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Old 2009-04-13, 23:00   Link #181
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
This seems to be better news...No one piece this week but we get one piece next week, then Golden week after that. At least Bleach and Naruto continues for the next two weeks.

Appreciate the info Kari-no-sugata.

Uh, I mentioned the same info a couple of pages back.... but yeah, OP's taking an early break this week. I suppose it's due to Oda having his hands tied with movie 10.....



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Originally Posted by gencbiba View Post
Completely irrelevant to the chapter discussion, but what would happen if Rob Lucci joined Luffy's crew? *dreams*

While I highly doubt that Lucci would join up with Luffy's crew, the events of the recent ministory certainly could mean a possible alliance between the Straw-Hats and the (former) CP9 in the future. I mentioned this in a past thread, but I think that the disgraced assassins might be forced to become pirates now that they're targeted by the government, thanks to Spandam and his dad.



....And I'm still waiting for the appearance of those Rokushiki masters. Oda disappointedly skipped out on the perfect opportunity to introduce us to them in the ministory, so hopefully he'll introduce them as major antagonists in a future storyline instead. Maybe they'll turn out to be those two guys who accompanied Spandine to Ohara all those years ago.....?
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Old 2009-04-13, 23:04   Link #182
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Uh, I mentioned the same info a couple of pages back.... but yeah, OP's taking an early break this week. I suppose it's due to Oda having his hands tied with movie 10.....
Ah, my bad MarvelB, and I usually look for your posts for that very reason too.

Thanks!
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Old 2009-04-13, 23:25   Link #183
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
While I highly doubt that Lucci would join up with Luffy's crew, the events of the recent ministory certainly could mean a possible alliance between the Straw-Hats and the (former) CP9 in the future. I mentioned this in a past thread, but I think that the disgraced assassins might be forced to become pirates now that they're targeted by the government, thanks to Spandam and his dad.
Pirates or revolutionaries. It depends on what their feelings are toawrds the government right now. If they hate the government, then I could see them becoming revolutionaries (not necessarily joining Dragon). But, if they wish to live a more carefree (as carefree as a criminal can get) lifestyle, they will probably become pirates.
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Old 2009-04-14, 00:17   Link #184
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C-C-C-Combo Breaker!!
I see you've played your fair share of "Killer Instinct". SUPREME VICTORY!!

marvelB, I believe you mentioned the possibility of Hancock helping Luffy out if he is to go outside and encounter the vice admirals in an attempt to retrieve Ace. But, do you really think this scenario is plausible? There are 5 vice admirals outside (it's unknown if Momonga is amongst them as you said) and she is currently with Momonga. If she even dares to assist Luffy in any way and they witness such an action, then she could say goodbye to her shichibukai status. The question is, do you feel that she would be willing to have her status revoked for the sake of helping out Luffy, despite the fact that she has explicitly stated she would like to keep it? One thing is certain, severe consequences (i.e. the treaty will be broken and she and her people will be hunted by the marines) await her if she does get caught helping Luffy.
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Old 2009-04-14, 02:33   Link #185
Keroko
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We don't know why Dragon is the most wanted man in the world. We know it is not for strength, He could be feared because he has info on how to build pluton in his back pocket. Or it could be a major part of he aims to over throw the WG.
You say 'we know it's not for strength' but where has this been stated? And we have been told why he is the most wanted man. Way back in chapter 432. It's because he's fighting the World Government.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Dragon aims are to over throw the WG, not send the world into chaos going off of what we know.
And the WG and Marines believe that overthrowing the WG will send the world into chaos. Besides, a major change in a worlds governing body will create chaos.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Don't mean he has the power to do so. Which is what I'm stressing here in this thread.
Uhm... considering he's been pretty successful so far (we've only heard about his victories, but never his losses) I really don't see how you're going to support that claim.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
The one that is apart of the World Powers (Whitebeard Pirates) that is going to engage you, rather then the threat (Dargon & gender bender friends) who is not strong enough to be apart of the World Powers, who won't head on engage you.
You seem to turn Dragon not being a part of the World Powers into 'Dragon isn't strong enough to join the World Powers.' This is a flawed logic, as Dragon is not part of the World Powers because he chooses to fight against them. This in no way makes him weak.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
I was not debating Dragons personal strength is not top tier. I was debating that the strength of the Dragon's revolutionary army is not above the Whitebeard Pirates.
So far we have not yet heard of a single defeat that army suffered. Every time the Revolutionary Army was mentioned they mentioned how many countries it had liberated. Last time we saw Dragon it was when he was getting a report that his army had won yet another battle.

Like I said, debating the difference in strength between these two is useless because we don't know what either party is capable off. Saying the Whitebeard pirates are stronger is just as ridiculous as me saying the Revolutionary Army is stronger.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
With the current Data Whitebeard Pirates > Dragons army.
Really? How so?

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
I never said the WG would ignore Dragon, They will take good care of him of he makes a move.
He's making a move. In fact, he's been doing so for quite some time. They still haven't 'taken good care of him' yet. If anything that increases Dragon's potential strength, not negate it.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
One of Whitebeard's titles "Strongest man in the world."

Dragon's "most wanted man in the world."

When it comes down to strength, Whitebeard > Dragon.

When it comes down to threat/being a criminal Dragon > Whitebeard.

I don't think I ever disagreed with that.
But you expand that to his army. Your assumption is that because Whitebeard is the strongest man, his crew automatically must be the strongest as well. I don't see how this analysis flies.
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Old 2009-04-14, 03:29   Link #186
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You say 'we know it's not for strength' but where has this been stated? And we have been told why he is the most wanted man. Way back in chapter 432. It's because he's fighting the World Government.
Following this logic to its natural conclusion, Dragon would also be, or at least become, enemies with the entire 3 Party System. So, both the Yonkou and the Shichibukai will become enemies for his world changing revolution.
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Old 2009-04-14, 04:12   Link #187
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Whitebeard > Dragon
Whitebeard Pirates (with WB) ?? Revolution Army
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Old 2009-04-14, 04:21   Link #188
Keroko
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Following this logic to its natural conclusion, Dragon would also be, or at least become, enemies with the entire 3 Party System. So, both the Yonkou and the Shichibukai will become enemies for his world changing revolution.
He will certainly become an enemy of the Shichibukai, as the Shichibukai rely on the World Government for their title. The Yonkou are pirates, they prey on villages and have no allegiance except to themselves, so they will undoubtedly attack Dragon's villages just as they would any other.

The difference between the WG/Shichibukai and the Yonkou is that the former are direct enemies. They need to fight eachother to achieve their respective goals. The Yonkou have no such obligation, and can avoid Dragon's lands if they wish.

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Whitebeard > Dragon
Whitebeard Pirates (with WB) ?? Revolution Army
Pretty much.
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Old 2009-04-14, 04:49   Link #189
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We don't know what Dragon wants. Whenever Yonkou or Shichibukai are a threat to him, and possible enemies won't mean that he has to want them destroyed like WG. He might have a plan to eighter destroy them or take them to his side.
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Old 2009-04-14, 06:39   Link #190
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Oh, we know what he wants. The destruction of the World Government. We just don't know why.

This is also why the Shichibukai are automatically his enemy. The Shichibukai title is dependent on the World Government. No World Government, no Shichibukai.
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Old 2009-04-14, 06:50   Link #191
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, we know what he wants. The destruction of the World Government. We just don't know why.

This is also why the Shichibukai are automatically his enemy. The Shichibukai title is dependent on the World Government. No World Government, no Shichibukai.
Right, we don't know why, but we don't know exactly "how" too. He somehow takes control over or frees cities/islands, but we don't know much about the process, like how did Iwa saved many islands.

The thing with Shichibukai is that they are using WG or are afraid of it.
Boa is a Shichibukai because otherwise WG could attack her people, and WG is the only one that is able to get there (so no help would come).
Don Flamingo and Blackbeard (like Crocodile before) is planing something on the side while using WG as a shield.
Mihawk is using his title just so he can fight boredom.

If Dragon gave Shichibukai a diffrent way of maintaining the things they gain from WG, then he wouldn't have to fight them.
If there were no WG, Hancock wouldn't have to even be a Shichibukai.
I believe that Mihawk lost his purpose in life a little after becoming the strongest sworldman, because there is bearly a challange for him, and Drago could give him a new purpose.

However evil guys like Blackbeard or DonFlamingo wouldn't be that easy to work with, but maybe Dragon could pull it off.
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Old 2009-04-14, 07:00   Link #192
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Do we really know, that this is what he really wants? Or is it just what the WG told the people that it's this he is aiming for?
Considering we're seen people reporting to him how their rebel forces have freed another country and that his personal compatriot says the exact same thing as the World Government... I'd say yes.

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Originally Posted by Wolcik View Post
Right, we don't know why, but we don't know exactly "how" too. He somehow takes control over or frees cities/islands, but we don't know much about the process, like how did Iwa saved many islands.
True, we can only theorize. We've seen an officer giving reports to him about rebel armies being successful, and his reputation as 'the man behind all revolutions' makes an easy theory that he is adept at using popular support using the D's mysterious ability to inspire.

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The thing with Shichibukai is that they are using WG or are afraid of it.
Boa is a Shichibukai because otherwise WG could attack her people, and WG is the only one that is able to get there (so no help would come).
Don Flamingo and Blackbeard (like Crocodile before) is planing something on the side while using WG as a shield.
Mihawk is using his title just so he can fight boredom.

If Dragon gave Shichibukai a diffrent way of maintaining the things they gain from WG, then he wouldn't have to fight them.
If there were no WG, Hancock wouldn't have to even be a Shichibukai.
I believe that Mihawk lost his purpose in life a little after becoming the strongest sworldman, because there is bearly a challange for him, and Drago could give him a new purpose.

However evil guys like Blackbeard or DonFlamingo wouldn't be that easy to work with, but maybe Dragon could pull it off.
True, those that have are Shichibukai out of necessity would probably join Dragon, those that have no need for the Shichibukai title might join Dragon, but in the case of for example Mihawk, why wouldn't they opt to fight instead? Evil pirates would be tough to force into an army that relies on popular support, and many of them would relish the challenge of fighting any enemy, including Dragon.
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Old 2009-04-14, 08:41   Link #193
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For one thing, Kuma's actions can be described as at least suspicious, and he knows Dragon, so maybe he's working as a spy. Boa just wants the title to support her island, and Dragon can offer as much pretty easily.
Still, neither Dragon nor Whitebeard have been shown fighting, so there are a lot of things we don't know about them (from crew numbers and DF powers to haki levels and crew level-besides Ace).
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Old 2009-04-14, 11:49   Link #194
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Pirates or revolutionaries. It depends on what their feelings are toawrds the government right now. If they hate the government, then I could see them becoming revolutionaries (not necessarily joining Dragon). But, if they wish to live a more carefree (as carefree as a criminal can get) lifestyle, they will probably become pirates.

Well, while I can't really speak for the rest of the group, I think we can be certain that Lucci has no particular beef with the government itself.... just Spandam. He made it pretty clear during Enies Lobby that he wasn't very fond of the chief (even going as far as to say that Luffy's a better boss than he is!). Now that Spanda's laying the blame of the whole Enies Lobby fiasco on the CP9 agents, Lucci has the perfect excuse to rid himself of a nasty thorn in his side once and for all (and I doubt daddy will be able to save his son's hide THIS time.....).


As far as the government itself is concerned, Lucci also made it clear that he's loyal to the WG and its ideals. Notice that he got a little carried away dealing out his brand of "dark justice" on some foolish pirates in the ministory. I'm sure he'd become an assassin for them again in a heartbeat, but he has to deal with his treacherous former chief first.....



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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
marvelB, I believe you mentioned the possibility of Hancock helping Luffy out if he is to go outside and encounter the vice admirals in an attempt to retrieve Ace. But, do you really think this scenario is plausible? There are 5 vice admirals outside (it's unknown if Momonga is amongst them as you said) and she is currently with Momonga. If she even dares to assist Luffy in any way and they witness such an action, then she could say goodbye to her shichibukai status. The question is, do you feel that she would be willing to have her status revoked for the sake of helping out Luffy, despite the fact that she has explicitly stated she would like to keep it? One thing is certain, severe consequences (i.e. the treaty will be broken and she and her people will be hunted by the marines) await her if she does get caught helping Luffy.



Oh, I'm aware that Hancock has to be careful if she wants to assist Luffy again. After all, she's not as willing to give up her position as Jinbei. But that's why I kinda figure that she'd help him in a really inconspicuous manner, like she did inside Impel Down. For instance, maybe she could woo a few marine grunts, then sneak Luffy aboard a battleship or something while any nearby VAs are busy scolding their subordinates (Hancock could board a different ship instead, so as not to raise suspicion). Then all Luffy would have to do is lay low until he reaches Marineford.....



And besides, I don't see how Hancock wouldn't want to help Luffy again, since she's..... y'know, in love with him. She wouldn't want those nasty marines to take her precious Luffy away.....
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Old 2009-04-14, 12:42   Link #195
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I had a thought that Whitebeard might not be as strong as he used to be. He is consider the strongest because he was a rival of Roger, but he is "hospitalizied" now, and he's got old.
I'm not saying that he's weak, but that he probably used to be stronger in his glory days.

There are challengers to world strongest's title like Blackbeard or Mihawk (if he was interested), but Dragon might be one as well.
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Old 2009-04-14, 13:25   Link #196
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I think the main reason Dragon was excluded from any strongest equation is because he may have never showed what he is really capable of to the others (kind of like Blackbeard). He is using an army, and the leader of that army, that is enough for the WG to consider him as the biggest threat. But they may not have a lot of idea on how strong he is. Since only the people who are really close to him may have an idea how strong he is, and those people will likely to say nothing about him, it won't be surprising to see him appearing as maybe the strongest later on.
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Old 2009-04-14, 14:55   Link #197
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You say 'we know it's not for strength' but where has this been stated? And we have been told why he is the most wanted man. Way back in chapter 432. It's because he's fighting the World Government.
Who's hasn't been fighting the WG?

Again if the title of most wanted was a title for nothing but strength, it would be under Whitebeards belt for he is the strongest.



Quote:
And the WG and Marines believe that overthrowing the WG will send the world into chaos. Besides, a major change in a worlds governing body will create chaos.
Are you trying to tell me that Dragon wants to send the world into choas after overthrowing the current WG?


Quote:
Uhm... considering he's been pretty successful so far (we've only heard about his victories, but never his losses) I really don't see how you're going to support that claim.
For the simple fact, that WG are still in power, and have yet to lose big.

Quote:
You seem to turn Dragon not being a part of the World Powers into 'Dragon isn't strong enough to join the World Powers.' This is a flawed logic, as Dragon is not part of the World Powers because he chooses to fight against them. This in no way makes him weak.
The one with flawed logic is yours, for the Yonkou fight against the WGs world powers, they are not apart of the WG, yet they are apart of the World powers, that keeps the world from falling into chaos. So you can try to think up another excuse on why Dragon isn't a world power.




Quote:
So far we have not yet heard of a single defeat that army suffered. Every time the Revolutionary Army was mentioned they mentioned how many countries it had liberated. Last time we saw Dragon it was when he was getting a report that his army had won yet another battle.

Like I said, debating the difference in strength between these two is useless because we don't know what either party is capable off. Saying the Whitebeard pirates are stronger is just as ridiculous as me saying the Revolutionary Army is stronger.
World Power > Non World power


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Really? How so?
Strongest man in the world.

Strongest Pirate Crew in the world.

Is a World Power.

Quote:
He's making a move. In fact, he's been doing so for quite some time. They still haven't 'taken good care of him' yet. If anything that increases Dragon's potential strength, not negate it.
Dragon runs and hides from the WG, during this during the war, Dragon will have to stick his neck out. hence the line "is the WG trying to lure Dragon out."

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But you expand that to his army. Your assumption is that because Whitebeard is the strongest man, his crew automatically must be the strongest as well. I don't see how this analysis flies.
No, The Whitebeard Pirates are the strongest Pirate crew in all blues.
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Old 2009-04-14, 15:01   Link #198
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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Strongest man in the world.

Strongest Pirate Crew in the world.

The Whitebeard Pirates being able to take on the other 2 world powers.

No, The Whitebeard Pirates are the strongest Pirate crew in all blues.
Sorry, there has never been a single mention that Whitebeard's crew is the strongest, or the Whitebeard pirates are the strongest. You are twisting a single mention of Newgate being the strongest man to cover every single thing related to that person.
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Old 2009-04-14, 15:03   Link #199
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Sorry, there has never been a single mention that Whitebeard's crew is the strongest, or the Whitebeard pirates are the strongest. You are twisting a single mention of Newgate being the strongest man to cover every single thing related to that person.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...5&postcount=82
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Old 2009-04-14, 15:12   Link #200
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But, sadly enough, That doesn't make them better than Dragon's army (I am being partially facetious when I say this, but you do realize there is a difference between a pirate crew and a whole army, right?)

Do you realize that this Pirate crew, is a world power, which in this One Piece World, World Powers > Army's.
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