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Old 2012-07-15, 06:20   Link #1641
Von Himmel
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I believe Achiga will come to the final solely because they don't seem to have any 'filler' member in their roster. Many schools seems to have at least 1-2 members that doesn't have any special power and doesn't do much, but Achiga doesn't seem to have it. It's like how Arata said it, the overall team ability of Achiga is pretty high.

Eventhough I said that.. I wonder how Ritz will do her manga if both Achiga and Kiyosumi go to the final. Would she make the final with two point of view from achiga and main manga? Or would she end the side story when Achiga reached the final and tell the final outcome in the main manga?

...oh and do you think Himematsu will finally have their revenge against Saki?
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Old 2012-07-15, 06:40   Link #1642
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post

...oh and do you think Himematsu will finally have their revenge against Saki?
They will probably retaliate and anger the demon and thus the demon will unleash her full wrath. No more holding back and no more miss +- zero. Only curb stomping them.

For most of Saki's winning in this match are all cheap hands that has full control of the points. Specially that last attack of her poor Toyone. After Kyouko won. She immediately ends the game like she doesn't care anymore and she has the "tanoshii" face
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:42   Link #1643
MarkS00N
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Eventhough I said that.. I wonder how Ritz will do her manga if both Achiga and Kiyosumi go to the final. Would she make the final with two point of view from achiga and main manga? Or would she end the side story when Achiga reached the final and tell the final outcome in the main manga?
I don't think Ritz will change her style...
So far, each time Demon in Saki (Saki, Koromo, Teru, and Jindai) play Mahjong and in winning streak, her inner though never been written and I don't see it will be different for the final...
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Old 2012-07-15, 07:57   Link #1644
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I don't think Ritz will change her style...
So far, each time Demon in Saki (Saki, Koromo, Teru, and Jindai) play Mahjong and in winning streak, her inner though never been written and I don't see it will be different for the final...
My problem is that if both of them are in final, that would mean both manga events in it should happen at the same time since both teams are in final. For example: Achiga chapters consist of Kuro trying to fight her way against Teru and tacos, and at the same time the main manga will consist of tacos trying to fight against Teru and Kuro. If Ritz want to avoid spoiler on the match, both manga should have both events at the same progress...

However, achiga manga usually has more pages than the main manga so I don't think Ritz will do it like that.
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Old 2012-07-15, 08:08   Link #1645
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
My problem is that if both of them are in final, that would mean both manga events in it should happen at the same time since both teams are in final. For example: Achiga chapters consist of Kuro trying to fight her way against Teru and tacos, and at the same time the main manga will consist of tacos trying to fight against Teru and Kuro. If Ritz want to avoid spoiler on the match, both manga should have both events at the same progress...

However, achiga manga usually has more pages than the main manga so I don't think Ritz will do it like that.
Huh. I was under the impression that the Achiga spin-off would end right before the finals regardless of whether Achiga wins or loses the semis.
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Old 2012-07-15, 09:07   Link #1646
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I think that's what many expect, the last chapter showing the start of the finals, then cue fade to black, as the main series will then take over... Which might be YEARS away.
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Old 2012-07-15, 11:39   Link #1647
dingmajiao
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Originally Posted by MarkS00N View Post
You've got to remember that their coach, the one they daily train with, is a pro or at least in a pro level.
And so does Senriyama and I believe a bunch of girls who rank top in a top mahjong school, with pro level training for 1-2 years already would be better than a bunch of girls who just come together to form a team for less than 3 months even if they have pro level training..

And it could easily been that Senriyama was looking out to see how good Achiga/Kentani while studying them instead of trying to impress instead..

Izumi was targeting Yuu's weakpoint until she realised that she gets all red tiles and she stopped targeting and we saw nothing next.. Could she be actually trying to work out something for data collection for FunaQ?

Sera doesn't seem like she was trying to stop Ako.. She seems like she wants to compete to see who can get most points off the other 2 schools..

FunaQ was analyzing Arata the entire match which is why she wasn't even trying to win..

Ryuuka looks aa smart girl amd with the game in the bag, she might be just hastening the game..

What were Achiga before the tournament? Nothing and then came up with 5 members to form a team..
What were Senriyama? Top 2 school nationwide, with the same cast and Toki being a new addition.

I just can't see how Achiga is of the same level as Senriyama.. If they are, I'm going to grab X number of friends or friend's friend and ask a pro to train us, play some training matches with some top teams and enter the national competition in the sport and I'll likely get into at least the semi-finals.. (You get my logic)

Achiga's a good team.. They are good enough to be best 16 and nearly miss out on the best 8.. But are they the best 4 team in whole of Japan?
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Old 2012-07-15, 12:20   Link #1648
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higa's a good team.. They are good enough to be best 16 and nearly miss out on the best 8.. But are they the best 4 team in whole of Japan?
For now, they aren't. They still got decimated in their last match against Senriyama so we still could say that they're not the best 4 yet. But there's also a possibility that as a team, they could be the best 4. I couldn't see other Senriyama's abilities because Toki had already collected too much points and the other doesn't seem all that serious when fighting them too because of it .

Akado pro is the only one since 10 years(?) ago that actually managed to get points more than Haneman to Sukoyan. That alone makes her a whole different level as a pro compared to the others..it's just that perhaps because she was often overshadowed and the main focus of the side story is not about her, people doesn't seem to think too highly of her

What I want to say is that 3 months of intensive training from her ---which we can see that everyday they seem to train until night--- is probably on par with those who have pro level training for 1-2 years. It's still a possibility, which will might be true if they managed to defeat Senriyama by combining their abilities. They're still pretty weak when fighting against someone with special abilities though..

..btw, how does one train in mahjong anyway? I could only think of training your tile efficiency, but the girls in Saki doesn't seem to have that kind of problem where they couldn't get tenpai because of bad discard.
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Old 2012-07-15, 12:52   Link #1649
dingmajiao
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Akado pro is the only one since 10 years(?) ago that actually managed to get points more than Haneman to Sukoyan. That alone makes her a whole different level as a pro compared to the others..it's just that perhaps because she was often overshadowed and the main focus of the side story is not about her, people doesn't seem to think too highly of her
I'm a huge fan of Akado.. She said that Achiga doesn't have a player who's better than her (before her semi-finals defeat) and I believe she is an ace.. Not monster class type, but an ace.. One that you can bank on winning you points when you need them badly..

The thing is Achiga have no such player.. They have players who are really good but not really ace-type.. Ako is close or maybe have the potential to be one but she isn't and haven't become one..

Now let's say they are as good as most top school out there.. Who will win?? Easily, it'll be the team with more ace-calibre player.. If Achiga actually have an ace-like player like Akado, I think I would kind of accept them having a chance at running for best 4..

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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
..btw, how does one train in mahjong anyway? I could only think of training your tile efficiency, but the girls in Saki doesn't seem to have that kind of problem where they couldn't get tenpai because of bad discard.
Here's some I can think off my head.. Tile efficiency like you mention, discard reading, possibility and flexibility of hands, gaining of experience..


P.S. It's so damn interesting talking about mahjong.. Damn you Ritz and you holy monthly breaks.. -.-'
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Old 2012-07-15, 12:59   Link #1650
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Achiga's a good team.. They are good enough to be best 16 and nearly miss out on the best 8.. But are they the best 4 team in whole of Japan?
Well an elimination style tournament won't really tell you that. If you actually wanted to see which are the best you would have to use something like a double round robin or a swiss style tournament. Or outright make a throughout league.
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Old 2012-07-15, 13:03   Link #1651
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Originally Posted by dingmajiao View Post

What were Achiga before the tournament? Nothing and then came up with 5 members to form a team..
What were Senriyama? Top 2 school nationwide, with the same cast and Toki being a new addition.


Achiga's a good team.. They are good enough to be best 16 and nearly miss out on the best 8.. But are they the best 4 team in whole of Japan?
I don't think that we should consider Senriyama as the top 2 team in the current tournament. In the previous tournament, they placed 4th in the final rankings which is why they are the 4th seed. Senriyama's second place was due to the mysterious "spring" tournament where Toki joined Senriyama's roster allowing them to bump up to second.

If we assume that there is 2 high school team tournaments per year- the current one and the mysterious spring tournament ( which I believe brings a roster change since seniors are graduating and might not be eligible to participate.)

But, come the current timeline where there is an influx of freshman and transferees. And all the other seeded teams seems to have leveled up.

Eisui - the manga implies that the other mikos' sans Jindai are newly transferred this year because Jindai pushed herself hard the previous year to the point of endangering her health. Thus all the branch families sent representative this year to ease Jindai's burden.

Rinkai - Rinkai has a star-studded line-up this year. In fact beside Megan and perhaps Satoha - the 3 other members of their roster are new and have ridiculous credentials.

Senriyama - Beside their first year sergeant they probably haven't changed their roster from the spring tournament.

So assuming that in the spring tournament, with Eisui having only Jindai, Rinkai only having Satoha and Megan and Senriyama having all their roster unchanged except for their first year sergeant. Then, the ranking is like this:

1. Shiraitodai
2. Senriyama
3-4 Rinkai/Eisui

But, come the current timeline from what we know of the seeded team's roster it would more or less look like this:

1. Shiraitodai
2. Rinkai
3. Eisui
4. Senriyama

Note: This just takes in consideration the seeded teams ranking against each other, I'm sure some would argue that Miyamori and even Himematsu can take on Senriyama for the 4th place.



Though, I agree with the statement that Achiga cannot be considered as one of the best 4 team in the whole of Japan. There is a very good chance that Achiga would be beaten by any of the team that was fighting with Kiyosumi in the quarterfinals. In my opinion, Miyamori, Eisui and even Himematsu will beat Achiga handily.

To be honest, I'm thinking that the draws are skewed with Side B getting the hardest teams. The Quarter finals of Block C is in hell mode difficulty and probably the hardest one in all the quarterfinal match that happened this year. The match involved the 3rd seed Eisui, Himematsu (which is implied to be 5th in rank), Miyamori ( who is a bundle of hidden surprises and who also defeated a team that has a 6th placer for the individual) and Kiyosumi (who defeated Ryuumonbucchi and finished their preliminary national match without their captain and vice-captain). Just getting 2nd place in that match is insanely hard.
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Old 2012-07-15, 13:16   Link #1652
dingmajiao
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Well an elimination style tournament won't really tell you that. If you actually wanted to see which are the best you would have to use something like a double round robin or a swiss style tournament. Or outright make a throughout league.
Agree with you.. But I don't think Achiga's is so close to Senriyama that they can upset them that easily.. In normal mahjong, luck plays a big part and I would say it's possible but not in Saki mahjong..

Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
To be honest, I'm thinking that the draws are skewed with Side B getting the hardest teams.
I was thinking about that too.. Either that or Ritz didn't bother to develop any team from the side-A block.. But I think Shindouji will be getting some huge development.. After all, their sergeant was a sacrificial pawn...

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Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Though, I agree with the statement that Achiga cannot be considered as one of the best 4 team in the whole of Japan. There is a very good chance that Achiga would be beaten by any of the team that was fighting with Kiyosumi in the quarterfinals. In my opinion, Miyamori, Eisui and even Himematsu will beat Achiga handily.
Same here, if Sae isn't there to block Hatsumi, I'm pretty sure that Eisui will end up top in that 4.

Here's my top 5 before Kiyo's emergence
1) Shiraitodai
2) Rinkai
3) Senriyama
4) Eisui
5) Himematsu

I think Senriyama's been underrated by people because the rest of their members didn't blowout the rest of the team after Toki's dominance..

I'll place Kiyosumi around 3~5 place because I don't think they are as star-studded as the top 2..
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Old 2012-07-15, 18:28   Link #1653
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Chalk me to being another reader who thinks, at this point, Achiga isn't quite at the level of some of the teams of Side B yet (they have the possibility to become one though -- look at Himematsu, which is composed solely of normals). While they likely have a high competency average (with only Kuro really having a glaring weakness), they don't have a good counter against players with probability-bending abilities or plain lesbian hax. It should be telling for example how Yumi (who has foresight and experience instead), a girl who has no special abilities, managed to work around the abilities of the two members of Achiga who have them.

Pluck and determination are all well and good, but it won't help when you're butting your head literally at a stone wall (any of the named monsters in the tourney). A good strategy will help against instances like those, and the latter is what Achiga really needs.
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Old 2012-07-15, 21:46   Link #1654
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So, are we debating which is more likely to come to final or which is more worthy to come to final?
Because the first one will have Achiga as the answer while the later will have Senriyama as the most likely answer (though I will argue Shindouji has more potential than Senriyama)...

In my opinion, skill won't be the deciding factor...
It is up to the demon player, as I've said, to choose who will come with them to the next round, much like Saki choose Himematsu instead of Eisui...
Also, there are still 2 things to remember:
1) Shindouji's best player hasn't played yet...
2) We don't know what Achiga's improvements are... (This mostly because Teru is too powerful at the time)

Also top five without Kiyosumi for me:
1) Shiraitodai
2) Eisui
3) Rinkai
4) Miyamori
5) Senriyama (Or Shodouji depend on the their later player)

Himematsu is full with skilled player, but Miyamori has Toyone and if it isn't because of Saki, Himematsu won't advance...
Well, we'll still need to see what power-up Himematsu will get...
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Old 2012-07-15, 23:54   Link #1655
night_sentinel
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Originally Posted by dingmajiao View Post

Here's my top 5 before Kiyo's emergence
1) Shiraitodai
2) Rinkai
3) Senriyama
4) Eisui
5) Himematsu

I think Senriyama's been underrated by people because the rest of their members didn't blowout the rest of the team after Toki's dominance..

I'll place Kiyosumi around 3~5 place because I don't think they are as star-studded as the top 2..
Ok, I admit that there is a possibility that I'm underrating Senriyama. But, judging from the abilities they have shown in the quarterfinal match that they have with Achiga - a lot of teams can take them. But, then again since they're far in the lead at that match Senriyama might be taking it easy and haven't shown they're true capabilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
For now, they aren't. They still got decimated in their last match against Senriyama so we still could say that they're not the best 4 yet. But there's also a possibility that as a team, they could be the best 4. I couldn't see other Senriyama's abilities because Toki had already collected too much points and the other doesn't seem all that serious when fighting them too because of it .
Even if Achiga is on par with Senriyama assuming Senriyama have already shown its true strength, I don't think it means that Achiga can be considered to be in the top 4 rank. There's some ridiculous teams in the current tournament. My top 4 would be Shiraitodai, Rinkai, Kiyosumi, Eisui (not in any order).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Akado pro is the only one since 10 years(?) ago that actually managed to get points more than Haneman to Sukoyan. That alone makes her a whole different level as a pro compared to the others..it's just that perhaps because she was often overshadowed and the main focus of the side story is not about her, people doesn't seem to think too highly of her

What I want to say is that 3 months of intensive training from her ---which we can see that everyday they seem to train until night--- is probably on par with those who have pro level training for 1-2 years. It's still a possibility, which will might be true if they managed to defeat Senriyama by combining their abilities. They're still pretty weak when fighting against someone with special abilities though..
Huh? I think Akado was the first one to get more than a Haneman to Sukoyan not the only one. And besides, just because Akado managed to ron Sukoyan doesn't mean she's that strong. Its not a very good evidence especially with what happened in the recent vanguard match with Kuro being able to ron Teru.

Though, I'm a bit curious what happened in that match, it seems like Sukoyan dealt into Akado's hand for more than a Haneman but then how come it was Akado that was traumatized?

Perhaps Akado's situation was analogous to Kuro's situation with Teru wherein Sukoyan was so far ahead that even when she dealt into a large value hand it hardly made a dent om her lead?

I do admit there has been some evidence that Akado might be a good pro since she was scouted and considered the ace of a team in the pro leagues. But to say that Akado was a whole new level even in the world of pros seems to be a stretch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS00N View Post
In my opinion, skill won't be the deciding factor...
It is up to the demon player, as I've said, to choose who will come with them to the next round, much like Saki choose Himematsu instead of Eisui...
Sigh... judging with what happened in Side B... this is a high possibility. Shiraitodai with their ridiculous lead can just choose which team that will go with them in the finals.

Technically, it is Shiraitodai's best interest to choose the weaker school. But, then again they might not considering their captain complains about how weak their opponents is - they might want a challenge.
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Old 2012-07-16, 04:42   Link #1656
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Huh? I think Akado was the first one to get more than a Haneman to Sukoyan not the only one. And besides, just because Akado managed to ron Sukoyan doesn't mean she's that strong. Its not a very good evidence especially with what happened in the recent vanguard match with Kuro being able to ron Teru.
I think she's the only one who made her dealt in with score higher than haneman if she has that strong impression towards Akado. You also need to consider that she did it alone, unlike Kuro who got helped by Toki (who can see the future) by calling the tiles and changing the draw order. Considering how she was saying that Akado exceeded her expectation, maybe her playstyle is similar to Teru who analyzed her opponents ability and then destroy them.

Quote:
Perhaps Akado's situation was analogous to Kuro's situation with Teru wherein Sukoyan was so far ahead that even when she dealt into a large value hand it hardly made a dent om her lead?
I think I've heard somewhere before that Akado had thought that she could beat her in the beginning, but then she became monster-like at the end like what Saki usually do. There's a probability that she dealt in when Sukoyan she's warming up...or maybe Akado was traumatized because after she hit her with that high score, Sukoyan starts to be more scary ._.

Quote:
Even if Achiga is on par with Senriyama assuming Senriyama have already shown its true strength, I don't think it means that Achiga can be considered to be in the top 4 rank. There's some ridiculous teams in the current tournament
They have potential though Two people with special abilities (Maybe Shizu will develop some of it too? Like plot armor hax by not giving up or something w. Seriously though, that moment in the anime where both of her eyes glowing was a bit scary since most monster like Saki or Teru just usually has one ), and the other players are pretty competent too.
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Old 2012-07-16, 05:59   Link #1657
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
I think I've heard somewhere before that Akado had thought that she could beat her in the beginning, but then she became monster-like at the end like what Saki usually do. There's a probability that she dealt in when Sukoyan she's warming up...or maybe Akado was traumatized because after she hit her with that high score, Sukoyan starts to be more scary ._.
I was thinking along the same line as well. I'm not surprise if that were the case with Sukoya being the monster she portrayed to be. I think the differences between skilled players and monsters are not only their powers but also their mental issues. Monsters are more hex in terms of their abilities but they are prone to becoming psychologically unstable because of how they were raise or experienced some form of trauma in the past. For example both Koromo and Saki past weren't all sunshine and rainbow. Jindai also had to bear as many as 7-8 divine beings or something. Teru denies she had a sister also hints that she had some issues with her past with Saki. Toki was in the third team before and gained her future seeing power after she got hospitalize probably because Toki herself wishes to become stronger for her team and able to go to the national together with her wife. Kuro is another example but the one with an exploitable weakness. Skilled players e.g. Yumi, Hisa, Nodoka OTOH are not only more defensive and/or flexible in their play style but are also more psychologically stable.
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Old 2012-07-16, 19:29   Link #1658
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By the way, in which chapter was the Spring Tourney first mentioned? I thought there were technically only two tourney seasons -- Summer and Winter, where the latter saw a change of the guard as the seniors had to retire (we see this in a lot of other shows or media).
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Old 2012-07-17, 06:44   Link #1659
dingmajiao
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
By the way, in which chapter was the Spring Tourney first mentioned? I thought there were technically only two tourney seasons -- Summer and Winter, where the latter saw a change of the guard as the seniors had to retire (we see this in a lot of other shows or media).
I would guess there are 4 tourney seasons, winter, spring, summer and autumn.. I think each have their own specialty with spring being the biggest tourney of the 4..

But the one that I can recall being mentioned was the summer and spring.. (when Nodoka asked of Saki what's her sister's name)
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Old 2012-07-17, 15:02   Link #1660
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
By the way, in which chapter was the Spring Tourney first mentioned? I thought there were technically only two tourney seasons -- Summer and Winter, where the latter saw a change of the guard as the seniors had to retire (we see this in a lot of other shows or media).
Spring tourney was mentioned on Saki Achiga hen chapter 7 pg. 42 in conjunction with Senriyama's splendid performance. This was the specific tourney that allowed them to bump in number 2.

On Saki manga, there has been mentions here and there of the spring tournament. The one that I remember is on Saki chapter 80 (outcome) pg. 7 where Hisa mentioned Hiroe playing consistently well in the last year's interhigh and spring tournament.

Then there is another mention of a tournament this time on fall/Autumn. Reference on Saki chapter 83 pg. 8 wherein it is said that this tourney will bring a change in line-up due to the seniors graduating.

I believe there are two big tourneys for high school in Saki-verse like other sports manga.

The first tournament is the prefecture tournament and the Inter high tournament which happens at the tail end of Spring to Summer.

The second tournament is probably the Fall tournament (which might be the qualifier for the Spring tournament) and the Spring tournament itself.

I believe the Spring tournament is a very late Winter tournament equivalent in other sport genre since both tourneys are supposed to bring a change in line-up due to the seniors graduation.
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