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Old 2009-07-16, 08:34   Link #1201
Marion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oekitarts View Post
Maybe the words were so out-of-this-world and downright alien to Battler...
...maybe he heard it, but could not understand or believe what she said.
I don't think so. You can say that she just muttered it and his didn't overhear the words 'key' and 'six'.
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Old 2009-07-16, 08:50   Link #1202
June 1983
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Originally Posted by Alaya View Post
Ironic, for witch who is hunted for heresy to draw the circle of God. Maybe this is a prove that the witch is a fake.
Most witchcraft dating back to the middle ages is based on Christian superstition, though -- for example, SATOR-AREPO (I sure wish that would turn up in the game, it would be awesome). That definitely seems to be in line with all of the occult stuff that is being used in Umineko.

Also, I haven't finished Ep 4 yet so maybe there are more clues about this, but this thread made me wonder if 07151129 might be referring to Bible chapter/verses, since they've come up quite a bit in the game already.
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Old 2009-07-16, 08:55   Link #1203
Jan-Poo
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Anyway I also find it very strange that in this fantasy universe witches and magic base their arts on the bible and the cabal. I usually associate witches and sorcery with pagan cults and certainly all those bible thumping who hate harry potter and similar works do not think of "magic" as something related to the holy book.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:22   Link #1204
June 1983
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Anyway I also find it very strange that in this fantasy universe witches and magic base their arts on the bible and the cabal. I usually associate witches and sorcery with pagan cults and certainly all those bible thumping who hate harry potter and similar works do not think of "magic" as something related to the holy book.
Er, well as I just said, that's the modern popular opinion perhaps, but historically it's inaccurate. From the middle ages on the occult has been rooted in Christianity and heresy, etc. It draws on ancient pagan religions, too, but most of what we think of as occultish practices have their origins in post-Christian practices and are therefore very steeped in Christian culture.

This is one book that gives a good overview of the origins of a lot of these practices, though obviously, the "occult" that appears in Umineko is a culmination of superstitions building up through the Renaissance to the 19th century.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:23   Link #1205
nagare
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Originally Posted by June 1983 View Post
Also, I haven't finished Ep 4 yet so maybe there are more clues about this, but this thread made me wonder if 07151129 might be referring to Bible chapter/verses, since they've come up quite a bit in the game already.
Yea, that's what I thought.
Here's what I came up with a while back (EP 03 game thread):
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagare View Post
Spoiler for 07151129:
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:25   Link #1206
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I don't think so. You can say that she just muttered it and his didn't overhear the words 'key' and 'six'.
Actually, Maria said "It's just the sacrifices chosen by the key".

So yes, the words were so unexpected to Battler that he couldn't pick them out from Maria's whisper at first. But later on, once he hears the word "sacrifices" elsewhere, it jolts his memory.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:26   Link #1207
June 1983
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re: nagare

Oooh, good work. Those do seem really fitting. I like the Corinthians one especially, as it seems to have a lot to do with Battler's and Beatrice's game.

I wondered if maybe there was a hint about which book in the Bible it could be contained somewhere in the original circle that was on the door, but it seems quite difficult to say.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:27   Link #1208
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I'm not a Christian, nor a Westerner, so my knowledge of Western occult and holy symbols are practically minimum. It's interested me that the origin of witchcraft is also based on religions (although not surprising since many Eastern occults are also the same).

I guess maybe most people associate the supernatural power that related to the bible with priests.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:29   Link #1209
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I must say... I founnd it kinda hilarous in the novel that they only understand the murders were following the epitaph at the very end. I clearly remember at that time I thought: what the hell? Are you noticing it only now?
Now it would be understandable if Maria hadn't say a thing, but she clearly spoke of sacrifices explaining the first magic circle, pus there were all of those witch letters, and the demonic stakes.

Pretty much every anime watcher reached that conclusion instantly even before Maria spoke.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:32   Link #1210
June 1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaya View Post
I'm not a Christian, nor a Westerner, so my knowledge of Western occult and holy symbols are practically minimum. It's interested me that the origin of witchcraft is also based on religions (although not surprising since many Easter occults are also the same).

I guess maybe most people associate the supernatural power that related to the bible with priests.
I think that's a pretty common assumption ... and actually, your last statement is a good way of thinking about it. A lot occult superstition grew originally out of folk superstition, basically ordinary people coming up with ways to protect themselves from evil or demons without the mediating force of a priest. So a lot of really old "spells" and charms incorporate Christian prayers. Or sometimes a charm will call on Woden in one line and Christ in the next.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:32   Link #1211
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Jan-Poo; Same here. I was surprised it took them that long to realise it.
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Old 2009-07-16, 09:35   Link #1212
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It's actually not odd to think about how witches, western mysticism and the like are tied to Judeo-Christian lore. A lot of of the early Western-based mysticism was actually based on the Kaballah and by extension the Zohar (no not Xenogears/saga) and many other writings of the Judaic(sp?) and Hebrew traditions.
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Old 2009-07-16, 10:23   Link #1213
milkypink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I must say... I founnd it kinda hilarous in the novel that they only understand the murders were following the epitaph at the very end. I clearly remember at that time I thought: what the hell? Are you noticing it only now?
Now it would be understandable if Maria hadn't say a thing, but she clearly spoke of sacrifices explaining the first magic circle, pus there were all of those witch letters, and the demonic stakes.

Pretty much every anime watcher reached that conclusion instantly even before Maria spoke.
Well.... maybe they were in shock? I mean, if people you knew and loved around you started getting gruesomely murdered would you immediately go "oh my god it's the epitaph!" instead of just thinking "WHAT THE F**K!" and panicking? (well, Kyrie might have... )

On another hand, Episode 1 of Umineko seems to start out focusing on the traditional closed circle mystery angle - people start dying (albeit a little flashily), what's the motive? A large fortune is at stake, so naturally people's attention might be drawn to that, rather than to revive a witch or some other nonsense... Eva makes this conclusion at the end of her talk with Battler, that she's the most likely culprit because she's the next in line. I think it was most likely done from a story perspective to play down the supernatural element, and start the game off with a horror/mystery feel.
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Old 2009-07-16, 10:32   Link #1214
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Well Battler recovered pretty fast from his shock, it's not like he wasn't able to think straight.
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Old 2009-07-16, 10:46   Link #1215
Alaya
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well Battler recovered pretty fast from his shock, it's not like he wasn't able to think straight.
I think he focused his thoughts on something else (theories, possible culprits, etc.) Or he just turn the chessboard over and over too many times.
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Old 2009-07-16, 12:29   Link #1216
Nadeor
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I posted this in the discussion poll earlier
but however, it doesn't seem to have attracted much attention
took me a while to translate these from Baidu (A.K.A. Chinese 4chan) Umineko board
This is absolutely the most hilarious thing I've read since:

Spoiler for ep4:


That line was also from Baidu
and now this...
Warning: Spoiler up 'till epI-III(Dubious Move)

Spoiler for George: '...Dad, is there a ring anywhere on Shannon's fingers?':


I hope you guys enjoy it =_=|||
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Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep1: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep2: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep3: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep4: Finished

Umineko no Naku Koro ni EP5: ...??

Accumulating 07th point -.-
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Old 2009-07-16, 12:45   Link #1217
Jan-Poo
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Ha ha fantastic! The "bad end" one and the "autoresurrection ring" were priceless XD
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Old 2009-07-16, 12:59   Link #1218
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Originally Posted by Nadeor View Post
Spoiler for George: '...Dad, is there a ring anywhere on Shannon's fingers?':
haha that was the best one
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Old 2009-07-16, 13:35   Link #1219
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...The fact that you guys enjoyed it has shown that you are all cruel bastards...jk
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Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep1: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep2: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep3: Finished
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Ep4: Finished

Umineko no Naku Koro ni EP5: ...??

Accumulating 07th point -.-
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Old 2009-07-16, 13:43   Link #1220
Jan-Poo
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frankly after seeing the anime I'm more and more convinced that that corpse is NOT Shannon.
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