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Old 2009-04-17, 22:40   Link #341
Phenomenal
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Nah, forget this I ain't letting anyone go...

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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Fellowships always break apart. Sad but true. The downfall of Bleach is also sad but true. Bleach has been good in the past and may be good in the future, but right now it is downright terrible.
Lets take a look at your reasons shall we.......

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In terms of world-building, character-developing, and story-progressing Bleach goes 0 for 3. The world feels fake, the characters ring false, and the story goes nowhere.
My God, so either you don't read Bleach or you simply don't understand it.
The World of Bleach has been built and developed. Hueco Mundo and especially the fake Karakura Town where the other battle is taking place. There has been loads of character developments in Bleach we got plenty of character developments in the Vice-captain battles vs the Espada's fraccion..Even the Fraccion got development. We also got development on Ulqui and Yammy these past chapters. I lol'd at your last comment no story progression? No my friend, that right now is One Piece's department [Dragging in this boring Disney land of a prison], In Bleach each battle is fought for the sake of story progression...TO STOP AIZEN, each Espada that is defeated is plot progression whether you like it or not.

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If you like one-sided pointless battles that do nothing but give fanservice to certain fans, then you might like Bleach currently. Otherwise you just have to grit your teeth and power through it, in the hope that eventually it gets back on track.
Pointless battles? Lol, like I said You don't understand Bleach or you havent read it.
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Old 2009-04-17, 22:44   Link #342
Ermes Marana
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Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Bleach looks definitely simple

It isn't simple at all. It feels like it is being written by a 10-year-old who can't keep track of all the complicated rules and powers he made up.

Being too complicated is actually a major problem for Bleach.

For example there are way too many rules that don't seem consistent about when and where characters can "power up" to certain levels.
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Old 2009-04-17, 22:46   Link #343
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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
For example there are way too many rules that don't seem consistent about when and where characters can "power up" to certain levels.
Pertaining to who?

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Originally Posted by Fipskuul
Bleach looks definitely simple
Just like all comics and cartoons.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-04-17 at 22:59.
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Old 2009-04-17, 23:18   Link #344
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Here's a question that I am curious to know everyone's answer to.

In terms of the art style between One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach, which art style do you like best?

For me, it's One Piece hands down, followed by Naruto and then Bleach. As I've said before, Oda's designs are very eccentric (one can argue against this with his female designs though ) and because of that all of his characters really stand out and are differentiated very well from one another. If you were to shave everyone's head bald in One Piece, you would be able to tell who's who; whereas for Naruto and Bleach on the other hand, there will definitely be some confusion discerning who's who since a lot of the designs are very generic and similar to one another (a lot of characters have almost the exact same face).
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Old 2009-04-17, 23:22   Link #345
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I like all three each has there own style but none are ugly.
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Old 2009-04-17, 23:34   Link #346
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That being said, there is more than sufficient reason to show more of the Whitebeard War than has already been shown. Ostensibly, Oda is withholding this info because he wants to build suspense, but he has probably gone overboard by withholding too much of the info for too long (as Phenomenal (and others) is so fond of complaining about .
What a understatement.
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Old 2009-04-17, 23:39   Link #347
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Here's a question that I am curious to know everyone's answer to.

In terms of the art style between One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach, which art style do you like best?

For me, it's One Piece hands down, followed by Naruto and then Bleach. As I've said before, Oda's designs are very eccentric (one can argue against this with his female designs though ) and because of that all of his characters really stand out and are differentiated very well from one another. If you were to shave everyone's head bald in One Piece, you would be able to tell who's who; whereas for Naruto and Bleach on the other hand, there will definitely be some confusion discerning who's who since a lot of the designs are very generic and similar to one another (a lot of characters have almost the exact same face).
I prefer One Piece, but each has their charm.

Kubo is very good at using sleek designs, with a good use of angles to accentuate character's faces and hair. I do prefer Kubo's male character designs, though, since I feel that too much attention is placed on a female character's breasts in Bleach.

Kishimoto generally has a good eye for small details. Facial distinctions (in battles), slight movements, heights, and a wonderful use of sound effects etc, and other minute details are quite apparent in all of his character designs (even if the basic facial or hairline structure is quite similar between multiple characters). But, his clothing ensemble is awful, sometimes Kishimoto will even lose track of the basic designs of his clothing (especially inseams and clothing that covers the arm). (That is not to say that Bleach or One Piece are better, Bleach's clothing, while chic, are too common and eventually they become boring; and One Piece's clothing is seen as largly irrelevent, so not much focus is applied.)

Oda is great at creating wonderfully unique characters, and he really likes to give odd looking characters quite interesting powers, which adds to their designs. Oda is fairly bad at drawing different scales, though, with character's switching sizes sometimes mid-chapter (part of this is due to the fact that Oda loves to use interactions between characters in the foreground and background at the same time (he uses this quite a bit during his comedic segments were a lot of characters are interacting together, especially on the ships).

So, in terms of basic characters designs, Bleach looks better, One Piece is more interesting, and Naruto has a great eye for details.

For setting design, though, One Piece wins hands down.

Bleach's settings are static, sleek, yet ultimately boring in their simplicity (admittedly, there have only been three distinct settings in the series, so far).

Naruto, again, has a great eye for detail, creating a "lived-in" world with clutter and phone lings, and other small details.

And One Piece has a beautiful chaos of constantly unique and interesting settings each mixed with unique types of characters. Oda really goes out of his way to create some truly cool as well as beautiful locations.

Last edited by james0246; 2009-04-17 at 23:54.
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Old 2009-04-18, 00:00   Link #348
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I had a feeling you would like Oda's art the best.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Kubo is very good at using sleek designs, with a good use of angles to accentuate character's faces and hair. I do prefer Kubo's male character designs, though, since I feel that too much attention is placed on a female character's breasts in Bleach.
LOL. What's wrong James? You don't appreciate all of the fan service in Bleach? That's what a lot of it comes down to in the art department. It's good to see that you're well beyond that.

For me, Bleach's art is just very boring and dull. What's sad is the fact that so many people like it just because of the "art". A lot of people tend to think the characters look "badass" and for them that takes precedence over anything else. One Piece is generally not very appealing to these kinds of fans since a lot of its characters look wacky and abnormal.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Kishimoto generally has a good eye for small details. Facial distinctions (in battles), slight movements, heights, etc, and other minute details are quite apparent in all of his character designs (even if the basic facial or hairline structure is quite similar between multiple characters).
I agree. Kishimoto is quite meticulous with his art style, and because of that his fight scenes look very good to say the least.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Oda is fairly bad at drawing different scales, though, with character's switching sizes sometimes mid-chapter (part of this is due to the fact that Oda loves to use interactions between characters in the foreground and background at the same time (he uses this quite a bit during his comedic segments were a lot of characters are interacting together, especially on the ships).
This is true. Moria is a perfect example of this. In his first appearance (when he was sleeping), he was ridiculously big compared to when he was fully revealed. Doflamingo also looked like the size of a normal person when he was first shown, but then at Mariejoia where all of the warlords get together to discuss battle tactics, he looked as tall as an admiral sitting down on the head of the chair. He definitely wasn't that big before.
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Old 2009-04-18, 00:07   Link #349
Ermes Marana
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Pertaining to who?
The "Lift the Limit" storyline felt really fake to me. Vice Captains almost die using power limiters to stay at 20% power. To avoid creating ripples. Meanwhile we watch the fight thinking it may be a real contest.

Then they go full power anyway and immediately win. Why wait so long other than stretching the chapters? If Vice Captains are supposed to stay at 20%, why wasn't Ichigo given a major power limiting device as well?

Another inconsistentcy... Hitsugaya at 20% >>>> VC at 20%... doesn't make sense to restrict the VC so much.

Spoiler for recent Bleach:


Anyway, I probably shouldn't have brought this up here. In my defense, I kind of meant it as a joke (I had just said it was stupid to compare One Piece and Naruto, and then I compared them to Bleach. It was supposed to be a joke because it was so obviously hypocritical).

Last edited by Ermes Marana; 2009-04-18 at 00:26.
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Old 2009-04-18, 00:17   Link #350
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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Bleach has been good in the past and may be good in the future, but right now it is downright terrible.
Nothing has changed with it, Bleach is still the same, it has the same elemnets in its current story just as it did in the past.

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In terms of world-building, character-developing, and story-progressing Bleach goes 0 for 3. The world feels fake, the characters ring false, and the story goes nowhere.
If Bleach's story went no where, then wouldn't most for Aizens forces still be alive? and Aizen wouldn't be locked up in a heat box etc etc.

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If you like one-sided pointless battles
You might as well say all battles are pointless (One Piece included,) if you think the fights that are happing in bleach now, are pointless.

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that do nothing but give fanservice to certain fans,
then you might like Bleach currently. Otherwise you just have to grit your teeth and power through it, in the hope that eventually it gets back on track.
My man Hitsugaya Toushirou (the guy not afraid of anything), ranks in Bleach popularity polls most of the time within the top ten, but the guy gets mopped most of the time. So how is it fansevice again?

and yes Hitsugaya Toushirou will crush his current opponent! and its not because of the fans but for Hitsugaya is that bad.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-04-18 at 00:45.
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Old 2009-04-18, 00:19   Link #351
Ermes Marana
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post

For setting design, though, One Piece wins hands down.

Yeah, this is probably the main reason I would put One Piece first, then Naruto, then Bleach.

Just the locations in One Piece are enough to fire up the imagination. And I like the overall eccentric style.

But again... different styles for different stories. One Piece's art style would not work well with the story of Naruto or Bleach. Each of them has good art that complements their story.
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Old 2009-04-18, 03:30   Link #352
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Actually we cannot even use this as a point of comparison. The Sasuke arc had been set-up since the 3rd or 4th Chapter of Naruto, whereas the separation of the crew occurred only 20 or so chapters ago. So, there is no real set-up that would require for Oda to do anything more than what he has already done (which is show the crew in their various other locations).

That being said, there is more than sufficient reason to show more of the Whitebeard War than has already been shown. Ostensibly, Oda is withholding this info because he wants to build suspense, but he has probably gone overboard by withholding too much of the info for too long (as Phenomenal (and others) is so fond of complaining about .
Set up in chapter 3,4? Then making Chouji a fatass makes it a set up to leave Naruto for few chapters and watch Chouji eat lots of chips Oo
I get it that Sasuke had to face Itachi at some point but making all 15 years old stonger than all prevois shinobies is... SasukexItachi felt like fanservice for me, but I accepted it, but then we've got a whole arc of Sasuke going with his new team and showing that he can beat somoene at nearly Kyuubi level just so some girls can wet their pants.
Naruto took the whole Jounin level that Kakashi vs Zabuza and Kage level that's Orochimaru vs 3rd Hokage, and stomped on them by Making Naruto and his friends so strong that I don't know that if Yondaime would win against them.
Orochimaru lost to 4tails, and Pain goes against 8tails now?

In OP we have Whitebeard, Aokiji and Mihawk that are the highest level, and we see Strawhat lose just to remind us that they aren't at that level yet.

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Originally Posted by JINBEI
My man Hitsugaya Toushirou (the guy not afraid of anything), ranks in Bleach popularity polls most of the time within the top ten, but the guy gets mopped most of the time. So how is it fansevice again?

and yes Hitsugaya Toushirou will crush his current opponent! and its not because of the fans but for Hitsugaya is that bad
It's fanservice becuase Kubo created 13 captains and gives the more spotlight to those that are high ranked in fanpolls.
Hitsugaya mopps because he's that weak, it's annoying becuase he even says it himself and some people don't notice.
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Last edited by Wolcik; 2009-04-18 at 03:45.
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Old 2009-04-18, 04:44   Link #353
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Um, let's stop right there before this gets out of hand, and remind yourselves that this is One Piece - Chapter 539 thread, not Which is better OP, Bleach, or Naruto thread.
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Old 2009-04-18, 04:56   Link #354
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Um, let's stop right there before this gets out of hand, and remind yourselves that this is One Piece - Chapter 539 thread, not Which is better OP, Bleach, or Naruto thread.
Sorry. It's just this no OP week that frustrates people. I can't imagine how will next threat get off topic when there will be no OP for 2 weeks Oo
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Old 2009-04-18, 15:45   Link #355
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the hole bleach thing was a bit off topic no?

anyway,what do u guys think will be one piece next saga?

luffy looks for kuma in order to get all of his crew members back,sence kuma is the only one that knows where they are....

and who do u think will join the straw hats?bon clay is a good addition to the team dont u think?
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Old 2009-04-18, 15:56   Link #356
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Well Luffy and all of his crew have biblio card pieces that will lead them to Rayleigh, so I assume that will be the first order of business. He even mentioned it back at the Amazon Lily chapters, he needed a ship so he could go back to Sabaody.
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:12   Link #357
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Sorry. It's just this no OP week that frustrates people. I can't imagine how will next threat get off topic when there will be no OP for 2 weeks Oo
are you saying there is a two week gap after the next chapter? Please tell me no.

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and who do u think will join the straw hats?bon clay is a good addition to the team dont u think?
I don't think he's joining. Oda has a distinct style when adding someone to a crew, he gives them a back story, and they often need a functional need of the crew. I get the distinct feeling that the next crew member will be the last (evidence from Luffy saying he wanted a crew of 10 people before he'd sail the grand line i n the early chapters). So I have a feeling it may not be someone we haven't necessarily met yet. At least if my theory about the next crew member being right, I think Bon Clay or really anyone we've met currently is sort aniclimactic.
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anyway,what do u guys think will be one piece next saga?
Better than Bleach currently =P.

What I'm curious about is how much time within OP has actually passed since the Kuma battle?
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:26   Link #358
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I don't think he's joining. Oda has a distinct style when adding someone to a crew, he gives them a back story, and they often need a functional need of the crew. I get the distinct feeling that the next crew member will be the last (evidence from Luffy saying he wanted a crew of 10 people before he'd sail the grand line i n the early chapters). So I have a feeling it may not be someone we haven't necessarily met yet. At least if my theory about the next crew member being right, I think Bon Clay or really anyone we've met currently is sort aniclimactic.
Bon Clay is a possibility i think, he isnt stronger then Luffy, Zoro or Sanji.

whoever joins cant be stronger then any of them three really, it would upset the balance

edit, Bon Clay would be very good at gathering information or spying with his ability, and he can teach people to dance, job role sorted
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:27   Link #359
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For a small off-topicness, I prefer bleach art to the other two, but KT's plot is getting on my nerves big time. Naruto is average on everything and OP has a great plot and fairly good art (at least for me).

Back to the notorious WB war, I think that WB will die of illness or that he would have planned to die in the hands of the government, much like Roger did before him. The possibility of a 10th crew member, while it is there, it shouldn't be so soon after Brooke joined-he still hasn't had a unique battle or a separate arc (although his bone jokes are more than enough...), compared to others.

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are you saying there is a two week gap after the next chapter? Please tell me no.
The chance of a two week gap after the next chapter is 100% <- didn't say the forbidden word^^
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Old 2009-04-18, 17:37   Link #360
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edit, Bon Clay would be very good at gathering information or spying with his ability, and he can teach people to dance, job role sorted
Actually, this is a feasible idea (and something I would kind of expect Oda to do), but Bon Clay will not be joining the crew for the simple reason that he doesn't really have a dream (not the grandeois dreams that the rest of the crew have). He would be better off joining Iva and the Okama gang fighting the WG for Dragon.

Additionally, the next (final) member of the crew will probably be someone that has knowledge of the New World. Right now, the Strawhat crew is flying blind when it comes to the Nw World, and if they should hope to succeed there, then they need a native guide to help them (a native like Vivi or Robin, who hold a great deal of knowledge concerning the world of the Grand Line). Right now, besides Ace, there is really no one that the Strawhats are on friendly terms with that can help them in the New World, so they need to find someone either before they enter, or right after they enter.
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