AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-19, 19:47   Link #3041
Marina2
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
So, anybody know if chapter 20 was delayed or not?
There is no confirmation from offical source on that but since Ritz only think plot&story for Achiga-hen manga, it shouldn't be delayed.

News in Animenewsnetwork also only mentioned main manga to be delayed.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic44739_1.gif

Last edited by Marina2; 2013-02-19 at 20:05.
Marina2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 05:59   Link #3042
cedec0
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
getting Yakumans is easy

So I followed a link I found on this forum (http://gamedesign.jp/flash/mahjong/mahjong_e.html) and tried playing some Mahjong for the first time. Now I have zero experience (most of what I what I know comes from watching Saki and Achiga-hen).

In the first han-chan, I predictably got my ass kicked by the computer:



However, in the second han-chan, this happened:



I got a Yakuman: Kokushi-Musou (thirteen orphans)




Lesson from this: getting Yakumans is easy. After all, a complete noob like me managed to get one after only sixteen games.

Saki and Achiga-hen seem much more realistic now. lol.
cedec0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 06:39   Link #3043
Marina2
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
^
^
That's a nice first game.

However, you should considers your first yakuman a luck. Try to get 5-10 more times before saying it is easy.

By the way, if you want to try the game that has Saki feeling, you should try Touhou Unreal Mahjong.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic44739_1.gif
Marina2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 07:19   Link #3044
desrtsku
Hold this for me.
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: TwintailsVille
Age: 22
We have a real life Kaori here.
__________________
desrtsku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 07:30   Link #3045
Von Himmel
やっはろーヽ(*∀`)ノ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
I don't think people wouldn't notice you're trying to do Kokushi there. At the very least, they shouldn't discard a terminal with a discard like that. Nice one though, I only ever got yakuman when playing 3p.
__________________
その光りは、単なる一筋の光りではない。人類の希望を繋いだ。


Von Himmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 10:20   Link #3046
Bladezer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
I don't think people wouldn't notice you're trying to do Kokushi there. At the very least, they shouldn't discard a terminal with a discard like that. Nice one though, I only ever got yakuman when playing 3p.
The guy who played in had declared riichi.

And I know how it feels to play into a 13 orphans

And Yakuman hands are really hard to make, I got a hand that was near to a 4 big winds once, made 2 pons, had 1 wind concealed was waiting on the last wind, then someone beat me with a small hand.
Bladezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 10:42   Link #3047
Von Himmel
やっはろーヽ(*∀`)ノ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
Quote:
The guy who played in had declared riichi.
Uh no it didn't? That's open hand right there.

IIRC, the opponent is an AI, right?

never got dealt with yakuman before though it's probably because I'm just lucky I'm not really good at reading tiles. In my case when I played with my friends, most of them got dealt by yakuman mainly because of riichi though

...It's really hard not to click riichi every time the icon appears on screen.
__________________
その光りは、単なる一筋の光りではない。人類の希望を繋いだ。


Von Himmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 11:12   Link #3048
Bladezer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Uh no it didn't? That's open hand right there.
Whoops misread that, thought in was the player who discarded the on of dots not the 9 of characters.
Bladezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 12:46   Link #3049
Serperior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
A Yakuman!? I've been playing for about 8 months now and I hadn't even gotten a yakuman yet...

Getting a Yakuman isn;t easy. It's really really rare. Though I guess your chances of succeeding a Kokushi Musou is heightened since you're playing against AIs but if you are against real life players, you wouldn't have succeeded since Kokushi Musou is one of the easiest Yakuman to detect. I'm sounding like a sore loser

Also: Achiga isn't delayed but the main manga is and.. I can't find my post on Hitomi's hands. I still can't calculate han and fu so I don't know the exact points of her hand but...
Serperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 15:31   Link #3050
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Upon further thought, Shizu's ability bears some similarity to Teru's mirror. It feels like a learning ability to me, though for Shizu it's more on the subconscious level.

She'll passively accumulate information about her opponent's style as she plays them and as time goes on she'll auto adjust to correct her play to suit the opponent's ability and power. The strength she'll be able to unleash is dependent on how much data she's gathered and as she gains understanding and insight on her opponent that flame will manifest like we saw on chapter 19 page 21 right before she ronned Awai.

Her defensive abilities seem to increase as well as her offense as she protected herself perfectly throughout the match from direct damage except for the very first hand, also shown as she directly identifies the incoming threat of Awai's wait on page 9 of chapter 19 and avoids the direct hit that Himiko walks right into.

Koromo also explained Shizu did the same thing against her, at first getting dominated by three Haitei's while preventing two on the first day and then completely blocking all attempts to do it on the second day. She still failed to beat Koromo but still apparently impressed her by auto adjusting to Koromo's style to compete with her but still losing due to the current skill gap that they had.

So it seems the longer a match goes on or the more times she fights the same person, Shizu will get progressively harder and more dangerous to deal with. If my theory is correct, Awai will have one hell of a fight on her hands in the finals. We'd have to see how long it takes Shizu to adjust to Saki's kans too.
The Green One is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 15:33   Link #3051
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Haha. I started playing mahjong on tenhou since the start of January too. Got my first yakuman after about 60 games, I guess. It was just completely bullshit luck, though, lol. It was practically impossible not to get it given my starting hand.

Take a look at the log:
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013020922g...-608e1d8d&tw=1
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 15:43   Link #3052
thenightsshadow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
I still haven't managed a yakuman online, but I have three now in person. Still waiting for that elusive first online yakuman.
thenightsshadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 15:47   Link #3053
Bladezer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serperior View Post
Getting a Yakuman isn;t easy. It's really really rare. Though I guess your chances of succeeding a Kokushi Musou is heightened since you're playing against AIs but if you are against real life players, you wouldn't have succeeded since Kokushi Musou is one of the easiest Yakuman to detect. I'm sounding like a sore loser
Wouldn't a Big 4 Winds and Big 3 dragons be easier to detect, since well you'd be discarding all your sequence tiles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serperior View Post
Also: Achiga isn't delayed but the main manga is and.. I can't find my post on Hitomi's hands. I still can't calculate han and fu so I don't know the exact points of her hand but...
I found it on page 116, 4th post down. It's details were about the counter she came up for Takami's yakuman. I really would like to use this on the saki wiki to help outline Hitomi's skill.
Bladezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 20:54   Link #3054
cedec0
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
It was practically impossible not to get it given my starting hand.
That is what happened to me. In my starting hand, I had one of each of the wind tiles. I figured that might be something special so I scrolled down (http://gamedesign.jp/flash/mahjong/mahjong_e.html) to see what winning hands might work. I found there was only one hand it was good for: Kokushi-Musou, a yakuman.

I look at my starting hand again and notice that I also have: one of each dragon tiles, the 1 of circles, and the 9 of bamboo. So nine of the thirteen orphans total. Pretty nice starting hand no?

;--------------------------------

Quote:
if you are against real life players, you wouldn't have succeeded since Kokushi Musou is one of the easiest Yakuman to detect.
My mahjong knowledge is very limited, but, when I declared riichii, I thought my chances of winning were fairly good:



Since none of my winning tiles (the 9 of characters) were in the discard pile, I figured at least one was still in the wall, which meant there was 50% or more chance that it would be drawn by either me or my riichied opponent. Unless one of the other players won first (what I was really worried about), I thought my odds of winning were good at that point. (Also, would a human player really be watching out for Kokushi from a total beginner?)

;--------------------------------

I think I might hold off on playing mahjong (at least for while). I suspect that playing any more might ruin my current ratio of one yakuman every 16 games.
cedec0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 21:18   Link #3055
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 30
There's no use to declaring riichi in such a situation. You're just giving away you're in tenpai for no benefit. And even if ppl weren't expecting a kokushi, from your discards ppl should be wary of you having a chanta (terminal) based hand.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 22:06   Link #3056
Von Himmel
やっはろーヽ(*∀`)ノ
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
Quote:
I thought my odds of winning were good at that point. (Also, would a human player really be watching out for Kokushi from a total beginner?)
They do, except if they just want to play around Even I like to play while ignoring all other players discard and just focusing on completing my hands.

Riichi is usually bad idea because you basically scream "I'm in tenpai" to your opponents which usually makes them fold. Since you're having yakuman hand, using a riichi won't increase your yaku too so it's practically useless.
__________________
その光りは、単なる一筋の光りではない。人類の希望を繋いだ。


Von Himmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 22:55   Link #3057
cedec0
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
There's no use to declaring riichi in such a situation. You're just giving away you're in tenpai for no benefit.
Quote:
Since you're having yakuman hand, using a riichi won't increase your yaku too so it's practically useless.
I will remember that. I wasn't sure whether I needed to riichi or not at the time, but I did so anyway. (I didn't want to risk missing out on a yakuman because I didn't riichi)
cedec0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 01:47   Link #3058
eavein18
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by cedec0 View Post
I will remember that. I wasn't sure whether I needed to riichi or not at the time, but I did so anyway. (I didn't want to risk missing out on a yakuman because I didn't riichi)
You actually lower the chance of getting a yakuman when you riichi....

since it is AI so I guess it's okay (albeit pointless, cause yakuman is the highest hand you could got, and a riichi is pointless)

riichi is good on normal hand, since it gives you a yaku.

But riichi on yakuman won't give you any additional score (yakuman will always be 32.000 non-dealer, 48.000 dealer, no matter if you riichi or not)

And riichi is making other players (that would ussually just give a passing glance at your discard) a warning that "I'm in tenpai!! Look at my hand!!!" thus they will analyze you hand as hard as they can, and throwing what they thought will be a save tile.
eavein18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 06:31   Link #3059
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
It's not as if there is no scenario where calling riichi might be reasonable when in tenpai for a yakuman, though. For example, one of the rules of the Suu Ankou yakuman is that you cannot ron unless you already have four concealed triplets (i.e. you are just waiting on the last single tile; not waiting on dual pairs, either of which could become your last triplet). In the case that you do have a dual pair wait, then, you must tsumo for the yakuman, in which case it is advantageous to delay your opponents from winning as long as possible (so you have more chances to draw your winning tile).

Riichi does have the property of broadcasting that you are in tenpai and thus making it less likely for opponents to deal into your hand, that is true. However, the other characteristic of riichi is that it makes your opponents more likely to give up/not try to win. The advantages and disadvantages of these two factors are what must be carefully considered whenever one has the opportunity to riichi (in addition to the yaku/extra points, of course).
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 12:31   Link #3060
Serperior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladezer View Post
Wouldn't a Big 4 Winds and Big 3 dragons be easier to detect, since well you'd be discarding all your sequence tiles?

I found it on page 116, 4th post down. It's details were about the counter she came up for Takami's yakuman. I really would like to use this on the saki wiki to help outline Hitomi's skill.
Well, yes, generally an open yakuman hand is one of the easiest to finish, but also easiest to detect. Kokushi Musou is one of the easiest close hand yakuman to detect since you are basically discarding any non terminal nor honors tile.

O-oh, I'm flattered you're going to use my post but remember that it's quite lacking information. (I can't count fu and han D but feel free to use it!

Here are the advantages of riichi:
1. You can get an additional yaku (or a yaku if you have none)
2. Ippatsu becomes a possibility (increased yaku) [e.g. A hand with lots of dora without any yaku is basically useless, but with riichi, it can become a mangan hand... add iipatsu and it becomes a baiman [depending on the doras though])
3. Uradora. The more kandora there is, the more uradora! (You may become like Awai and have a single 1300 hand turn into a 16000 hand!)
4. Generally, smart opponents fold. Hisa used this scare tactic into making Hajime give up her dealer turn during the prefectural match. It was an empty riichi some more!
5. If you are in last place, riichiing is usually a way to get higher scores. That's why Mairu riichis here and there during the match when she usually wins with cheap 3900 hands because she has nothing to lose. (Although Hitomi did that during Takami's match when Hitomi knows that Takami had a yakuman hand. A direct yakuman hit to Hitomi can effectively bust out Shindouji which is not a good technique )

Here are the disadvantages of riichi:
1. Your hand is fixed. If you riichi on a hellwait, you cannot modify your hand whatsoever. Unless you are Hisa, hellwaits are not usually successful.
2. Your defense becomes 0. Even if you get a good wait, a faster opponent can ron you. Awai's double riichi + kandora is really strong but she still lost a considerable amount of points to Ryuuka and Himeko.
3. You place a 1000 point stick on the table. Any player who wins get the stick. It's not usually life threatening but the fact that you lost an additional 1000 point is irritating.
4. Generally, faster opponent usually rushes their hand if they sense someone having a high scoring riichi hand. Sera riichi losing to Ako's cheap win is a good example.
5. You are telling your opponent that you are ready to win. You know in ep 14 when Mairu declares riichi and FunaQ comments that no one would deal in since her discards are obvious (but Seiko still dealt one of Mairu's winning tiles ) Unless you are confident in drawing the tiles of your choice or the ace of the Fukuoka prefecture for three years, usually letting your opponent knows your winning tile is a bad thing.

Maybe adv/disav:
1. Pursuit riichi - There's a curse that when you first riichi, even if you have a 6 sided wait, the next person who riichied will ron you, no matter how crappy the wait is. Toyone is really fearful.

tl;dr don't riichi with a yakuman hand so that your opponent wouldn't realize your hand till later on. Though pushing the riichi button is so tempting...

PS. Talking to you guys about mahjong is fun when we don't have any new chapters to talk about.

SPeaking of which, if anyone has free time, you guys should also modify the TV tropes character page for Saki!

Last edited by Serperior; 2013-02-22 at 12:45.
Serperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mahjong, nopan, seinen, sport, yuri

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.