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Old 2009-07-11, 14:59   Link #1081
Klashikari
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The thing is that the "witch's side" can only be expected with the second twilight and the last letter. Aside of these points, Episode 1 looks like a cookie cutter locked island murder mystery.
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Old 2009-07-11, 15:05   Link #1082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The thing is that the "witch's side" can only be expected with the second twilight and the last letter. Aside of these points, Episode 1 looks like a cookie cutter locked island murder mystery.
If I was an anime-only viewer, I woulda thought there was some magic stuffs going on with all them golden butterflies flying around O_O But maybe I just have an extended imagination
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Old 2009-07-11, 15:23   Link #1083
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Now, I have a little question for all VN readers: as you might know, I'm currently typing some analysis article for the first time watchers in order to give them some food for thought, with the least possible spoiler possible.

However, while I'm using mt own point of view I had during Episode 1 first reading, I realize that I might disrupt some "fun theorycraft" because I managed to outwit the plot and expecting "body double" but also "why did the culprit put that giant sigil and didn't hide the key?". Such questions might be exposed by the characters themselves, but since there is no clear confirmation how DEEN will handle everyone's stance for this, I'm rather in a dead lock regarding what I "can" write and what I "cannot".

For that matter, I'm asking this question and I will probably post the link here before making it "really public".
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Old 2009-07-11, 15:53   Link #1084
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Now, I have a little question for all VN readers: as you might know, I'm currently typing some analysis article for the first time watchers in order to give them some food for thought, with the least possible spoiler possible.
Why not wait to post this at the end of Episode I (anime)?
I personally like reading the views of the first time viewers with only the anime knowledge presented.

I find it quite surprising the number of people already claiming witch.
There's also some people who are coming up with interesting conclusions.
I rather them be untainted until Episode I ends before giving any info they missed from the game or otherwise.
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Old 2009-07-11, 16:36   Link #1085
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@Klash: I'd say wait till the end of each Ep like nagare said
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:05   Link #1086
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagare View Post
Why not wait to post this at the end of Episode I (anime)?
I personally like reading the views of the first time viewers with only the anime knowledge presented.
Actually, what afraids me the most is the fact some readers are too impatient for more details and come to spoil themselves in ridiculous way.
As bit like my usual articles for higu, I solely used relevant information of the given episode that don't necesseraly give them an epiphany whatsoever.
To be more blunt, these are more like food for thought, even though it is arguably a kind of guidance (which is why I will never post it in the first time viewers thread).

But because the anime watchers have much more "time to kill", I believe providing the information at the same time would be more handy and less crude to "digest" for them, than everything on the last episode of an Arc, which can turn things ugly in term of escalated theories flow. Hence why I believe it should be thorough each episode, so long it is kept within the timeframe.
That said, whoever who wish to read them would obviously not want to stick with only the anime material (otherwise, I should just take out all TIPS thread etc as well *scratches head*).

Anyway, it is posted here. It can be edited any time, that said (now 4AM, i need really to have a rest...)
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Old 2009-07-11, 22:09   Link #1087
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Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post

Edit: Something worthwhile to check out by the way:
Satirical comparison between anime Umi episode1 and the game. Some of those are quite funny to be honest .
That is a big pile of epic win xDDDDD
that guy should make another one for episode 2 lolol
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Old 2009-07-11, 23:36   Link #1088
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To elaborate this point, one would require Japanese knowledge: although it is rather difficult to check with the anime alone, we can testify with the game that the letter was absolutely not in plain Hiragana, but filled with kanji. And to make things interesting, several of them are certainly not suited for a 4th grader (such like 師 for fifth grade, 錬 and 契 for seventh grade).
There's an interesting fact about this. In the pic nic scene, maria reads a passage of the epitaph and then she triumphantly says. "Uu-uu Maria could read it!"
This is a definitive proof that a 9 year old girl isn't supposed to be able to read the epitaph that easily. But if I analyse this fact a little further, I can't help but to think Maria is "playing dumb". I mean, she transcribed the epitaph herself, of course, you could copy a kanji even without understanding it, but Maria had 2 years to study it, and considering her passion for the occult and everything that concerns Beatrice, how am I supposed to believe that Maria didn't read it several times already?
Of course this doesn't apply with the witch's letter, because she didn't know the contents beforehand... or maybe she did, as Klashikari is speculating.
Anyway Maria is playing dumb when she's in the cute mode, and she plays smart when in witch mode. The real Maria is probably in the middle of them and the smart Maria could be just a fake if she already knew the things she is talking about. For example she could have already known the meaning of the inscription on the chapel, so she wasn't really reading the english sentence.

Anyway. I think that the "playing dumb" part is almost certainly a fact, Maria is not that stupid, if she was, she couldn't act that smart even if she wanted to. That is why I'm not really fond of the "autistic" theory, because Maria really isn't stupid nor retarded.

But as what concerns the "playing smart" part it is impossible to establish what is due to her intelligence and what is due to a specific indoctrination. Not with the elements in our possession, so this part is a mere speculation for now.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:09   Link #1089
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May I ask something? I can't remember when the Devil's Proof come up the first time. Is it in EP1 when Battler discuss with Kyrie about who game Maria umbrella and letter? If that so, then DEEN cut really important stuff out.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:32   Link #1090
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Originally Posted by Alaya View Post
May I ask something? I can't remember when the Devil's Proof come up the first time. Is it in EP1 when Battler discuss with Kyrie about who game Maria umbrella and letter? If that so, then DEEN cut really important stuff out.
Yeah they mentioned Devil's Proof and how no one can prove at this point whether Beatrice is an 18th person or a 19th person, excluding Maria.

Yeah here's the line in the VN, from their talk:

Battler: Maybe, for some reason, they landed on the island stealthily and have been hiding ever since. ......It's what they call Devil's Proof. It's easy to prove something exists. If this Beatrice appears in front of us all and says hi, then everything is resolved. However, it's impossible to prove that there is no 19th person.
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Last edited by Marion; 2009-07-12 at 01:43.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:41   Link #1091
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Yeah they mentioned Devil's Proof and how no one can prove at this point whether Beatrice is an 18th person or a 19th person, excluding Maria.
Then DEEN really cut extremely important subject out. I don't know how can they introduce this part later.

Is it ok to tell the new viewers about this?
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:44   Link #1092
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Originally Posted by Alaya View Post
Then DEEN really cut extremely important subject out. I don't know how can they introduce this part later.

Is it ok to tell the new viewers about this?
Devil's Proof eventually comes back in the 2nd arc, but it's unsure whether or not DEEN will say anything on it. It's not much of an important fact as it is a line of reasoning Battler is accustomed to.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:46   Link #1093
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Honestly, I think the mention of Devil's Proof here isn't entirely major. Sure, it becomes big later, but having it introduced at that time won't be a huge problem.

It's just one of those things that shows up in EP1, like the asides about the goats, and Kinzo being Goldsmith.
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Old 2009-07-12, 01:49   Link #1094
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Will wait and see how DEEN will execute this then. But I really doubt DEEN will be able to put this well...
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Old 2009-07-12, 07:07   Link #1095
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Well those things are harmless if placed in a contest that would make you overlook them.

A different thing is if you go to the anime viewers thread and say: hey DEEN forgot to mention the devil's proof, the goats, and Goldsmith: those are important hints!

They aren't supposed to be seen as important hints at this time, but there's no way you can tell the anime watchers about such hints without giving them importance.
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Old 2009-07-12, 07:14   Link #1096
Klashikari
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This is correct; unless you give them ALL missing details (which is almost better to tell them to read the VN intead), pointing missing details will certainly puts emphasis and misplaced foreshadowing points despite VN readers wouldn't expect that at the given context of these hints.
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Old 2009-07-12, 07:31   Link #1097
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So if the anime neglects to mention it by the start of the second game is it free time to mention it? The problem is we don't know when they plan on putting it. You have two problems regarding the current failure to reveal this important (though misused) aspect of logical argument:

1. If we tell the viewers about it now, not knowing if the series will reveal it now or later, it'll come out as inadvertedly emphasized and possibly spoil them.

2. If they chose not to reveal it and we end up telling the viewers about it much later, this bit of information comes out too late to properly help them at the point where they have their own large sets of conjectures.
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Old 2009-07-12, 08:02   Link #1098
Jan-Poo
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Well nobody made conjectures about the devil's proof before the game between Beatrice and Battler started. I don't think it's a problem.

What I can foresee is that Beatrice in the anime will use the devil's proof argument without explaining it in detail. At that point we can tell them what it is exactly.

As for the goats and goldsmith, they aren't really important.

The main problem I see is with Asumu being Battler's real mother, and the existence of Ange.

If the Anime doesn't tell this already the first appearance on Ange would be quite a WTF. And what about ep4 revelation?

Spoiler for Ep4:
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Old 2009-07-12, 08:09   Link #1099
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Revealing who Asumu is really isn't that important since she really only comes into the spotlight in Ep4. They can easily reveal Asumu and Kyrie being Rudolph's second wife during the parts where Battler's rebbelious phase and living with his maternal granparents are expounded on.

The goats and the goldsmith aren't important until the metaworld scenes anyway, and you can make the conjecture that the goats are magical beings under the witch.

On that note, whether or not they choose to explicitly emphasize Asumu, I imagine viewer brains collectively asploding when they reveal that he is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son.
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Old 2009-07-12, 08:17   Link #1100
nagare
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Well, I don't think DEEN needs to say flat out that weirdness of Maria reading the letter.
The primary audience is native Japanese speakers.
There are various words in that letter that aren't in a normal 9 year's old vocabulary.
A perceptive listener probably would have picked up that Maria probably should have had a harder time to read the letter.

Quote:
To elaborate this point, one would require Japanese knowledge: although it is rather difficult to check with the anime alone, we can testify with the game that the letter was absolutely not in plain Hiragana, but filled with kanji. And to make things interesting, several of them are certainly not suited for a 4th grader (such like 師 for fifth grade, 錬 and 契 for seventh grade).
By itself those kanji may be hard to read, but when I was around Maria's age I knew how to read 錬金術師 and 契約 which are probably the two words you pulled those kanjis from. If Maria has been reading books about witches or any books/mangas in the fantasy genre, she most likely has been exposed to those words.

I personally don't think the kanji/grade is a great way to measure what Maria can and cannot read. To me it was 致して or 当家顧問 and the over all language of the letter that will clue that off to a listener especially since she read it without stuttering.

To me hearing it vocally made that letter stand out more than reading it.
I wouldn't mark this particular fact a failure on DEEN's part.
Ho-chan was effective.


It is something worth pointing out, but I wouldn't go so far as say failure.
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