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Old 2012-07-08, 04:44   Link #1541
Myssa Rei
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Spoiler for Miyamori T_T:
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Old 2012-07-08, 04:47   Link #1542
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Spoiler for Miyamori T_T:
How do I read this? Left to right? Up down right down up?
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Old 2012-07-08, 04:48   Link #1543
kona~chan
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Originally Posted by Scarletknive View Post
Like I said before, if Kuro can't get Dora for a few rounds, then the Achigas must try to have more training before the finals so that Kuro can get back the Dora before the finals.

Also, having dora does make Teru easier to make her hand easily, but there is a need to consider some unneeded doras.

Example: If Teru has sanbaiman in that round, the next one is a yakuman. To make a Yakuman without a dora, it must have a 6 han chinitsu hand, tanyao, pinfu, riichi ippatsu, ryan pei kou and hmm... I need 1 more yaku... So with dora in place, she can just get a chinitsu, tanyao, dora 6
just add tsumo or haitei that will do.
but no, i doubt teru even need luck based yaku for her hand compositon
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Old 2012-07-08, 05:07   Link #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarletknive View Post
How do I read this? Left to right? Up down right down up?
right column up down, left column up down
like every 4koma...
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Old 2012-07-08, 05:34   Link #1545
tarajis
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In the finals, I just wish good luck to the two schools that are not Shiratodai and Kiyosumi... they'll need it to be this year's National Champion... a monster at the beginning and a monster at the end of the road courtesy of the Miyanagas...
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Old 2012-07-08, 06:45   Link #1546
azziz
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for those who know mahjong,can you explain me what was the weakness kuro and her team noticed in the first part of her match against teru(you know when they said it was the leeway a champion could aford):was it already used by kuro-with toki help-to win her 16600 pts or is it a foreshadowing that will come into play later,perhaps in final etheir by kuro or yuki?

since no one talk about it i guess it must be the former,but i hope it will be the latter,
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Old 2012-07-08, 06:52   Link #1547
night_sentinel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Slayer View Post
Spoiler for pic:


Maybe she was talking about the first day?
There seems to be something wrong with our translations or the individuals are being retconned.

This was the current translation that we have:
" Miyanaga Saki had neither a game she won nor loss, in all of her prefecture's individuals' games she got plus-minus zero. "

This statement directly contradicts what happened in the individuals. Its true that Saki was on a plus-minus zero streak but after Nodoka's lecture, she won all her games. So if we count getting a plus minus zero as a sort of draw - neither winning or losing, the statement Saki has no record of ever losing a game on official matches is true.

But, unless manga canon has a different set of people that won the individuals, Saki has records of games which she won. So its either a mistranslation or a partial retcon.

Personally, since I'm not fond of retcon, I think its either Ritz-sensei making a mistake or there is something wrong with the translation. Translation is an art after all and not a science so there's bound to be a few mistakes.

Since, Hiroe's advice is to study their opponent's losing games to gain insight. Its most likely that Suehara meant that she can't find any record of games wherein Saki ever lost which is true. On official records the closest the Saki ever lost a game is when she got a plus minus zero.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarletknive View Post
Like I said before, if Kuro can't get Dora for a few rounds, then the Achigas must try to have more training before the finals so that Kuro can get back the Dora before the finals.

Also, having dora does make Teru easier to make her hand easily, but there is a need to consider some unneeded doras.

Example: If Teru has sanbaiman in that round, the next one is a yakuman. To make a Yakuman without a dora, it must have a 6 han chinitsu hand, tanyao, pinfu, riichi ippatsu, ryan pei kou and hmm... I need 1 more yaku... So with dora in place, she can just get a chinitsu, tanyao, dora 6
On Kuro and her limitation. We don't really know what is Kuro's limitation on the dora exactly. If she discards it is said that she won't get any for several games. But, how are those games counted exactly?

Would it be counted as Scarletknive said on every games and Kuro's dora problem would be solve after doing a marathon practice session? Or does it count days between the games played? Who knows?

I think if Teru needs a yakuman she'll just make one of the special limit hands worth a yakuman than go the trouble of making a kazoe yakuman. Perhaps she'll make the nine gates hand that in the preview will hit Yuki.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tarajis View Post
In the finals, I just wish good luck to the two schools that are not Shiratodai and Kiyosumi... they'll need it to be this year's National Champion... a monster at the beginning and a monster at the end of the road courtesy of the Miyanagas...
Everyone in the interhigh should thank their lucky stars that Saki and Teru is actually on bad terms with one another because judging from how close the two was if whatever event that caused their rift didn't happen they would most likely be on the same team.

Spoiler for Pic related:
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Old 2012-07-08, 07:38   Link #1548
Qilin
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Originally Posted by azziz View Post
for those who know mahjong,can you explain me what was the weakness kuro and her team noticed in the first part of her match against teru(you know when they said it was the leeway a champion could aford):was it already used by kuro-with toki help-to win her 16600 pts or is it a foreshadowing that will come into play later,perhaps in final etheir by kuro or yuki?

since no one talk about it i guess it must be the former,but i hope it will be the latter,
Teru's limitation is that she is forced to score hands of increasing point value. She literally can't continue her winning streak if she can't come up with a higher scoring hand than the last. Because of that weakness, she is forced to overexert herself as her streaks get longer (i.e. take more risks) to come up with higher scoring hands as opposed to safe, low-scoring hands.

In the semi final match, Kuro was only able to ron off Teru thanks to her early riichi declaration. In normal situations, Teru probably wouldn't declare riichi if she didn't have to, but her point limitation forced her to do so to increase her hand's value.
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Old 2012-07-08, 07:42   Link #1549
Peanutbutter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
There seems to be something wrong with our translations or the individuals are being retconned.

This was the current translation that we have:
" Miyanaga Saki had neither a game she won nor loss, in all of her prefecture's individuals' games she got plus-minus zero. "

This statement directly contradicts what happened in the individuals. Its true that Saki was on a plus-minus zero streak but after Nodoka's lecture, she won all her games. So if we count getting a plus minus zero as a sort of draw - neither winning or losing, the statement Saki has no record of ever losing a game on official matches is true.

But, unless manga canon has a different set of people that won the individuals, Saki has records of games which she won. So its either a mistranslation or a partial retcon.

Personally, since I'm not fond of retcon, I think its either Ritz-sensei making a mistake or there is something wrong with the translation. Translation is an art after all and not a science so there's bound to be a few mistakes.

Since, Hiroe's advice is to study their opponent's losing games to gain insight. Its most likely that Suehara meant that she can't find any record of games wherein Saki ever lost which is true. On official records the closest the Saki ever lost a game is when she got a plus minus zero.
If I had to translate the Chinese sub to English for this, I'll put:

"Miyanaga Saki had games where she neither won nor lost. Like those continuous prefecture individual games where she got +-0."

The key word here is "all".
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Old 2012-07-08, 08:04   Link #1550
uis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
There seems to be something wrong with our translations or the individuals are being retconned.

This was the current translation that we have:
" Miyanaga Saki had neither a game she won nor loss, in all of her prefecture's individuals' games she got plus-minus zero. "

This statement directly contradicts what happened in the individuals. Its true that Saki was on a plus-minus zero streak but after Nodoka's lecture, she won all her games. So if we count getting a plus minus zero as a sort of draw - neither winning or losing, the statement Saki has no record of ever losing a game on official matches is true.

But, unless manga canon has a different set of people that won the individuals, Saki has records of games which she won. So its either a mistranslation or a partial retcon.

Personally, since I'm not fond of retcon, I think its either Ritz-sensei making a mistake or there is something wrong with the translation. Translation is an art after all and not a science so there's bound to be a few mistakes.

Since, Hiroe's advice is to study their opponent's losing games to gain insight. Its most likely that Suehara meant that she can't find any record of games wherein Saki ever lost which is true. On official records the closest the Saki ever lost a game is when she got a plus minus zero.

On Kuro and her limitation. We don't really know what is Kuro's limitation on the dora exactly. If she discards it is said that she won't get any for several games. But, how are those games counted exactly?

Would it be counted as Scarletknive said on every games and Kuro's dora problem would be solve after doing a marathon practice session? Or does it count days between the games played? Who knows?

I think if Teru needs a yakuman she'll just make one of the special limit hands worth a yakuman than go the trouble of making a kazoe yakuman. Perhaps she'll make the nine gates hand that in the preview will hit Yuki.
Oh well poor translator get lectured here... yeah he make a mistake before especially on Toki power Three little army but it actually Toki in third team player if not because her accel power...

Anyway we know translator mean that saki never lost in official tournament, and her game without win always plus minus 0. Just give translator a break already...

On Kuro limitation dora issue, i think they will coach by Kei again so Kuro can power up at least same with her sister that don't have penalty when drop hot tiles. This will make final more interesting...

And as Saki mention her sister Teru can make kokushi musou hand to steal saki closed kan... this show Teru able to make yakuman hand instead focus on kazoe yakuman hand...

Finally Churen Poto aka Nine Gates is Jindai favourite yaku not Teru lulz... the churen poto we seen in preview is Jindai not Teru...
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Old 2012-07-08, 08:17   Link #1551
azziz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Teru's limitation is that she is forced to score hands of increasing point value. She literally can't continue her winning streak if she can't come up with a higher scoring hand than the last. Because of that weakness, she is forced to overexert herself as her streaks get longer (i.e. take more risks) to come up with higher scoring hands as opposed to safe, low-scoring hands.

In the semi final match, Kuro was only able to ron off Teru thanks to her early riichi declaration. In normal situations, Teru probably wouldn't declare riichi if she didn't have to, but her point limitation forced her to do so to increase her hand's value.
thank you for taking the time to answear my foolish question;i was aware of teru limitation,but i tough it was something everyone else already knew about.
yet,ashiga talked of it like if they were the first to notice,even saying it's only because they had someone like kuro in their team they could see through it,since other were only saying thing like it was a "leeway" the high-school champion could afford so it doesn't really make sense to me,but as i said before,i know next to nothing in mahjong,so i'll believe you.
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Old 2012-07-08, 08:38   Link #1552
uis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Teru's limitation is that she is forced to score hands of increasing point value. She literally can't continue her winning streak if she can't come up with a higher scoring hand than the last. Because of that weakness, she is forced to overexert herself as her streaks get longer (i.e. take more risks) to come up with higher scoring hands as opposed to safe, low-scoring hands.

In the semi final match, Kuro was only able to ron off Teru thanks to her early riichi declaration. In normal situations, Teru probably wouldn't declare riichi if she didn't have to, but her point limitation forced her to do so to increase her hand's value.
Actually i am kinda agreed that Teru weakness but in that match Teru don't need riichi anyway to increase her hand value and she can wait for Kuro drop her 3 pin and she will get dealer haneman...

But with shoumakyou analysis in first hanchan Teru think Kuro can't drop dora after all but like Sukoya said "However, people surpass your expectations" and with Toki triple accel help, Kuro get win over Teru...

So to counter Teru, u need to do something that really different from ur playing style or awaken new power in battle like shounen anime/manga lol...
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Old 2012-07-08, 09:06   Link #1553
night_sentinel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
If I had to translate the Chinese sub to English for this, I'll put:

"Miyanaga Saki had games where she neither won nor lost. Like those continuous prefecture individual games where she got +-0."

The key word here is "all".
Wow. That was an easy fix. Thanks peanutbutter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uis View Post
Oh well poor translator get lectured here... yeah he make a mistake before especially on Toki power Three little army but it actually Toki in third team player if not because her accel power...

Anyway we know translator mean that saki never lost in official tournament, and her game without win always plus minus 0. Just give translator a break already...

On Kuro limitation dora issue, i think they will coach by Kei again so Kuro can power up at least same with her sister that don't have penalty when drop hot tiles. This will make final more interesting...

And as Saki mention her sister Teru can make kokushi musou hand to steal saki closed kan... this show Teru able to make yakuman hand instead focus on kazoe yakuman hand...

Finally Churen Poto aka Nine Gates is Jindai favourite yaku not Teru lulz... the churen poto we seen in preview is Jindai not Teru...

Oh... I meant no offense to whoever is the one who is translating the manga on /u/. In fact, I'm profoundly thankful to their speedy translations since I can't read basic Japanese without a lot of dictionaries and a helping of google translate. Here extra internet cookies for you whoever you are.

I think I just got defensive since the status of the individuals are in question considering many people already don't count it as canon due to the fact it was skipped in the manga. I'm really looking forward to it actually and hopefully this time Ritz-sensei can properly develop the individual arc which judging from the cameo's building up in Achiga-hen is already happening.

Yeah, I also think Teru will go more for the special limit hands than a counted yakuman. Though, Teru doing a kokushi musou hand is not out of the question judging from Saki's thought process. But, there is also evidence that Teru would do a nine gates judging from the special effects shown in the preview of Teru vs Yuuki.

In the preview there were eight mirrors behind Teru and then one appears behind Yuuki and then Teru does her attack animation which we presume she will ron Yuuki. Then, there is the fact that if we count how Teru's hand increase wherein the ninth consecutive win is a yakuman. It has a nice symmetry to it if the yakuman in question is nine gates or chuuren pooto. Of course this is all speculations and is subject to interpretation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by azziz View Post
yet,ashiga talked of it like if they were the first to notice,even saying it's only because they had someone like kuro in their team they could see through it,since other were only saying thing like it was a "leeway" the high-school champion could afford so it doesn't really make sense to me,but as i said before,i know next to nothing in mahjong,so i'll believe you.
Come to think of it, almost everyone must already be aware of Teru's limitation of needing to get a higher hand value to continue her consecutive wins. There must be no lack of records of Teru's game style or opponents studying it. Heck, the vanguard match demonstrated Senriyama and Shindouji being aware of Teru's game style.

I think most people who studied Teru's records can figure out Teru's weakness. Its probably referred as the "leeway a champion can afford" since Teru technically can afford having such a weakness.

In a fighting game, Teru hits harder the more she combos. Her weakness is the greater lag time/openings where you can counter her between each successive hits that she delivers. Unfortunately the weakness might as well not exist since Teru is still faster than you ( she can win in the 7th go around) even with lag time and has better defense even with riskier discards ( has an all seeing mirror which will know all your strategies unless you develop something new during the match itself).
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Old 2012-07-08, 09:37   Link #1554
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
In the preview there were eight mirrors behind Teru and then one appears behind Yuuki and then Teru does her attack animation which we presume she will ron Yuuki. Then, there is the fact that if we count how Teru's hand increase wherein the ninth consecutive win is a yakuman. It has a nice symmetry to it if the yakuman in question is nine gates or chuuren pooto. Of course this is all speculations and is subject to interpretation.
Not eight mirrors, but eight lanterns (possibly nine).

Coincidentally, chuuren pooto can also be referred to as the nine lanterns yakuman.
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Old 2012-07-08, 10:40   Link #1555
LeaD36
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9 lanterns, since each suit has 9 different numerical tiles
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Old 2012-07-08, 11:09   Link #1556
Stann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
There seems to be something wrong with our translations or the individuals are being retconned.

This was the current translation that we have:
" Miyanaga Saki had neither a game she won nor loss, in all of her prefecture's individuals' games she got plus-minus zero. "

This statement directly contradicts what happened in the individuals. Its true that Saki was on a plus-minus zero streak but after Nodoka's lecture, she won all her games. So if we count getting a plus minus zero as a sort of draw - neither winning or losing, the statement Saki has no record of ever losing a game on official matches is true.

But, unless manga canon has a different set of people that won the individuals, Saki has records of games which she won. So its either a mistranslation or a partial retcon.

Personally, since I'm not fond of retcon, I think its either Ritz-sensei making a mistake or there is something wrong with the translation. Translation is an art after all and not a science so there's bound to be a few mistakes.
Was the actual individual arc considered canon? I was under the impression that the arc was just filler and not actually confirmed by the author.

While I'm not fond of retcon either, if it's the author changing something the studio did I'm fine with it after all it's their story.

Also can someone explain to me how she managed to get +/- 0 two times in a row?

They started the first game with 99600 points and ended the second game with 109700. Isn't this at least +10 or am I missing something?

Last edited by Stann; 2012-07-08 at 11:25.
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Old 2012-07-08, 11:17   Link #1557
RJ TAYLER
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A world or two of hurt to the poor teams on the receiving end of that Qilin!
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Old 2012-07-08, 11:34   Link #1558
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About the individuals: It could be whoever said that did not look at all of Saki's records. Pure and simple.
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Old 2012-07-08, 12:03   Link #1559
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stann View Post
Was the actual individual arc considered canon? I was under the impression that the arc was just filler and not actually confirmed by the author.

While I'm not fond of retcon either, if it's the author changing something the studio did I'm fine with it after all it's their story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
About the individuals: It could be whoever said that did not look at all of Saki's records. Pure and simple.
See:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
If I had to translate the Chinese sub to English for this, I'll put:

"Miyanaga Saki had games where she neither won nor lost. Like those continuous prefecture individual games where she got +-0."

The key word here is "all".
It was a translation mistake. The anime individuals are confirmed canon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stann View Post
Also can someone explain to me how she managed to get +/- 0 two times in a row?

They started the first game with 99600 points and ended the second game with 109700. Isn't this at least +10 or am I missing something?
Saki gained +/- zero from a standard 30000 point match perspective. At the start of each 30000 point standard match, 5000 points are taken from each player to be reserved as an "uma", i.e. placement bonus. At the end of the game, the person in first place has those 20000 points added to their score.

Therefore, to earn +/- zero in a standard match, not only must you gain 5000 points from your starting position, but also not come in first.

The team matches of the Nationals tournament involves playing two hanchan (standard matches) for each round (Vanguard, Lieutenant, Center, Vice-Captain, Captain etc.). For the first Captain round hanchan, Saki won 5500 points. For the second hanchan match, Saki won 4600 points. The Plus/Minus score calculations always round to the nearest thousand (500 rounds down), so Saki basically won 5000 points from her starting position and got +/- 0 both times.
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Old 2012-07-08, 13:34   Link #1560
thenightsshadow
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Uma +30k/+10k/-10k/-30k once the game is over? Or am I thinking of something different?
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