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Old 2012-04-07, 18:50   Link #1761
Random Wanderer
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Spoiler for Episode 14:

Quote:
I hope she hires Jenny,there's no reason why she can't hire her.
Honestly, I think Jenny's command personality would overpower Marika's in most situations. That's fine for the yacht club, but on the Bentenmaru Marika has to be the voice of authority. Not that Marika's a bad captain: we've already seen that she can do what she needs to do perfectly well when it needs doing. But Jenny has an air of authority that Marika lacks, and is similarly competent in most situations. Just by being there, people would unconsciously be more likely to look to her for commands than to Marika. Without her there, there's no question that Marika's the captain.

So, as sad as it makes me, I think this adventure would be better off without Jenny joining the crew. ...And trust me, that makes me quite sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Coyote View Post
I can just see the cruise application submitted to the Academy:

The Space Yacht next practice cruise will be aboard the (in)famous Pirate Ship Bentenmaru, where we will learn the finer points of electronic warfare, firing cruiser class starship weaponry, and the planning, formation and execution of a ship raiding party, where we will pillage, plunder and loot rich space travelers for profit, amusement and legalized insurance fraud.
All important life-skills! It's good that the clubs can help give their students a well-rounded education like that.
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Old 2012-04-07, 19:45   Link #1762
Theo
Morningstar is Burning...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Coyote View Post
My conspiracy senses are tingling...
Spoiler for evil cat-monkey machination:
Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those interesting things that will fall to the wayside without any elaboration? Like Marika's hubris seen in Episode 7 or the Independence War. I'm still worried the show won't take the opportunity to rein in all the interesting aspects of this world, like the electronic warfare, ship beam cannon combat, ship-to-ship boarding, trust, Marika's alliances earned with her swag...and create a climactic showdown of a season finale that rivals Episode 5's tension levels.
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Old 2012-04-07, 20:31   Link #1763
Anh_Minh
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I wonder why she didn't go straight to the yacht club? Especially for a short term job like that. (She just has to pick an easy one.)
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:05   Link #1764
justpassingby
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^ Because
- There is a possibility that Bentenmaru will caught in a real battle, and Marika don't want her friends to get involved
Spoiler:
- Marika trusted her mother the most.
And
Spoiler for Some other parts from the novel:
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-04-08 at 00:53.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:22   Link #1765
Theo
Morningstar is Burning...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
^ Because
- There is a possibility that Bentenmaru will caught in real battle, and Marika don't want her friends to get involved
True, but the episode portrayed it like she had no clue until Chiaki pointed it out. It's not a "Let's leave my friends as a last resort", but more of a "Durr, why didn't I think of that?!"

This is all a bit jarring as Marika spent the last episode...recruiting people.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:29   Link #1766
pezzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Spoiler for Episode 14:


Honestly, I think Jenny's command personality would overpower Marika's in most situations. That's fine for the yacht club, but on the Bentenmaru Marika has to be the voice of authority. Not that Marika's a bad captain: we've already seen that she can do what she needs to do perfectly well when it needs doing. But Jenny has an air of authority that Marika lacks, and is similarly competent in most situations. Just by being there, people would unconsciously be more likely to look to her for commands than to Marika. Without her there, there's no question that Marika's the captain.

So, as sad as it makes me, I think this adventure would be better off without Jenny joining the crew. ...And trust me, that makes me quite sad.


All important life-skills! It's good that the clubs can help give their students a well-rounded education like that.
I agree that Jenny isn't really necessary for this mission, but I disagree that her presence would overpower Marika's.

Most of this goes back to the club voyage aboard the Odette II. Jenny was in command, and was obviously very good at it, but for the dangerous mission, she was still executing Marika's plan. Not only that, but almost every single one of Jenny's orders were all on Marika's suggestions. When Marika wanted to change the flight plan, the flight plan got changed. When Marika said to seal the bulkheads, Jenny ordered the bulkheads sealed. When the ship was under fire, even Jenny lost her cool and had a hint of panic in her voice, and it was Marika that saved the ship while under pressure.

Now keep in mind that something like 9 months has passed since that voyage. Marika now has 9 months of experience sitting in the captain's chair aboard the Bentenmaru. She is also the only person aboard (aside from Chiaki) who has experience in committing piracy.

Even if Jenny were aboard, there is no doubt in my mind that as long as they were aboard the Bentenmaru, Marika would be unquestionably in command. Jenny may challenge her elsewhere like aboard the Odette II on a club voyage (and even then Marika ended up displaying more competence under pressure), or something more classy, but the Bentenmaru is Marika's home territory and I think even the club members would see that.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:38   Link #1767
00Coyote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo View Post
Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those interesting things that will fall to the wayside without any elaboration? Like Marika's hubris seen in Episode 7 or the Independence War. I'm still worried the show won't take the opportunity to rein in all the interesting aspects of this world, like the electronic warfare, ship beam cannon combat, ship-to-ship boarding, trust, Marika's alliances earned with her swag...and create a climactic showdown of a season finale that rivals Episode 5's tension levels.
Hubris isn't a word I associate with Marika at all. She is decisive when called upon, and sees those decisions through with confidence, but other than those times she is really self-depreciating. It's probably her biggest flaw as a captain, she doesn't think of herself as special, or different. So I'm curious what you mean by Marika's hubris in ep 7.

As for the war of independence, ew, weapons and such, I'd love for them to expand on them because I find it very interesting, but all those small, neat details that they throw in are nothing but world building. It adds texture, and spice to the story bu will never be the subject of this story, such is the constraint of an animated work.

A detail that I hope we get more info on is the Non Aggression Pact that surrounds Marika. It's been hinted many times that some orginization(s) is protecting her. The Barbarossa, Chiaki and her dad seem to know a good deal about what Marika and the Bentenmaru are doing. Even Jenny and Lynn know more about Marika's circumstances than she does. People are protecting her, yet everyone 'in the know' seem to be actively keeping Marika in the dark.

My guess is it's a cooperation between the insurance company, the remaining pirates with a Letter of Marquee, and certain elements within the Morningstar government. Those three would have the power and influence to enforce such a Non Aggression Pact. It was probably set up by Marika's father, but also is a matter of convenience for the three groups. The pirates get to help preserve their tenuous legal status, the government keeps an extra-legal method for resolving politically undesirable situations, and the insurance company continues to rake in massive cash from all sides.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:42   Link #1768
justpassingby
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Ah, for those wondering,
Spoiler for more from the novel:
__________________
一生 忘れられないよ ずっとずっと 大事な贈り物
一生 忘れられないよ きっときっと こいつは宝物

Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-04-07 at 22:08.
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Old 2012-04-07, 21:56   Link #1769
Random Wanderer
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Quote:
I agree that Jenny isn't really necessary for this mission, but I disagree that her presence would overpower Marika's.

Most of this goes back to the club voyage aboard the Odette II. Jenny was in command, and was obviously very good at it, but for the dangerous mission, she was still executing Marika's plan. Not only that, but almost every single one of Jenny's orders were all on Marika's suggestions. When Marika wanted to change the flight plan, the flight plan got changed. When Marika said to seal the bulkheads, Jenny ordered the bulkheads sealed. When the ship was under fire, even Jenny lost her cool and had a hint of panic in her voice, and it was Marika that saved the ship while under pressure.

Now keep in mind that something like 9 months has passed since that voyage. Marika now has 9 months of experience sitting in the captain's chair aboard the Bentenmaru. She is also the only person aboard (aside from Chiaki) who has experience in committing piracy.

Even if Jenny were aboard, there is no doubt in my mind that as long as they were aboard the Bentenmaru, Marika would be unquestionably in command. Jenny may challenge her elsewhere like aboard the Odette II on a club voyage (and even then Marika ended up displaying more competence under pressure), or something more classy, but the Bentenmaru is Marika's home territory and I think even the club members would see that.
While it's true that Marika's plans were followed aboard the Odette, every one of them was presented not as a leader, but as a tactical officer giving advice to the captain. And in several cases Jenny came across as having considered many of Marika's points already herself, merely allowing Marika to present them and work through them for the sake of gaining the experience of doing so.

Now it's true that Jenny wasn't perfect: when the ship was under fire she was as uncertain about what to do as the rest of them. That's why I said "similarly competent in most situations." Marika keeps her head cooler while under fire. But just look at the way Marika handles the yacht club vs how Jenny has handled them in the past. Marika gets overwhelmed by their enthusiasm, and lets them sweep her along with them into doing something she isn't sure is a good idea. Jenny commanded the yacht club. She was in charge, and she presented a face of calm certainty and competence except for the one time when they were getting shot at (which is quite excusable, in my mind).

It's not that Marika can't lead, because she can. She can even be quite good at it. But Jenny has a leader's personality; a command presence that Marika does not have. It is Jenny's nature to be in charge, and the club members look to her for leadership unconsciously. The same is simply not true of Marika. If Jenny isn't there, that's not a problem because everyone knows Marika is the captain and that she's good at her job. But if Jenny is there, the unconscious comparison people would perform would subtly undermine Marika's authority. Not on purpose; I'm quite certain that Jenny would never deliberately challenge Marika's authority, and that the club members wouldn't even realize they were thinking that way; but I do believe that it would happen anyway.
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Old 2012-04-07, 23:38   Link #1770
MeisterBabylon
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In Trek history, there has been precedents where there are several captains on the same ship... But alas that "honor" seems to belong solely to the USS Excelsior, what with Scott and Sulu taking turns screwing with Style's plumbing- I mean transwarp drive...
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Old 2012-04-08, 00:02   Link #1771
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
In Trek history, there has been precedents where there are several captains on the same ship... But alas that "honor" seems to belong solely to the USS Excelsior, what with Scott and Sulu taking turns screwing with Style's plumbing- I mean transwarp drive...
Sulu wasn't a captain yet then. Scotty is.

Heck the Enterprise had three captain of rank. One of which was demoted from admiral.
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Old 2012-04-08, 00:28   Link #1772
TurkeyPotPie
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Did anyone feel the animation quality took a dive in the second half of episode 14? Lot of off model characters and general sketchiness. This is the first time it's really been noticeable for me, I hope it's isolated to this episode.
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Old 2012-04-08, 01:25   Link #1773
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Happens sometimes, especially when the subcontractor cuts corners almost visibly.

Otherwise, this episode was enjoyable, with Marika trying to learn the business portion of her privateering career.
Spoiler for Also...:
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Old 2012-04-08, 01:47   Link #1774
Ithekro
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Given the discription of Jenny a few posts ago, she's almost perfect Executive Officer material. She will had out the Captain's orders perfectly. She will give an air of command while following orders. And she will give the Captain advise if the Captain need it. Perfect for a young captain.
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:19   Link #1775
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Given the discription of Jenny a few posts ago, she's almost perfect Executive Officer material. She will had out the Captain's orders perfectly. She will give an air of command while following orders. And she will give the Captain advise if the Captain need it. Perfect for a young captain.
The Bentenmaru, having a pretty small crew, doesn't really need an Executive Officer. Besides, Jenny is captain material herself IMO. It's not about issuing orders; she's just the sort of person born to lead, I think.
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:21   Link #1776
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Ah, for those wondering,
Spoiler for more from the novel:
I wonder what good isolating Schnitzer would do....
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Old 2012-04-08, 04:04   Link #1777
Anh_Minh
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Keep him from passing his microbes.
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:35   Link #1778
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The Bentenmaru, having a pretty small crew, doesn't really need an Executive Officer. Besides, Jenny is captain material herself IMO. It's not about issuing orders; she's just the sort of person born to lead, I think.
Jenny's kind of like Riker; given time, she too will be a great captain. Though like Riker... we might have to wait a while before she does.



In other news, given the recent events and the generous time skips, I've decided that I'd probably have to rework the last 2 chapters of Audacious Space Traders. I forgot that I should do things a bit more Trek style, and that should include a "link" to the previous/current series.

So... Doolittle is going to play a much larger part in this story. Just sayin'
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Old 2012-04-08, 06:44   Link #1779
Kanon
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That was a very entertaining episode. I'm glad Gruelle stuck around, she's bringing a lot to the show. I love her sense of disguise. Not very effective maybe, but classy for sure. These suits looked good.

Like others, I was flabbergasted Marika didn't think about recruiting the members of the Yatch club. The Yatch club was such an obvious choice in this case. They can fly a ship and they're all people Marika can trust. She can't ask for a better crew than this one.

Chiaki's dad is pretty cool. Looks like his daughter didn't inherit her tsundere personality from him. Marika is lucky to have such great allies.

No more Jenny in the eyecatch... orz. Ah well, I'm sure she'll still come back at some point anyway.

PS: loved how one of the ships was named Queen Emeraldas

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Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Ah, for those wondering,
Spoiler for more from the novel:
I was meaning to ask about that. Thanks for the info.
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Old 2012-04-08, 07:03   Link #1780
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Those weird cats were pretty cute, but the crew sure wasn't happy about getting sick.
Marika crewless... LOL
Getting new crew was pretty hard work.
Chiaki's dad seems like an interesting person.
The replacement crew was fired up to say the least.
Wonder how it's all gonna turn out...
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