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Old 2009-12-03, 15:23   Link #4061
Marion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
I... I'm sorry? I'm just trying to make some speculations; I don't have much memories of the reds.
Jan Poo was quoting WorkWorkWork not you

Your theory sounds pretty good to me, although then you have to wonder who delivered the letter. Would Maria really trust them to be an ambassador for Beato?
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:26   Link #4062
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Your theory sounds pretty good to me, although then you have to wonder who delivered the letter. Would Maria really trust them to be an ambassador for Beato?
Hmm... with Maria's odd laughs and strong beliefs of the cults, I suppose if the handwriting was similar to the ones in her diary, she would probably believe it. There's no red that Beato has went in front of Maria and gave her the letter directly. Woo! My first colouring.

Also, does anyone understand the Red Truths regarding the end of Ep. 4? It caught me off.
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:28   Link #4063
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Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
I... I'm sorry? I'm just trying to make some speculations; I don't have much memories of the reds.
Relax. I don't think that response was directed at you.

As for your question, I don't think there is any way to confirm what maria said to be true except maybe in Episode 2 when Rosa claimed to have been there when it happened.
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:34   Link #4064
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Dude you are more delusional than Maria. That red sentence was stated by Beatrice and it was cut before she could finish it. If she could state in red something that was told to her by Maria only because Maria believed so, why she was only able to state the part that Sakutaro was made by Rosa but not that it was the only one in the world?
Well, just to cover all the options here... Beato never gets around to saying the subject in that sentence, so maybe the whole thing doesn't count. The game hasn't been particularly clear about where the red text has to cut off when you say something wrong (in fact, from Battler's case, it looks like it can move around a bit).

Like saying: "The only person who ever blew up the moon is the king of France" or something like that. It doesn't mean that someone has blown up the moon (maybe)
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:36   Link #4065
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Originally Posted by Graskell View Post
Relax. I don't think that response was directed at you.

As for your question, I don't think there is any way to confirm what maria said to be true except maybe in Episode 2 when Rosa claimed to have been there when it happened.
Alrighty. Well, I'm assuming Rosa is the most suspicious of that episode. I'm still wondering with the number of people on the island. Especially with the different status ranks of Furniture. Was there a reason why they were called furniture and not merely servants? Ryu would be due for major trolling ...
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:39   Link #4066
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Well, just to cover all the options here... Beato never gets around to saying the subject in that sentence, so maybe the whole thing doesn't count. The game hasn't been particularly clear about where the red text has to cut off when you say something wrong (in fact, from Battler's case, it looks like it can move around a bit).

Like saying: "The only person who ever blew up the moon is the king of France" or something like that. It doesn't mean that someone has blown up the moon (maybe)
It is red, so it must be true!

I personally don't think that red statements that gets cut off still count as truth... but who really knows with Ryukishi?
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:45   Link #4067
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Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
Hmm... with Maria's odd laughs and strong beliefs of the cults, I suppose if the handwriting was similar to the ones in her diary, she would probably believe it. There's no red that Beato has went in front of Maria and gave her the letter directly. Woo! My first colouring.

Also, does anyone understand the Red Truths regarding the end of Ep. 4? It caught me off.
Whole thing with EP 4 is that it probably has the least amount of red, besides EP 1 which had no red. Most of the time Beato didn't even fight back against Battler's blue, since she decided it was worthless to even fight anymore for her happy ending.

The main reds are:

1) Kinzo is always dead and there are no more than 17 people on the island. Applies to all games. Pretty straight forward.
2) No one could mistake Kinzo for someone else and all the adults at the evening talks recognized Kinzo. So "Kinzo" might be a title for the family head to take, since he was already dead and no one can successfully disguise as him.
3) The final riddle, which is the hardest red truth to figure out imo. Beatrice basically says no one else is on the island but Battler. But she isn't Battler. But she will kill him now. So we know Beatrice isn't a person and Battler didn't commit suicide (I am not you). Which leads to the question what caused Battler to die.

There were some other red truths from Lambda too, but those were mostly just crushing Battler's ridiculous theories.
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Old 2009-12-03, 15:49   Link #4068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Well, just to cover all the options here... Beato never gets around to saying the subject in that sentence, so maybe the whole thing doesn't count. The game hasn't been particularly clear about where the red text has to cut off when you say something wrong (in fact, from Battler's case, it looks like it can move around a bit).

Like saying: "The only person who ever blew up the moon is the king of France" or something like that. It doesn't mean that someone has blown up the moon (maybe)
Well that's not exactly the same thing. In this case the sentence isn't even finished, but if it was

"the King of France was a pervert and blew up the moon"

While he certainly didn't blew up the moon the fact that he was a pervert can be considered confirmed. (No offense intended to any king of france).
I think this can be stated with a pretty high certainty from what we see from Battler while trying to assert that he was born from Asumu, he only started to have problem when he was saying the wrong word but not the whole sentence. Red is effective until the point it is interrupted.
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Old 2009-12-03, 16:02   Link #4069
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well that's not exactly the same thing. In this case the sentence isn't even finished, but if it was

"the King of France was a pervert and blew up the moon"

While he certainly didn't blew up the moon the fact that he was a pervert can be considered confirmed. (No offense intended to any king of france).
I think this can be stated with a pretty high certainty from what we see from Battler while trying to assert that he was born from Asumu, he only started to have problem when he was saying the wrong word but not the whole sentence. Red is effective until the point it is interrupted.
For the first part, you have to go straight to the Japanese because our translation doesn't cover it: 楼座が娘の誕生日のために作った、世界でたった一つの____. In English, this is similar to saying 'The ___ that Rosa made for her daughter's birthday, and the only one in the world'. In other words, even if you do believe that partial reds count literally, this line only means that Rosa once made Maria something for her birthday...but it could be any birthday and any thing. You could also argue that missing the です counts as lacking an 'is', like 'Sakutaro **** the present'

I'm not saying I'm convinced this is the case, but I think it's possible.

For your second bit, that's just not true: 俺は右代 and 俺は、右代宮 aren't even close to the 生まれた of "俺は、右代宮明日夢から生まれた。"
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Old 2009-12-03, 16:20   Link #4070
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Japanese is a language basing heavily on context. In norml conversion, the subjects, if it should be understood by both senders and receivers, then there is no need to mention the subject. Sometimes even the object cannot be dropped.

That's why people could interpret so many things basing on a subject-less red texts, most likely by arguing the subject not being the suggested from the dialogues, and proceed to add the made-up subject to support their own theories.

If one just focus on red text itself and omit the context, then I am afraid many theories would not be even close to what Ryukishi07's "Answer" is.

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Old 2009-12-03, 18:04   Link #4071
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What I meant is that even if Battler is not in any way shape or form blood-related to Ange, she still considers him her big brother, and he believes that as well, hence him being able to say that in red. Asumu was his mother, he just wasn't born from her.

Similarly, even if Rosa just bought Sakutarou and lied to Maria's face, Maria deluded herself into thinking he was a unique item.
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Old 2009-12-03, 18:07   Link #4072
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What I meant is that even if Battler is not in any way shape or form blood-related to Ange, she still considers him her big brother, and he believes that as well, hence him being able to say that in red. Asumu was his mother, he just wasn't born from her.
Wrong! Ange and Battler are related by blood!! Battler is Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandson and so still Rudolph's son!! And do you know who ANge's father is? Yup it's Rudolph straight up yoour facts.
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Old 2009-12-03, 18:11   Link #4073
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Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Wrong! Ange and Battler are related by blood!! Battler is Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandson and so still Rudolph's son!! And do you know who ANge's father is? Yup it's Rudolph straight up yoour facts.
...I'm sorry, but you need to practice what you preach.

It has never been said that Battler is Rudolf's son. ANGE proposed that in blue, and Beato simply did not counter it. Was it because she felt sorry for Battler? Did she just want to die, seeing as how she lost MARIA?

Heck,

Spoiler for EP5:
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Old 2009-12-03, 18:12   Link #4074
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Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Wrong! Ange and Battler are related by blood!! Battler is Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandson and so still Rudolph's son!! And do you know who ANge's father is? Yup it's Rudolph straight up yoour facts.
In episode 4 Ange said, "For example, what is Ushiromiya Ange to you? You might not share the same blood, but she's still your little sister, right?". Then Battler said, "Even though we don't share the same blood, Ange is my little sister. Ange is, ...my little sister."

That said, I agree that Ange is probably blood related to Battler.
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Old 2009-12-03, 18:27   Link #4075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
For the first part, you have to go straight to the Japanese because our translation doesn't cover it: 楼座が娘の誕生日のために作った、世界でたった一つの____. In English, this is similar to saying 'The ___ that Rosa made for her daughter's birthday, and the only one in the world'. In other words, even if you do believe that partial reds count literally, this line only means that Rosa once made Maria something for her birthday...but it could be any birthday and any thing. You could also argue that missing the です counts as lacking an 'is', like 'Sakutaro **** the present'

I'm not saying I'm convinced this is the case, but I think it's possible.

For your second bit, that's just not true: 俺は右代 and 俺は、右代宮 aren't even close to the 生まれた of "俺は、右代宮明日夢から生まれた。"
Wait. Are you telling me that red is not based on context? If that's true then all reds could be fake because none of them specify the time they are valid

そのぬいぐるみは特別なぬいぐるみ
楼座が娘の誕生日のために作った、世界でたった一つの


Those are two red sentences one directly after another. To claim that they are unrelated you'd have to think that Beatrice was purposely trying to trick Ange, and that makes absolutely no sense since Beatrice didn't know that Sakutaro wasn't the only stuffed animal Rosa made. If she did how can you explain that she tried to say something that was false?

The subject of the second sentence is the same as in the first, if you think it isn't provide a good explanation as to why Beatrice would try to use a trick in such a situation.

Quote:
t has never been said that Battler is Rudolf's son. ANGE proposed that in blue, and Beato simply did not counter it. Was it because she felt sorry for Battler? Did she just want to die, seeing as how she lost MARIA?
And where was it stated that Battler is not Rudolf's son? You talk as if it is a fact that Ange and Battler are not related, but that's absolutely not proven. So you are trying to prove your point using something that isn't proven. It doesn't work that way.

You can think that red isn't true if you want but you can't say there are reasons to believe so. Unless you provide some facts and not conjectures
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Old 2009-12-03, 20:00   Link #4076
Marion
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Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
...I'm sorry, but you need to practice what you preach.

It has never been said that Battler is Rudolf's son. ANGE proposed that in blue, and Beato simply did not counter it. Was it because she felt sorry for Battler? Did she just want to die, seeing as how she lost MARIA?

Heck,

Spoiler for EP5:
I HIGHLY doubt Rudolf isn't Battler's father. It's like you need everything to be spelled out in red or you doubt it, and if that's the case then Umineko is a huge troll game. I see no reason to doubt Rudolf isn't Battler's father to be frank.

Also what you say about red doesn't make sense.

Battler says: "Battler Ushiromiya was born from Asumu Ushiromiya"
He can't say "I was born from Asumu Ushiromiya"

According to what you said Battler should be able to state he was born from Asumu because he believes he was. Red isn't subjective on what you believe, it's the truth.
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:09   Link #4077
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Preview for 24

http://media.animate.tv/anime/uminek...000k_4581d.asx
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:13   Link #4078
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Yay the Siestas host a preview!! =D

It looks like less than serious Virgilia is finally going to appear in the next episode. Lambdadelta as well! ^^
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:22   Link #4079
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Old 2009-12-03, 22:23   Link #4080
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The ruining of drunk-Beato is approaching

Kinzo was awesome at the end ~~O: <------- text impression

The anime is really winding down, ain't it DD: Dramatic Beato/Battler scene is coming....

Awww, Siestas almost forgot 556 DDDD:

Bye-bye Kanon~ :he-*shot*
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