old 2012-02-27, 23:58   Link #1181
00Coyote
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Well, can't wait for Sailing 9. It'll be interesting to see how Bentenmaru goes up against that task force. It's not like this is Battlestations: Pacific, where a DD could solo BBs thanks to torps and wild manuvering ^^;;
A little task force called 'Taffy 3' would like to have words with you about wild maneuvering and battleships
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Old 2012-02-28, 00:28   Link #1182
Ithekro
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That would be more psycological warfare on Taffy 3's part and that the Japanese Admiral had been fighting one thing after another for a while. Basically the Japanese moral broke. They had lost Battleship Musashi earlier to aircraft and other ships to submarines. Now this American task force was CHARGING the fleet. No way those could be destroyers and escort carriers...the Americans aren't suppose to have that kind of spirit. They must be cruisers and fleet carriers...thus the large number of aircraft attacking and the warships daring to close on Battleship Yamato. Basically the Americans desperation freaked the Japanese out.

Though it is also this battle that Yamato may have scored the longest ranged ship to ship gunnery hit in world history...at around 31,000 yards against an escort carrier.


Marika has a huge advantage in this fight. She has a ship with a huge reputation (the Bentenmaru is 100 or more years old and still a viable warship that can believeable outmatch three modern escorts). Unlike USS Constitution which would in no way would be considered a viable warship around 1900 against any modern naval vessel. Marika also has a Royal Princess onboard. That can carry weight. She also has a potental backup. last we saw Chiaki she was talking to her father over the phone when something had come up. Chiaki's ship could also be in the area, and even if this task force can counter one Privateer Battleship, it cannot counter two.
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Old 2012-02-28, 01:49   Link #1183
00Coyote
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That would be more psycological warfare on Taffy 3's part and that the Japanese Admiral had been fighting one thing after another for a while. Basically the Japanese moral broke. They had lost Battleship Musashi earlier to aircraft and other ships to submarines. Now this American task force was CHARGING the fleet. No way those could be destroyers and escort carriers...the Americans aren't suppose to have that kind of spirit. They must be cruisers and fleet carriers...thus the large number of aircraft attacking and the warships daring to close on Battleship Yamato. Basically the Americans desperation freaked the Japanese out.
Leyte Gulf was not kind to the Japanese Navy. Even with the American's doing their best to setup a disaster (Hasley taking the bait, hook line and sinker) Kurita's indecision really blew a chance to salvage some form of success for Sho-Go 1
Quote:
Though it is also this battle that Yamato may have scored the longest ranged ship to ship gunnery hit in world history...at around 31,000 yards against an escort carrier.
And probably with an AP shell. Like a bullet through a covered wagon. For all the power and importance that was placed on the Yamato, it wasn't all that effective off Samar. Same thing can be said for the Iowa class. Those two classes of ships missed the war they were designed to fight, by about 30 years.

But enough blue water navy, lets talk SPACE PIRATES.
Quote:
Marika has a huge advantage in this fight. She has a ship with a huge reputation (the Bentenmaru is 100 or more years old and still a viable warship that can believeable outmatch three modern escorts). Unlike USS Constitution which would in no way would be considered a viable warship around 1900 against any modern naval vessel. Marika also has a Royal Princess onboard. That can carry weight. She also has a potental backup. last we saw Chiaki she was talking to her father over the phone when something had come up. Chiaki's ship could also be in the area, and even if this task force can counter one Privateer Battleship, it cannot counter two.
I'm really curious what the capabilities of the Bentenmaru are. Electronic, and psychological warfare aside, how tough of a nut is this ship? I'm assuming she has decent armor, but probably relies on agility for primary defense. On offense I'd guess they'd go with a few big guns, as opposed to many small ones, dress to impress so to speak. In terms of size, I'll say she is a medium sized cruiser. She doesn't seem to have the heft of a battleship, but she is not a small ship. For a random guess on crew, 8 (named) bridge crew, 15-16 unnamed officers and 120 salty space dogs.
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Old 2012-02-28, 02:00   Link #1184
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That would be more psycological warfare on Taffy 3's part and that the Japanese Admiral had been fighting one thing after another for a while. Basically the Japanese moral broke. They had lost Battleship Musashi earlier to aircraft and other ships to submarines. Now this American task force was CHARGING the fleet. No way those could be destroyers and escort carriers...the Americans aren't suppose to have that kind of spirit. They must be cruisers and fleet carriers...thus the large number of aircraft attacking and the warships daring to close on Battleship Yamato. Basically the Americans desperation freaked the Japanese out.

Though it is also this battle that Yamato may have scored the longest ranged ship to ship gunnery hit in world history...at around 31,000 yards against an escort carrier.


Marika has a huge advantage in this fight. She has a ship with a huge reputation (the Bentenmaru is 100 or more years old and still a viable warship that can believeable outmatch three modern escorts). Unlike USS Constitution which would in no way would be considered a viable warship around 1900 against any modern naval vessel. Marika also has a Royal Princess onboard. That can carry weight. She also has a potental backup. last we saw Chiaki she was talking to her father over the phone when something had come up. Chiaki's ship could also be in the area, and even if this task force can counter one Privateer Battleship, it cannot counter two.
Wasn't that hit from Chokai rather than Yamato?

The fact that Serenity ships are fighting their own suggests its rather likely their government has lost control. So the princess's words may not carry any weight
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Old 2012-02-28, 02:28   Link #1185
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The fact that Serenity ships are fighting their own suggests its rather likely their government has lost control. So the princess's words may not carry any weight
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how badly things have split in their government. Actively trying to kill a member of the royal family is a rather significant point of no return, and they may not be willing to cross that line just yet.

Quote:
I'm really curious what the capabilities of the Bentenmaru are. Electronic, and psychological warfare aside, how tough of a nut is this ship? I'm assuming she has decent armor, but probably relies on agility for primary defense. On offense I'd guess they'd go with a few big guns, as opposed to many small ones, dress to impress so to speak. In terms of size, I'll say she is a medium sized cruiser. She doesn't seem to have the heft of a battleship, but she is not a small ship. For a random guess on crew, 8 (named) bridge crew, 15-16 unnamed officers and 120 salty space dogs.
Just given by how thoroughly the crew believed they outmatched a trio of destroyers, I have the impression that Bentenmaru has at least the firepower of a battleship (in terms of overall damage-output, not in number of guns) combined with the maneuverability of a cruiser. Admittedly, that's a lot to infer from relatively little information. But that's the feeling I have. If the enemy were just the four Corbacks, Bentenmaru would be perfectly capable of handling it, or if it was just the Talbot it would be a relatively even match (with speed and agility favoring Bentenmaru, and heavier armor and shields favoring the Talbot), but with them combined it becomes a riskier proposition.
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Old 2012-02-28, 02:31   Link #1186
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Historians are still working on it (it is harder to do damage reports after the ship is sunk, but not impossible). Chokai's guns can't shoot that far away. It did hit closer in, but their is some evidence that Yamato herself scored a hit as well at range. It would have only been a 18.1" hole going from the deck and though the hull (as it would not have exploded until after it was through the ship and in the water)...but it would be a hit....and much farther than that of Warspite's record hit.

Kurita would have lost more ships and still probably not accomplished his mission if he continued on. Not only would be be subject to more air attack, but part of Oldendorf's battleship fleet was on the way (as was Halsey's but he'd still arrive late), and there were something like 60 destroyers, destroyer escorts and at least one cruiser with the transports. While Yamato is proof against five inch guns...it is not proof against working 21" torpedoes. Especially not over a hundred of them.



The Bentenmaru is shown to have three triple turrets, all forward mounted. It is hard to gauge scale at this point but when the Yacht Club was being shadowed, Marika and Chiaki spotted a sensor ghost that read as a battleship. That battleship had a similar configuration as the Bentenmaru. Why Privateers would have a battleship I don't know. It may be a cruiser style ship. It might have large capital scale guns. Depends on just how it became a privateer's ship. The background history we got this episode showed what looked like the Local's navy during the war before they issued Letters of Marque. They look similar to the Bentenmaru in style. The real question would be, what was the Bentenmaru before the war? If she was a traditional Japanese "Maru" , she was a frieghter of some kind. But privateers come in a wide selection of types and origins in real history. Some are coverted freighters or liners. Other are purpose build as warships, just under "civilian" control. It would be the case if the government could not afford to pay to build warships fast enough to send them into the war, but private individuals could afford it, and with a Letter of Marque, make back the money via raiding enemy shipping. Also these ships could have been built for private individuals or companies in foreign ports only to be armed as privateers later (the Confederates did something like this during the Civil War).

It also depends on how "easy" it is to adapt a spaceframe for military grade hardware and armor/shielding. It is hard to tell if the Bentenmaru is a purpose built warship or a converted civilian ship...because we don't know the universe all that well.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-02-28 at 02:42.
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Old 2012-02-28, 04:44   Link #1187
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I'm guessing something like a EVE-type battlecruiser. If the Corback is a frigate, and the larger ship class whose name escapes me again a destroyer, then the Ben10maru is 2 classes above the destroyer. (Frigate-->Destroyer-->Cruiser-->Battlecruiser-->Battleship)

Given its trailer performance of armor tanking and flying about, I'd say the Ben10maru has a mix of traits both Odette II and something smaller, hence my guess of battlecruiser.
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Old 2012-02-28, 05:42   Link #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Historians are still working on it (it is harder to do damage reports after the ship is sunk, but not impossible). Chokai's guns can't shoot that far away. It did hit closer in, but their is some evidence that Yamato herself scored a hit as well at range. It would have only been a 18.1" hole going from the deck and though the hull (as it would not have exploded until after it was through the ship and in the water)...but it would be a hit....and much farther than that of Warspite's record hit.

Kurita would have lost more ships and still probably not accomplished his mission if he continued on. Not only would be be subject to more air attack, but part of Oldendorf's battleship fleet was on the way (as was Halsey's but he'd still arrive late), and there were something like 60 destroyers, destroyer escorts and at least one cruiser with the transports. While Yamato is proof against five inch guns...it is not proof against working 21" torpedoes. Especially not over a hundred of them.



The Bentenmaru is shown to have three triple turrets, all forward mounted. It is hard to gauge scale at this point but when the Yacht Club was being shadowed, Marika and Chiaki spotted a sensor ghost that read as a battleship. That battleship had a similar configuration as the Bentenmaru. Why Privateers would have a battleship I don't know. It may be a cruiser style ship. It might have large capital scale guns. Depends on just how it became a privateer's ship. The background history we got this episode showed what looked like the Local's navy during the war before they issued Letters of Marque. They look similar to the Bentenmaru in style. The real question would be, what was the Bentenmaru before the war? If she was a traditional Japanese "Maru" , she was a frieghter of some kind. But privateers come in a wide selection of types and origins in real history. Some are coverted freighters or liners. Other are purpose build as warships, just under "civilian" control. It would be the case if the government could not afford to pay to build warships fast enough to send them into the war, but private individuals could afford it, and with a Letter of Marque, make back the money via raiding enemy shipping. Also these ships could have been built for private individuals or companies in foreign ports only to be armed as privateers later (the Confederates did something like this during the Civil War).

It also depends on how "easy" it is to adapt a spaceframe for military grade hardware and armor/shielding. It is hard to tell if the Bentenmaru is a purpose built warship or a converted civilian ship...because we don't know the universe all that well.
Should have just focused on Long Lances rather than gunnery. By the 1940s the torpedo was the real killer anyway. The Japanese battle line would really have been best employed at Guadalcanal anyway rather than Leyte, with their carrier fleet essentially non-existent.


Bentenmaru's name suggests a civilian merchant ship though....so I'd say a heavily beefed up raider ship, something like a heavy cruiser rather than a full blown battle wagon.

Haven't actually seen any capital ships yet so far....
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Old 2012-02-28, 07:01   Link #1189
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I'm pretty sure Bentenmaru was named after a famous person, so doesn't that mean its a fighting vessel rather than a rigged cargo-hauler?
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Old 2012-02-28, 07:19   Link #1190
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I'm pretty sure Bentenmaru was named after a famous person, so doesn't that mean its a fighting vessel rather than a rigged cargo-hauler?
The maru suffix though....it's usually attached to merchant shipping
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:25   Link #1191
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Hmm... Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe all pirate ships are just named starting with B. In that case, the Bentenmaru could've been anything.

That said, I really don't think a rocket and keel surrounded on all sides by pods is the most efficient design in cargo-hauling. How do you unload? That telescoping airlock is kinda small.
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:26   Link #1192
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The Bentenmaru is shown to have three triple turrets, all forward mounted. It is hard to gauge scale at this point but when the Yacht Club was being shadowed, Marika and Chiaki spotted a sensor ghost that read as a battleship.
Wasn't the ghost battleship the probe from the Lightning 11 screwing with the girl's sensors? They were being shadowed by the Lightning 11, Benternmaru and Barbarrosa, and at the start they detected all 3 briefly, but afterwards the 3 did a better job of hiding themselves. They detected the ghost battleship latter, but identified it as a probe acting as a decoy. Lynn later used the probe as one of her EW attack points.
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:53   Link #1193
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OH MY GOD...IT'S SO RIDICULOUS MY COMP CRASHED LOADING IT
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Old 2012-02-28, 10:49   Link #1194
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Hmm... Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe all pirate ships are just named starting with B. In that case, the Bentenmaru could've been anything.

That said, I really don't think a rocket and keel surrounded on all sides by pods is the most efficient design in cargo-hauling. How do you unload? That telescoping airlock is kinda small.
Actually, the original name for the Odette II is Hakuchou which means "swan". And of course, Odette was the name of the White Swan in Swan Lake. Also interesting to note, there was a 1942 swashbuckling film called The Black Swan.

So not all privateer ships started with the letter B.
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Old 2012-02-28, 10:52   Link #1195
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@Cosmic: Of late, Momoclo is a potent idol team and managed by a guy who loves pro-wrestling, with steel balls of daring to challenge even AKB48 (and at their home turf).

...And they recently scored an award:
http://www.tokyohive.com/2012/02/mom...cd-shop-award/
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Old 2012-02-28, 11:44   Link #1196
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i believe cars in the future will have maybe 10x more power, cant imagine when u go with max speed in an open cover car...

things look serious at the end, finally

and that Mugen no Ai PV is the most creative one i have seen this year
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Old 2012-02-28, 12:05   Link #1197
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It is hard to tell if the Bentenmaru is a purpose built warship or a converted civilian ship...because we don't know the universe all that well.
Spoiler:


Regarding ep 8, some differences from the novel
Spoiler:
From Miniskirt Space Pirates wiki, regarding the Privateer License [link]
Spoiler:

Keep in mind that all of the above were abridged version of the novels, and they all are my take and my unofficial translation. . There's a lot more talking and describing that happened in the novel

From the official twitter. it looks like in EP9, Black Holy will be used as guest ED [source].
Also, to be bundled with BD Vol 2 Limited Edition First Printing (Chiaki will be the cover girl). On sale April 11th, the same date as Black Holy.
Spoiler:

I uhh.....it's not kawaii at all >.> . Looking at amazon jp , the first Grafig was Hatsune Miku [link], and the cost is about the same as a regular LN

Edit: Okay. Who the hell draws Marika for Nyantype?
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-02-28 at 21:32. Reason: Marika's arms, not chest :P. How could I be so perverted :P. And some pages number added
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Old 2012-02-28, 12:16   Link #1198
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I kinda wish the Mugen no Ai PV had Marty Friedman doing the Guaitar solo. Hopefully someone might post the video of him performing with the Momoiro Clover Z at their concert.
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Old 2012-02-28, 13:00   Link #1199
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@justpassingby: Thank you for the informative post. This steps things up a bit in terms of info.
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Old 2012-02-28, 13:13   Link #1200
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Well, that pretty much tears it. Bentenmaru was a warship. Not a battleship, but still formatible. Plus having that large of a reputation can influence your enemies.


While the sensor shadow was just a probe from the Lightning 11, the data they got from it was from an old battleship. The image that was displayed for us made it look similar to the Bentenmaru. Maybe closer to those other ships seen in the history lesson in this most recent episode.
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