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Old 2009-07-19, 07:36   Link #1261
Jan-Poo
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they are suspecting Natsuhi already, time for ep3 they will all switch to the "killer milf" trope.
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:03   Link #1262
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Afraid of posting this in the first time viewers thread, so it's slightly off topic.

I was thinking about Eva/Hideyoshi closed room and how peculiar the solution for it could be. Using logic, the murders had to be done by either magic or trick, otherwise we have to assume the scene is somehow altered (i.e. someone is lying). So trick or lie? They both seem like easy ways out. If we go by trick then the culprit was either inside the room the whole time (under the bed?) or they got out at one point and put the chain back somehow (unless there's a whole different exit). If there exists a method X by which the culprit can put the chain back, then maybe they stayed in the room until Genji knocked on the door. Afterwards, while both servants were away, the culprit exited the room, painted the magic symbol and made their escape.

Here's where the really silly part of the theory starts. I believe in the VN it was said that Kanon cut through the chain far easier than he would have imagined or something, maybe this is a hint of sorts? Maybe the chain was already cut once when the culprit was entering the room for the first time and then was either replaced or put back together somehow? I wonder if you could glue it together through the crack in the door

Thoughts? Which explanation you guys would prefer, trick or lie?
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:20   Link #1263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nih View Post
Afraid of posting this in the first time viewers thread, so it's slightly off topic.

I was thinking about Eva/Hideyoshi closed room and how peculiar the solution for it could be. Using logic, the murders had to be done by either magic or trick, otherwise we have to assume the scene is somehow altered (i.e. someone is lying). So trick or lie? They both seem like easy ways out. If we go by trick then the culprit was either inside the room the whole time (under the bed?) or they got out at one point and put the chain back somehow (unless there's a whole different exit). If there exists a method X by which the culprit can put the chain back, then maybe they stayed in the room until Genji knocked on the door. Afterwards, while both servants were away, the culprit exited the room, painted the magic symbol and made their escape.

Here's where the really silly part of the theory starts. I believe in the VN it was said that Kanon cut through the chain far easier than he would have imagined or something, maybe this is a hint of sorts? Maybe the chain was already cut once when the culprit was entering the room for the first time and then was either replaced or put back together somehow? I wonder if you could glue it together through the crack in the door

Thoughts? Which explanation you guys would prefer, trick or lie?

I'd say a bit of both....I mean, there could be a situation wherethe chain wasn't properly placed. Which would make it a whole lot easier for the culprit to unlock it from the outside. Since the television was on, and most likely the shower as well, it could be difficult to hear the sound of an unlocking chain.

But about the glue thing.......glue can hold metal together?
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:28   Link #1264
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I have no idea, maybe some superglue. Was just an example since I don't know how one could actually put the chain back together in that situation.
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:39   Link #1265
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It's possible to have some type of glue that can stick metal together. But well, it's Devil's Proof right now.

But that's quite possible because no one cares to observe the chain afterward too. So we really don't know if some type of adhesive was used to stick the chain together or not.
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Old 2009-07-19, 08:48   Link #1266
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True. Although I think Battler said he looked at how the chain was setup (at least in the VN he did, I think), but there's no indication of how thorough his inspection was and then it's Battler, so yea
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Old 2009-07-19, 09:20   Link #1267
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I've seen once in a documentary a glue that was used to attach two metal plates and they could hold the weight of a whole truck. Of course I don't think you can find such kind of thing in the stores, but a weaker version probably exists.

Anyway in the Anime thread there was something interesting that has been said about the magic circles. I'm not talking about the paint that reacts to heat, because that's hard to explain especially in the case of the magic circle in the shed. However a paint that reacts to chemical is probably more feasible.

Let's say this is a paint that reacts to water for example. It could be invisible until you spray some water on it, then it reacts and turns red. In the case of the shed, Kanon didn't see anything before it started raining. In the case of Eva's and Hideyoshi's door, until it was closed nothing happened, but then Genji opened the door. While the chain was still there, the door was opened enough to let the vapor (the shower had been pouring water for a while so it's safe to assume the room was saturated) pass through and cause the reaction.

Of course it is also possible that the "culprit" sprayed water or other chemicals to get the same result in a very limited amount of time.
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Old 2009-07-19, 09:28   Link #1268
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I don't think we have chemicals that react with water and change it's color (and I say this as a Chemistry student).

Normally for a compounds to have a color, it must form some kind of complex with transition metal, or form a poly-conjugated system, which normally water fail to do so. It's possible to have some kind of metal complex that give red color (Iron thiocyanate as an example) but normally those kind of complex will be presented as a solid crystal so it not practical to "paint" it on the door.

For long conjugated system, normally they don't dissolve in water and the reaction with water normally requires acid as a catalyst so it's quite impractical too.

EDIT: Well, there are some elements that have color (Chlorine, Bromine, Iodine) but they are natural color without reacting with anything.

EDIT2: However, I won't deny the possibility of some compounds that I don't know, or are only known by specialists in dye and paint. It's possible that such a thing exist, but very unlikely.
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Last edited by Alaya; 2009-07-19 at 10:26.
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Old 2009-07-19, 10:44   Link #1269
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http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html
There is a preview of ep I-IV in the official site, it seems it'll end when they found Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa's corpses. If that's the case then most of ep I-V will be the Tea Party.
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Old 2009-07-19, 10:52   Link #1270
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That preview was around for a while now.

And I will now tell you something really upsetting
The episode will end with Natsuhi chasing the others out of the study which is the blunder
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Old 2009-07-19, 10:54   Link #1271
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Well indeed is a big blunder. Even if one of them was the assassin, the last thing I'd want to do was to let him roam free in the house while I'm stuck in a room. Did Natsuhi ever contemplate the possibility that they could set the whole house on fire?
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Old 2009-07-19, 10:57   Link #1272
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I don't think that someone would have thought of that in such a situation...I mean...I didin't think of it...
But I meant it more like, because they chased them out they died (or so it seems)
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Old 2009-07-19, 10:59   Link #1273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well indeed is a big blunder. Even if one of them was the assassin, the last thing I'd want to do was to let him roam free in the house while I'm stuck in a room. Did Natsuhi ever contemplate the possibility that they could set the whole house on fire?
Seems her emotion overcome her reasoning ^^"". Anyway, I don't think she's the smartest of the cast in Umineko anyway (that would be more likely to go to Kyrie, as far as I can guess). Or she might be an accomplice and use this as an excuse to throw the servants out of the room for the real culprit.
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Old 2009-07-19, 11:00   Link #1274
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Well at that time when I first read it, I thought it was an incredible bad move for two reasons:

1) Reason one: if the killer is not one of them, you have just doomed them

2) Reason two: if the killer is one of them, he can have a great advantage by being able to roam free, and sure there are ways to make someone get out of a room.

The thing I would have done was to tie them all with a rope or something of the like and then keep watching them closely.
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Old 2009-07-19, 11:05   Link #1275
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Of course we thought that it is a bad move, but setting the house in fire did came to my mind xD
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Old 2009-07-19, 12:43   Link #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well at that time when I first read it, I thought it was an incredible bad move for two reasons:

1) Reason one: if the killer is not one of them, you have just doomed them

2) Reason two: if the killer is one of them, he can have a great advantage by being able to roam free, and sure there are ways to make someone get out of a room.

The thing I would have done was to tie them all with a rope or something of the like and then keep watching them closely.
It is a bad move unless you are the culprit.
Then it would be brilliant to trick the children further into believing that one of the servants is in on the killings.
Of course this would require her to have an accomplice in the house, to carry out the last 3 murders, but that would also explain why Natsuhi died in the end.

If she really was the mastermind of Episode 1, this was the best idea she could have.
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Old 2009-07-19, 12:57   Link #1277
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Well yeah, that would be a brilliant move in that case, but why would she want to chase Maria out?

It is obvious that she isn't planning on killing the children, else she could have easily shot them all to death once she was all alone with them.
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Old 2009-07-19, 13:08   Link #1278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well yeah, that would be a brilliant move in that case, but why would she want to chase Maria out?

It is obvious that she isn't planning on killing the children, else she could have easily shot them all to death once she was all alone with them.
I think that Natsuhi chased Maria out to keep her image of "the guardian". Maria was the one that pointed out the letter if I remember correctly, and if we follow that Natsuhi's the mastermind, then she had to also chase Maria out since her motive for chasing them out was because any of those 4 could've placed the letter.

Yeah, I don't think I made much sense.
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Old 2009-07-19, 13:09   Link #1279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Well yeah, that would be a brilliant move in that case, but why would she want to chase Maria out?

It is obvious that she isn't planning on killing the children, else she could have easily shot them all to death once she was all alone with them.
Well Maria easily believes anything she hears about witches, magic and the Golden Land, so it's possible that Natsuhi told her, that there is nothing to worry about because whatever happens, they will meet again in the Golden Land once the prophecy is fullfilled.

It could have been Natsuhi who was using Maria, with all her knowledge of the occult and the legend Maria would be great for things like drawing magic circles.
And we know Maria wasn't sad about her mother dying because 'She would meet her ideal mother and father in the Golden Land.'.

Chasing Maria out would keep the image of 'there is something supernatural going on' because it could imply that Maria is an accomplice of the witch.
And naturally Natsuhi would have to leave a certain amount of people alive for the prophecy to count as 'fullfilled'.
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Old 2009-07-19, 13:25   Link #1280
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It's not that bad as a theory. Following this kind of reasoning then the last letter was from the accomplice, and he (she) was telling Natsuhi something that wasn't part of their agreement. Maybe the accomplice wanted to kill the children as well.
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