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Old 2014-02-02, 21:09   Link #4541
tjalorak
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QF is one of my favorite matches though just because it is a lot of smart players playing well and adapting based on information re: others. But you're right. If you don't understand the mahjong / what's going on, it's really hard to appreciate just how strong and smart the players - and the match - is.

(By contrast, Achiga is a bunch of players just spamming their powers mindlessly and becoming confused if power spam doesn't lead to a win. :/ It's one of the reasons I wasn't impressed with most of the players in that game.)

RE: West -- I posted this elsewhere (speculation on West tiles for Saki).

Quote:
2. Saki was going to win on a West kan again a la Saki S1 ep. 1 and 2. I have to wonder if she has a slight affinity with West or whether itís Ritz herself unconsciously doing it. If itís the formerÖ If Iím not remembering wrong, thereís a slight connotation of death (not necessarily negative) and movement toward enlightenment. That raises some interesting questions what with her ability to *take tile / resurrect life from the dead wall* and burning wheelchairs, right?
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:16   Link #4542
Azure_yo
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Originally Posted by tjalorak View Post
QF is one of my favorite matches though just because it is a lot of smart players playing well and adapting based on information re: others. But you're right. If you don't understand the mahjong / what's going on, it's really hard to appreciate just how strong and smart the players - and the match - is.

(By contrast, Achiga is a bunch of players just spamming their powers mindlessly and becoming confused if power spam doesn't lead to a win. :/ It's one of the reasons I wasn't impressed with most of the players in that game.)
.
Yes that's the summary of it, maybe that's why the only match I'm impress on is Teru match, Teru and Kirame has a good head above their shoulder, well Toki is good but i don't think she is that smart, sorry, all the block she did base on her power/future data
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:19   Link #4543
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Originally Posted by Azure_yo View Post
Well it's true Saki is good but she still has weakness the same weakness Yuki had in prefectural tournament against Jun, just look at her match against Kyouko( just because Kyouko able to disturb one of her kan), and her opinion of Kyouko, i'm scare buchou ahemm, Too different from Yuki who already cure that weakness of her to the point she said "If this will disrupt my momentum then i don't need that kind of momentum to begin with, yes Yuki has grown up" to the point her opponent amaze at her "she able to complete her hand despite the disruption this is different from what i heard"
Wait a minute. Are we reading the same manga?



I would agree that historically fear is the best way to confuse or even undermine Saki, but after seeing her go into dark saki mode, umm. Well, I don't forsee many people able to really scare her any more... except maybe Teru? In dark saki mode (or I wonder if shinigami mode might work, too?) she has complete and total control of most everything it seems.

Of course this could just be me gushing. ^^
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:24   Link #4544
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Wait a minute. Are we reading the same manga?



I would agree that historically fear is the best way to confuse or even undermine Saki, but after seeing her go into dark saki mode, umm. Well, I don't forsee many people able to really scare her any more... except maybe Teru? In dark saki mode (or I wonder if shinigami mode might work, too?) she has complete and total control of most everything it seems.

Of course this could just be me gushing. ^^
Ikuno seemed to know a way to get around that, and she's clearly an underhanded one, so things might be harder for Saki than you imagine.
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:27   Link #4545
raincrow
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The flashiness/crazy occult stuff does pull in a lot of people initially. I remember the first time I saw Saki, I was like ok, mahjong? Don't know much about it, but the show looks like it has some yuri vibes, competitive women, so this might be ok...holy crap!!! Fire and lightning flying everywhere! Woo! I'm hooked. Now what the hell is a "riichi"...

I also think we haven't had a real 'hook' yet sub-plot wise. The first season we had Saki//Nodoka problems, Koromo as a boss, etc. So far in season two it's more of introducing and getting to know the new cast. I think when we see Hisa's breakdown/Hiroe gunning for her, Kyouko's threat to Saki, etc., then the real fun will fully be back. And of course when Teru enters the picture again.

In other words, the drama is building up slowly this time around. All the new characters and some of the powers/teams can cause some confusion as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if anime-only/casual viewers haven't been able to get into it yet.
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:56   Link #4546
Flower
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Originally Posted by Requiem-x View Post
Ikuno seemed to know a way to get around that, and she's clearly an underhanded one, so things might be harder for Saki than you imagine.
Not saying it will not be difficult for her... Kinda feel it will be another occasion for Saki to level up during the finals match.

But yeah, going solely by what we have seen fear still seems the best way. The first half of her match with Koromo shows that. In fact, if Koromo hadn't flipped Saki's switch by showing extra cruelty to Ikeda who knows what would have happened? When Saki encounters cruelty or injustice of some sort it brings something else out of her, it seems.

There have been plenty of ways to befuddle Saki, though - Hisa's idea for the straight zone in s1 of the anime being one of them. Even then Saki was able to work around those with detemination to win, and at the moment that determination allowed her to manifest dark saki mode.

Whether Ikuno's method will be to befuddle or to scare her remains to be seen still, though my hunch is on the befuddling.

Something tells me that Saki is going to be shaken to the core by something unexpected, though - maybe raw hatred from Teru for whatever happened in the past? - and it will really scare her, striking at a part of herself she has been unable and unwilling to face.

How all this will play out in the team match or the individuals yet i honestly do not know, though.
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Old 2014-02-02, 21:57   Link #4547
Azure_yo
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Wait a minute. Are we reading the same manga?



I would agree that historically fear is the best way to confuse or even undermine Saki, but after seeing her go into dark saki mode, umm. Well, I don't forsee many people able to really scare her any more... except maybe Teru? In dark saki mode (or I wonder if shinigami mode might work, too?) she has complete and total control of most everything it seems.

Of course this could just be me gushing. ^^
Yes we read the same manga, the reason i said it of course to the fact that Kyouko able to force her to enter Saki comfort zone(+/-0 without limit break/normal+/-0), That's why Saki dark mode in my opinion is the result of Saki want to be able to get +/-0 despite the pressure at least with that she still has some sort of control, after all Saki need to lost some point at that time to get normal +/- zero and at that time already South 3, in other word she need south 4 to achieve her goal, the chronology in my opinion:

1. Kyouko block Saki rinshan when she pon at that time where her kan tile land on Kasumi who of course keep it
2. Saki lost a bit of her confidence enter normal +/-0 mode
3. The match continue but Saki has more point than to break even, and she need to win to advance to the next match.
4. Saki decide to lost some point (point lose to enable her achieve her goal/win and +/-0), because at that time if Saki doesn't lost that point then the possibility she met her goal is close to zero), in other word if it's Miyamori or Ensui who won at that time maybe Saki won't meet her goal, because there's the possibility that Kasumi or Toyone might won on Ron, and if that person not Saki then it's meaningless, and even if it's her if they took more/less point than she can afford to lost to meet her goal(win &+/-0) is also meaningless.
5. So yes in my opinion to take control of that situation she must employ her absolute control, So that's why i understand why Saki said Kyouko is dangerous after all nobody is able to make her enter her comfort zone unless she want to yet, so even if what Kyouko did is coincidence she is able to invoke it that's that matter
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:03   Link #4548
Flower
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Fair enough.

To be honest I am not clear yet why Saki thought Kyouko the most potentially difficult opponent yet, so your take on it could very well be the case.

I guess the difference is in presupposition for entering dark saki mode. Yours is linked to a particular angle on the match coupled with a future projection centered around Kyouko, whereas mine is centered on Saki's determination to face her sisters team at the finals.

But hey, I could be wrong. ^^

Dangit Ritz! Why are you dragging this out! Argh!

Yes, yes, I know... partly for income purposes and all that, but still! XD
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:09   Link #4549
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Not saying it will not be difficult for her... Kinda feel it will be another occasion for Saki to level up during the finals match.

But yeah, going solely by what we have seen fear still seems the best way. The first half of her match with Koromo shows that. In fact, if Koromo hadn't flipped Saki's switch by showing extra cruelty to Ikeda who knows what would have happened? When Saki encounters cruelty or injustice of some sort it brings something else out of her, it seems.

There have been plenty of ways to befuddle Saki, though - Hisa's idea for the straight zone in s1 of the anime being one of them. Even then Saki was able to work around those with detemination to win, and at the moment that determination allowed her to manifest dark saki mode.

Whether Ikuno's method will be to befuddle or to scare her remains to be seen still, though my hunch is on the befuddling.

Something tells me that Saki is going to be shaken to the core by something unexpected, though - maybe raw hatred from Teru for whatever happened in the past? - and it will really scare her, striking at a part of herself she has been unable and unwilling to face.

How all this will play out in the team match or the individuals yet i honestly do not know, though.
I imagine it will be the mahjong equivalent of Saki slamming Kyoko in the ground repeatedly until she stops moving and throwing the corpse at Zennou's feet, but that's just me.

Dark, I know, but I've always believed Saki will have a big moment of darkness before the finals.

That being said, Hisa should also be coming up with a plan to help Saki, so maybe it will end up as a matter of seeing who's the smartest, sneakiest coach, and I'd definetly wouldn't mind. Always love a good two front battle.
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:12   Link #4550
raincrow
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Originally Posted by Flower View Post
Fair enough.

To be honest I am not clear yet why Saki thought Kyouko the most potentially difficult opponent yet, so your take on it could very well be the case.

I guess the difference is in presupposition for entering dark saki mode. Yours is linked to a particular angle on the match coupled with a future projection centered around Kyouko, whereas mine is centered on Saki's determination to face her sisters team at the finals.

But hey, I could be wrong. ^^

Dangit Ritz! Why are you dragging this out! Argh!

Yes, yes, I know... partly for income purposes and all that, but still! XD
So far it just seems her cautious nature makes her calculate things very well. For example, I think Kyouko is the only opponent so far to figure out Saki's plus/minus zero thing.
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:20   Link #4551
juventus95
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Originally Posted by mhazaru View Post
So far it just seems her cautious nature makes her calculate things very well. For example, I think Kyouko is the only opponent so far to figure out Saki's plus/minus zero thing.
I wonder how far Kyoko can create trouble for Saki in the semifinal match. Besides Saki, there are two bigger national level monsters and from all the hype built up, they're not easy opponents to deal with while executing her own plan to nullify Saki's Rinshan Kaiho.
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:23   Link #4552
teja208
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Originally Posted by mhazaru View Post
The flashiness/crazy occult stuff does pull in a lot of people initially. I remember the first time I saw Saki, I was like ok, mahjong? Don't know much about it, but the show looks like it has some yuri vibes, competitive women, so this might be ok...holy crap!!! Fire and lightning flying everywhere! Woo! I'm hooked. Now what the hell is a "riichi"...
Frankly I myself never play mahjong. I just research rules and watch few video clips and that all it takes to understand at least 70% or above regarding how character hex works and some of the players' line of thought. I am aware that same doesn't apply to every casual anime watchers which is why I'm particularly on edge about this season.

BTW, I like this episode's version of the puni plush ED.

Last edited by teja208; 2014-02-02 at 23:14.
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Old 2014-02-02, 22:25   Link #4553
tjalorak
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Originally Posted by Azure_yo View Post
Yes that's the summary of it, maybe that's why the only match I'm impress on is Teru match, Teru and Kirame has a good head above their shoulder, well Toki is good but i don't think she is that smart, sorry, all the block she did base on her power/future data
The Vice-Captain match was pretty good, aside from Seiko. The other three players were great. Mairu's probably one of my favorite players in Achiga. But then again, even the Vanguard match had Kuro there. I agree that Toki is good but heavily dependent on her power (also, not very strategic at all).

Re: Kyoko - She's not the most dangerous. Saki said she was the most resilient. I agree. Kyouko didn't give up and she kept trying and switching her tactics around to match changing conditions. That's another thing - Kyouko is adaptable and intelligent. Basically, she's another Yumi, no? Less leaps of intuition, but she makes up for it elsewhere with greater adaptability.
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Old 2014-02-03, 00:54   Link #4554
night_sentinel
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Originally Posted by tjalorak View Post
2. Saki was going to win on a West kan again a la Saki S1 ep. 1 and 2. I have to wonder if she has a slight affinity with West or whether it’s Ritz herself unconsciously doing it. If it’s the former… If I’m not remembering wrong, there’s a slight connotation of death (not necessarily negative) and movement toward enlightenment. That raises some interesting questions what with her ability to *take tile / resurrect life from the dead wall* and burning wheelchairs, right?

Sorry about not replying for a couple of weeks. ^^ I'll post my planned reply here as well.

West and Saki has a very interesting correlation. Saki more often than not is seated at the WEST SEAT. She also like calling kans using west tiles. Which is very interesting considering the association of that direction.

As Katreus have said. West is the direction of death. Its the direction associated with endings. Many myths say that the land of the dead lies on this direction. On the positive side, West is also associated with enlightenment. Remember "Journey to the West." Its also associated with some sort of "eternal reward". Heck, modern chronology goes with this. Remember Tolkien, The place where the ships that Frodo and the elves are going to - WEST. ^^

What's more interesting is in Japan, West is associated with the White Tiger. And guess who is the White Tiger in this story? lol If you guys need more symbolism. The white tiger is known to observe the world with clairvoyance; corresponds to the season fall, the color white, wind, the element metal, and the virtue righteousness

More interesting, according to the Chinese Annals of Wu and Yueh the origin of the white tiger is this. Three days after the burial of the king, the essence of the element metal assumed the shape of a white tiger and crouched down on the top of the grave. Here the tiger is a protector - a preserver.

... And the best part about all this? Despite Saki's association with West. Saki doesn't use it like Yuuki does. In most of Saki's match, she likes to plan her lost in that round.
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Old 2014-02-03, 00:59   Link #4555
Azure_yo
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Originally Posted by mhazaru View Post
The flashiness/crazy occult stuff does pull in a lot of people initially. I remember the first time I saw Saki, I was like ok, mahjong? Don't know much about it, but the show looks like it has some yuri vibes, competitive women, so this might be ok...holy crap!!! Fire and lightning flying everywhere! Woo! I'm hooked. Now what the hell is a "riichi"...
i don't know if you are asking or not but still i'll answer richii is declaring you are 1 tile a way from tenpai, a form of yaku, you can't win without yaku even though your hand complete, that's the reason when Ikena Kana in prefectural final didn't able to just call ron on those 6p(she can't call richii because she is 0 at that time) even though that will complete her hand , and thats why Saki offer her the opportunity to steal it through chankan,
at least that's what i understand, i'm only a beginner at mahjong because of Saki zenkoku hen lol
Also with richii you offer all your defense for greatest offense, there's several advantage of richii,like open ura dora, opportunity for ippatsu, and richi itself offer value, but when you are richii you are open to all attack (maybe like opening your armor in battle), lol

Last edited by Azure_yo; 2014-02-03 at 01:13.
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Old 2014-02-03, 01:16   Link #4556
Flower
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I think he was saying "now what is a riichi" as a continuation of his train of thought after being wowed by the mahou shoujo side to the mahjong play... at least that was how I read it originally, tho I could be wrong! ^^

One of the dangerous things about declaring riichi is that you must always discard the tile you select if it is not the winning tile.
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Old 2014-02-03, 01:37   Link #4557
raincrow
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Flower has got it Thanks though Azure! I'm definitely not an expert but I get enough of the basics to get by. I'm amazed at how some of you guys remember all the combos and calculate everything so well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juventus95 View Post
I wonder how far Kyoko can create trouble for Saki in the semifinal match. Besides Saki, there are two bigger national level monsters and from all the hype built up, they're not easy opponents to deal with while executing her own plan to nullify Saki's Rinshan Kaiho.
From a perspective of looking at everyone's powers, having someone who doesn't really have any, but is still very good, seems to be sort of an antithesis to Saki herself (or at least the antithesis to a monster occult player). Personally I think that's what Kyouko's role is. Will be really interesting if it's actually Himematsu that goes through.
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Old 2014-02-03, 12:15   Link #4558
Marina2
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Originally Posted by juventus95 View Post
I wonder how far Kyoko can create trouble for Saki in the semifinal match. Besides Saki, there are two bigger national level monsters and from all the hype built up, they're not easy opponents to deal with while executing her own plan to nullify Saki's Rinshan Kaiho.
From the start of series, Saki never afraid of a powerful monster player. What gave her the most troble are normal players who can somehow interupt her play like Yumi. Kyouko (and Shizuno in the final round) will be the same, I think.

I would say that If Kyouko aim to ruin Saki's play, it will create a lot of troble for Saki. How? that's what we have to wait to see.
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Old 2014-02-03, 12:57   Link #4559
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
What's more interesting is in Japan, West is associated with the White Tiger. And guess who is the White Tiger in this story? lol If you guys need more symbolism. The white tiger is known to observe the world with clairvoyance; corresponds to the season fall, the color white, wind, the element metal, and the virtue righteousness

More interesting, according to the Chinese Annals of Wu and Yueh the origin of the white tiger is this. Three days after the burial of the king, the essence of the element metal assumed the shape of a white tiger and crouched down on the top of the grave. Here the tiger is a protector - a preserver.

... And the best part about all this? Despite Saki's association with West. Saki doesn't use it like Yuuki does. In most of Saki's match, she likes to plan her lost in that round.
Saki isn'related to metal or the color white, though. And protector? That sounds more like Hisa to me.

Saki's association with the west in the table is an interesting point, though. Could that be something she could use in the semis? Kinda like how Hisa made Yuuki go from winning big to winning fast as a way to catch the opponent off guard and possibly counter Teru?
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Old 2014-02-03, 13:31   Link #4560
night_sentinel
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... Err... no... Saki isn't the white tiger.

Here I'll help jog your memory Req.
  • who has as a nickname of Torahime?
  • Has a whirlwind on her arm?
  • Depicted with a sword and mirror shield on her fantasy custom?
  • Wears a predominantly white uniform?
  • Has a power that lets her observe almost everything about her opponent?
  • Is closely associated with Saki?

^^
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