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Old 2013-03-07, 16:35   Link #3161
orangejuicetang
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If I had to guess, I'd more just say Imagine Breaker has priority against everything.

Then again, I don't know what happened in that last hand either.
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Old 2013-03-07, 17:32   Link #3162
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I'm curious what Ritz and Igarashi's new manga will be about. Could be another Saki but i have no idea what it would be about. Maybe the pros? or one of the older tournaments?
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Old 2013-03-07, 17:33   Link #3163
Proto
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It's a lil silly that people find Shizu's power development annoying or surprising given that it has been hinted at several times during the past chapters (and glaringly so during the previous ones). It does make her match during the quarter finals a lil iffy, but then again we were only shown a hand of that match, and one where had just slipped off and needed to recover ASAP (whereas, as implied by this chapter, it'd seem her style is more about slow and steadily carve a 'territory' of her own on the flow of the game, and that it's something that only comes at the last stages of every haneman.)

edit: did they announce that they are working on a new project?
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Old 2013-03-07, 17:48   Link #3164
night_sentinel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
It's a lil silly that people find Shizu's power development annoying or surprising given that it has been hinted at several times during the past chapters (and glaringly so during the previous ones). It does make her match during the quarter finals a lil iffy, but then again we were only shown a hand of that match, and one where had just slipped off and needed to recover ASAP (whereas, as implied by this chapter, it'd seem her style is more about slow and steadily carve a 'territory' of her own on the flow of the game, and that it's something that only comes at the last stages of every haneman.)

edit: did they announce that they are working on a new project?

Yes. They announced a new working project. No clue though.

I'm sorry, Proto but I'm really finding it very hard to look for those hints. I just reread the manga and the whole thing is iffy. Shizuno's quarter game showed her to be on par or below Ako. The hints that you're saying happened was later in the development.

Rereading the whole thing. I feel like there is a Part I and a Part II. Everything covered in the anime is Part I. Part II is the newest chapters. There is a great divide in portrayal of Achiga between these two parts. Its as if they decided to change the direction of Achiga in Part II to make up for the complaints in Part I.

The last chapter especially is a disaster of epic proportion for Shizuno's character. In my opinion, she went from my second favorite Achiga to the last. Well, hopefully, the last chapter will look/read better when the translations come. But, at the moment I have to agree with those that are saying that this feels like an "Asspull."
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Old 2013-03-07, 17:57   Link #3165
Proto
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Well, I guess it comes down to opinion so we can only agree to disagree. (But if you ask me I'm better off since you're angry and I'm pretty ok with what happened )

The main sense of disconnect that I'd say I would agree with is Harue stepping up as a coach. Not that I'm complaining since the way she's been portrayed in the last few chapters is the way I would have expected to find a coach that is pushing a team of slightly above average girls to national levels, but they should have shown this since the beginning. Shizu's development can be explained by the fact we just didn't have any information other than one hand and some informed results before the last few chapters, but I do see where you're coming from and why ppl's milleage may vary in this respect.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:01   Link #3166
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
It's a lil silly that people find Shizu's power development annoying or surprising given that it has been hinted at several times during the past chapters (and glaringly so during the previous ones).
I'd say: the shocking aspect comes from how sudden her development came about. Yet, I'll give Shizu credit in her ability to be a clutch player. That's definitely someone you'd want in a Captain's game.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:09   Link #3167
Von Himmel
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It's because the author decision to keep her well hidden that makes this situation debatable. We've been shown little of what Shizu is capable of, and the fact that the clear foreshadowing were shown late in the series will bound to make people call it an asspull too.

As for me, I knew that Shizu will have some kind ability somewhat after the scene where she didn't get affected by Saki aura and that flame eyes scene when she met Nodoka. Then again, I don't really care about the outcome of side-a since I'm more interested to what happened between Saki and Teru in this series... other things that happened is more like additional story that whatever happened, I probably will end up enjoying it.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:11   Link #3168
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Well, I'm not truly angry just terribly terribly confused. The Achiga story just lost its narrative coherency and in its big climax too. I agree that Harue's coaching has something to do with it, but the development in the captain is really really forced.

But, I've said before this does make finding someone to root for the finals easier.

I think I'll Agree with Von, on this. The Side story is just that a side story. I'm more interested in the main manga right now, anyway. Satoha vs Yuki is looking good.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:27   Link #3169
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Well, we can also take Achiga-hen Semi-final round as the introduction to Shizu's power for the main manga.

If we look at it that way, it won't feel too force or won't feel asspull.

Also, why do some people see Achiga as [random no-name team that get to final]. Aren't this also the same for Kiyosumi???

Based on experience, each Achiga members has been playing Mahjong since their young age just like Kiyosumi members. Achiga members already have some skill in Mahjong with them. What Harue only need to do is teach them a technic/strategy in Mahjong which should be easy for them to learn.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2013-03-07 at 18:39.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:37   Link #3170
Kunagisa
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Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
Quite of a letdown when it comes to Shiraitodai from all the hype.
I don't think that's true.

Sharpshooter only lost cause of her silly habit.
Fisher ... is that failure every team must have.
Harvest Time chick never got to be oya in the last round.

Just look at the image posted. They were drinking tea and eating snacks when Awai got back. While the other teams were crying and holding funeral for the deceased.

And I think you seriously missed how strong the monkey is. I lol'ed so hard when people made the following reference.

Spoiler for size:


Keyword: Yoshino Mountain, En no Ozuno, Zao Gongen.

If Koromo's field ability is to help her master haitei, then monkey is to control piipai.
Awai losing to Shizu is ok in my book, and Awai didn't really throw a fit about it or anything.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:37   Link #3171
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I'd swallowed Sumire's tell & Seiko's horrid losses and all (albeit reluctantly), but this - now this is too much. I've always respected Ritz-sensei's ability to deal adeptly with foreshadowing, characterization, and power balance, but in this one chapter all three were shattered quite insensibly. Now, since translations aren't out yet, I can't say this for sure, but even by the raws it's possible to conclude enough to say that this last chapter has taken an incomprehensible turn.

Achiga consists mostly of members who have not played mahjong consistently for a long time. Until now, it seemed that none of them possessed monster-tier powers, only a few special abilities. And even among these not-so-stellar members, Shizuno was never shown to be the best. Even if her power is something that responds only to monster-tier players, it could've been hinted at earlier - appearing out of nowhere only bewilders readers.

Putting Shizuno aside, Awai is much, much weaker than expected. Although much of the manga is concerned with Saki's relationship with Teru, it's also about Kiyosumi as a whole, and Shiraitodai was hyped up and naturally expected to be Kiyosumi's final boss. After the underwhelming performances of the players aside from Teru, it was naturally to expect that Awai, supposedly Teru's successor, should be at least as powerful as, if not stronger than, Koromo at her best. But no. We are shown an Awai who is constantly beat up by all three schools. Awai is, admittedly, very powerful in many respects; however, it is hard for readers to be hyped up by, or be afraid of, a player who has been consistently undermined by three other players that had not been described as monster level.

Narrative-wise, it's hard to swallow that a school that had been severely defeated by Senriyama like a day or two before suddenly beats Shiraitodai with some hax explanations. Of course there's that all "stronger as a team" thing, but even that doesn't make sense with players of this much level of difference. Weren't even the weaker players from the other three schools supposed to be strong in terms of regional level? And yet they are picked apart by players with little background in mahjong, albeit with some training with a very hax coach. I'm more disappointed by Achiga vs. Senriyama/Shiraitodai as a whole than, say, the confounding development of Shizuno's individual powers, the explanation of which I await for in the translations.

Meta-narrative-wise, I am no longer as much hyped for finals, since I get this feeling that power levels aren't balanced anymore and anything can be changed by the author's wish. (Of course, this is true in reality, but to see it actually happen inside the narrative shatters the reliability and verisimilitude of the narrative itself) And I'm no longer scared by the prospect of facing Shiraitodai - Rinkai seems scarier, but then they might not be able to go to finals since they're a seeded and hyped school just like Eisui and Shiraitodai. And I feel less and less respect for the characters of Achiga, who seem to be frolicking around under the pretext of meeting their childhood friend and beating up the hardworking schools with plot armor.

Also, I was very disappointed by the lack of character development for almost all the members of Shindouji, as well as the lack of any actual display of ability on Ryuuka's part aside from that Toki hax. I also wish that Shizuno could've had more character development than "I will meet you at finals, Nodoka-san!" since it seems like she actually has some interesting powers.

Oh well. I will continue to read and enjoy Saki and any possible spinoffs, I guess.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:39   Link #3172
night_sentinel
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Well, we can also take Achiga-hen Semi-final round as the introduction to Shizu's power for the main manga.

If we look at it that way, it won't feel too force or won't feel asspull.
So the Achiga-hen is just a toolkit to show-off the powers. I can dig that. I just lost the ability to care for the story in Achiga-hen now anyway. At least the introduction of the powers will make Saki's match interesting.

I'm switching my support 100% for Side B, though.

@custardpie


If its any consolation, the main manga has yet to pull something like this or anything remotely close to this. And hey, this is the last chapter of Achiga-hen so no more sudden developments that sometimes makes no sense.

Last edited by night_sentinel; 2013-03-07 at 18:51.
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Old 2013-03-07, 18:45   Link #3173
Fragment off
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The thing is that almost evrything in the captain is feel forced, not only shizu's power.

Ryuuka was suposed to have ' some problem' against Awai before she had that power and have truly great pourcentage but could only win with it. What make up for it is her 'unseen' defensive play has she not once play in some one hand

Awai, a forshodowed monster was far to arogant and have a inflexing playing style. After seeing himeko and then The other could play past her Double Riichi , she should have wait for just before/after her Kan to declare it, and only if there aren't sign of the other comming (Doing that only once could have prevent her a 16 000 point loss ,taking the first place at the end)
Seriously she was scarier in the first half of the match

Shizu's power up felt forced , the tranlation may diminish that but before that chapter it already was, even if still in the limit . But the funiest thing, and the thing that redeem the whole end in my view, is the score , the Captains who are 1st an 2nd are the ones whith an Overall negative personal point. even Saki alway end up with a Positive personal score

I had always prefered Side-B , That chapter will just give me an other reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
And I think you seriously missed how strong the monkey is. I lol'ed so hard when people made the following reference.

Spoiler for size:


Keyword: Yoshino Mountain, En no Ozuno, Zao Gongen.
So I was right... Shizu is the montain ,Saki is the flower on top of it
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Last edited by Fragment off; 2013-03-07 at 18:54. Reason: Add the quote an the reaction to it
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Old 2013-03-07, 19:55   Link #3174
Marina2
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Somehow I feel what to reply to your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragment off View Post
But the funiest thing, and the thing that redeem the whole end in my view, is the score , the Captains who are 1st an 2nd are the ones whith an Overall negative personal point. even Saki alway end up with a Positive personal score
That is what we call teamplay. Result is based on how entire team doing in overall - not individual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragment off View Post
So I was right... Shizu is the montain ,Saki is the flower on top of it
When we says mountain, we mean a mountain itself and everything on it - tree, rock, grass, flower, etc. Do you think Saki, who is only a part of mountain, can do anything to the entire mountain? (I know Saki will win but I just want to discuss in this fun topic)
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:04   Link #3175
Fragment off
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Somehow I feel what to reply to your post.



That is what we call teamplay. Result is based on how entire team doing in overall - not individual.




When we says mountain, we mean a mountain itself and everything on it - tree, rock, grass, flower, etc. Do you think Saki, who is only a part of mountain, can do anything to the entire mountain? (I know Saki will win but I just want to discuss in this fun topic)
For the teamplay I am with you , I made the same comment earlier, What I am saying is that it made Achiga victory more believable

For the Flower and the montain, I have my Theory (and even made a little fanfic about it) The flower is there , at the top , no one see it , But inside the montain her Roots are everywhere and go deep down.
The montain look like the big thing but it would colapse without the Root of the flower at it top.
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:07   Link #3176
Flower
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Originally Posted by Fragment off View Post
...For the Flower and the mountain, I have my Theory...
Hmm?

Somebody call my name?

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Old 2013-03-07, 20:23   Link #3177
orangejuicetang
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Suddenly I feel like the only person who actually enjoyed reading Saki Achiga >.>
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:40   Link #3178
Requiem-x
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Don't worry, you're not alone, but DEAR LORD. I haven't seen such a "strong" response to something anime/manga related since episode 3 of Sword Art Online.

Did achiga get through because the plot said so? Well, duh, but we knew this a long time ago, so no point in beating up a dead horse. I'm just glad Shizu isn't a Nodoka clone who ends things in a boring way, and it's good to see she finally checks in Awai's radar... altough not in the sweetest way I guess Awai really likes to be in control.
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:44   Link #3179
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Suddenly I feel like the only person who actually enjoyed reading Saki Achiga >.>
Achiga on paper had no business making it to the Final. But y'know what? I'd just take the "results" as it is.
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:50   Link #3180
Myssa Rei
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I think it's more of a problem with how Shizu NOW compares to the Shizu who we saw raped hard by Koromo, and had to win off a mad scramble in the quarterlies due to her getting terrible hands. It's like we jumped several chapters in between in terms of competency, but now we're supposed to believe that she's always had an ability like this? Some people will have a hard time swallowing that.

I like Achiga's team of misfits, but I can see why this won't sit well with people. It feels like Shizu's been given an ability for the simple reason as to be a hard counter to Saki herself, as much as Awai is a hard counter to Saki.
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