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Old 2009-04-11, 17:59   Link #101
marvelB
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I actually agree with the sentiment of Jinbei making Ace's safety his top priority. Even if he and Luffy fail to save Ace at Impel Down, they can still travel together to Marineford to make a second rescue attempt (that is, as long as they aren't too injured/tired....). After all, despite whatever differences the two of them had in the past, we can see that Ace and Jinbei have a good deal of respect for each other now. Plus, seeing as Jinbei has such great reverence for Newgate, I'm sure that he'd have no objection to taking Ace to safety while war being waged. I also think that Jinbei has less of a chance of losing his position if he went MIA (i.e. bringing Ace to his homeland) instead of openly rebelling against the government with Whitebeard.......
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Old 2009-04-11, 18:11   Link #102
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I actually agree with the sentiment of Jinbei making Ace's safety his top priority. Even if he and Luffy fail to save Ace at Impel Down, they can still travel together to Marineford to make a second rescue attempt (that is, as long as they aren't too injured/tired....). After all, despite whatever differences the two of them had in the past, we can see that Ace and Jinbei have a good deal of respect for each other now. Plus, seeing as Jinbei has such great reverence for Newgate, I'm sure that he'd have no objection to taking Ace to safety while war being waged. I also think that Jinbei has less of a chance of losing his position if he went MIA (i.e. bringing Ace to his homeland) instead of openly rebelling against the government with Whitebeard.......
The thing is, if Ace is saved, thats does not stop Whitebeard from giving the WG a piece of his wrath for messing with one of his sons, that just the type of man Whitebeard is. Jinbei going MIA and not helping Whitebeard in the war, wouldn't do his island any good either, because if Whitebeard dies his home island and many others will fall into chaos. Jinbei's' position as one of the Seven Armed Seas don't mean jack to at this point. Hence him tossing it, trying to stop the war.

and if Ace is not saved but transported, I bet Jinbei would take flight to wherever war is being held, and aid Whitebeard.
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Old 2009-04-11, 20:13   Link #103
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Jinbei, Whitebeard pirates…? Dragon's revolutionaries..? Monkey D. Luffy..? Boa Hancock..? And [It breaks my soul to say this] Kuma all against the World Government eh. Good!! They can all die together. Have you people forgotten why the World Government LURED Whitebeard and Dragon out to this little shindig huh? It’s because my man Blackbeard done tipped the balance in their favor, Yall remember what Hogback said about Blackbeard being a “trump card “ and Kuma implying that this man tipped the balance in the World Governments favor when speaking with Moria in Thriller Bark. Man, this battle was over before it even begun. Heh, Marshall D. Teach just clinches it for the Government.

As for Jinbei trying to help Whitebeard and not helping Luffy get to Fishman Island? Bwhahwha-Bwhaha-Ha, Lets get our little fish out of his bowl first before we try to help someone else. “Knight of the Sea...” How can you save someone else when you can’t even save yourself? Besides, once Jinbei see’s Blackbeard pushing Whitebeard into the pits of hell and the rest of his fleet being murdered by the other Shichibukai and Marines Jinbei isn’t going to want NO PART of that action anymore? Once you TKO the boss the rest of the flunkies doesn’t want to fade it. Once Jinbei see’s that, Jinbei will high-tail it out of there on the back of a freaking locknest monster and be an escort for Luffy to Fishman Island once he sees’s there’s no hope of saving Whitebeard pirates.

Whitebeard Pirates…Dragon’s army, You over…….

Sincerely Phenomenal
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Old 2009-04-11, 20:42   Link #104
james0246
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^More like Blackbeard will be the only one still standing once the current "war" ends. Whitebeard? Dead and his pirate crew broken. Dragon? Bloodied and in retreat to fight another day, but still an extremely viable threat to the WG. And the WG? In shambles after the destruction of most of their average forces and, presumably, a few of their Shichibukai and maybe an Admiral.

And Blackbeard? Blackbeard will survive these upcoming travesties relatively unscathed.
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Old 2009-04-11, 20:53   Link #105
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Blackbeard should come out of this with some wounds....I don't see Mihawk getting scathed though...
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Old 2009-04-11, 21:02   Link #106
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Blackbeard will be wounded for sure, we will surely see alot of the Marines logia;type users get wounded badly

after all, look how many Haki users will be helping whitebeards side? two of which are the King's Disposition.
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Old 2009-04-11, 21:25   Link #107
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"Haki?" Kings "Haki.....?" Pfft.....

As Blackbeard will show you...All efforts are futile when faced with overwhelming power!!

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-04-11 at 21:43.
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Old 2009-04-11, 22:29   Link #108
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Jinbei, Whitebeard pirates…? Dragon's revolutionaries..? Monkey D. Luffy..? Boa Hancock..? And [It breaks my soul to say this] Kuma all against the World Government eh. Good!! They can all die together. Have you people forgotten why the World Government LURED Whitebeard and Dragon out to this little shindig huh? It’s because my man Blackbeard done tipped the balance in their favor, Yall remember what Hogback said about Blackbeard being a “trump card “ and Kuma implying that this man tipped the balance in the World Governments favor when speaking with Moria in Thriller Bark. Man, this battle was over before it even begun. Heh, Marshall D. Teach just clinches it for the Government.

As for Jinbei trying to help Whitebeard and not helping Luffy get to Fishman Island? Bwhahwha-Bwhaha-Ha, Lets get our little fish out of his bowl first before we try to help someone else. “Knight of the Sea...” How can you save someone else when you can’t even save yourself? Besides, once Jinbei see’s Blackbeard pushing Whitebeard into the pits of hell and the rest of his fleet being murdered by the other Shichibukai and Marines Jinbei isn’t going to want NO PART of that action anymore? Once you TKO the boss the rest of the flunkies doesn’t want to fade it. Once Jinbei see’s that, Jinbei will high-tail it out of there on the back of a freaking locknest monster and be an escort for Luffy to Fishman Island once he sees’s there’s no hope of saving Whitebeard pirates.

Whitebeard Pirates…Dragon’s army, You over…….

Sincerely Phenomenal
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Originally Posted by james0246
^More like Blackbeard will be the only one still standing once the current "war" ends. Whitebeard? Dead and his pirate crew broken. Dragon? Bloodied and in retreat to fight another day, but still an extremely viable threat to the WG. And the WG? In shambles after the destruction of most of their average forces and, presumably, a few of their Shichibukai and maybe an Admiral.

And Blackbeard? Blackbeard will survive these upcoming travesties relatively unscathed.
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Old 2009-04-11, 23:44   Link #109
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While I do believe that Whitebeard will meet his downfall, I think it's WAY too soon to assume that Dragon will be going down with him. If anything, he'll probably make his move after the marines have exhausted their forces fighting Newgate (hey, we ARE talking about the crew of the most powerful pirate in the world here..... there's bound to be casualties on both sides here no matter which way you cut it). Luffy's pops doesn't exactly strike me as being the type of guy who'd rush forward recklessly like his Supernova son. He'd bide his time until the right moment........



....Though I suppose we can't rule out the possibility of the government anticipating that very tactic and have already prepared a nasty surprise for Dragon's army just in case. But I still doubt that means that Dragon will meet his end.....
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Old 2009-04-11, 23:51   Link #110
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Onigumo? Lame. I was hoping for Akainu to finally make a proper introduction. Ho hum...
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Old 2009-04-12, 00:04   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Oda's Mouth
Whitebeard Pirate Crew strongest pirate crew in all the Blues!!
Dragon and his gang of cross dressers better stay out of the way, unless they want to know what the sea's where like 22 years ago.
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Old 2009-04-12, 00:09   Link #112
marvelB
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Onigumo? Lame. I was hoping for Akainu to finally make a proper introduction. Ho hum...


Onigumo is awesome! Heck, ALL the Buster Call VAs are awesome. It's a shame that the only actions we saw from him during Enies Lobby involved shooting an insubordinate officer and barking an order to nuke one of the BC battleships. I hope we get to see more action from him in this storyline..... and Doberman too, if he's present. It's about time for ol' scarface to make his return.....
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Old 2009-04-12, 02:56   Link #113
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I don't know how anyone can die in current state of One Piece. How Oda will show a war that devastates everything. If this were to rise to the expectation then there should me more casualities than WB. There should be dead Shichibukai or Admiral.
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Old 2009-04-12, 06:17   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
"Haki?" Kings "Haki.....?" Pfft.....

As Blackbeard will show you...All efforts are futile when faced with overwhelming power!!
Yet Haki was used to completely cancel the Light powers of Admiral Kizaru. All that power doesn't mean a darn if what you hit with it can cancel the power out. Which is what Luffy found out as that guy was able to cancel out all of Luffy's attacks.

I'm betting that Dragon has both a devil fruit power and the use of Haki.
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Old 2009-04-12, 07:33   Link #115
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Yet Haki was used to completely cancel the Light powers of Admiral Kizaru. All that power doesn't mean a darn if what you hit with it can cancel the power out. Which is what Luffy found out as that guy was able to cancel out all of Luffy's attacks.

I'm betting that Dragon has both a devil fruit power and the use of Haki.
its almost certain Dragon has Logia;type Storm, and Iva mentions that Luffy must get his amazing spirit from his father...ye safe to assume he does
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Old 2009-04-12, 10:48   Link #116
Master Mold
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I don't know how anyone can die in current state of One Piece. How Oda will show a war that devastates everything. If this were to rise to the expectation then there should me more casualities than WB. There should be dead Shichibukai or Admiral.
That would be a waste of characters Imo, and besides deaths ain't everything to a war, and thats one thing Oda would be pushing seeing how he handled the series.

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Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt
Yet Haki was used to completely cancel the Light powers of Admiral Kizaru. All that power doesn't mean a darn if what you hit with it can cancel the power out. Which is what Luffy found out as that guy was able to cancel out all of Luffy's attacks.

I'm betting that Dragon has both a devil fruit power and the use of Haki.
Dark King was only able to touch Yellow Monkey, not completely cancel his powers, and we don't know if Sentomaru was using haki, for one he has world class guard, and with that its not that hard to block/cancel Luffy's weak attacks. One thing I will take a shot (guess at) is that his broad Axe has a DF power.
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Old 2009-04-12, 11:36   Link #117
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Onigumo is awesome! Heck, ALL the Buster Call VAs are awesome. It's a shame that the only actions we saw from him during Enies Lobby involved shooting an insubordinate officer and barking an order to nuke one of the BC battleships. I hope we get to see more action from him in this storyline..... and Doberman too, if he's present. It's about time for ol' scarface to make his return.....
And what about the Vice-Admiral that's always grinning? He looks like the goofiest of the Buster Call VAs. And I also forgot the description of Vice-Admiral Strawberry.
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Old 2009-04-12, 13:35   Link #118
james0246
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Dragon and his gang of cross dressers better stay out of the way, unless they want to know what the sea's where like 22 years ago.
Dragon has conquered/liberated dozens upon dozens of islands to the point were he, not Whitebeard, is considered the greatest threat to the WG. So, obviously the world fears Dragon's "gang of cross-dresser", or else he would not be the most wanted man in the world.

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Dark King was only able to touch Yellow Monkey, not completely cancel his powers, and we don't know if Sentomaru was using haki, for one he has world class guard, and with that its not that hard to block/cancel Luffy's weak attacks. One thing I will take a shot (guess at) is that his broad Axe has a DF power.
LOL, I love how you make light of the fact that for the first time ever we have seen a Logia user hurt by something that they are not supposed to be able to be hurt by. In that one instance, the conceptions and realities surrounding Logias was changed; Rayleigh was bumped up to almost Admiral class considering his basic abilities; and Mihawk instantly gained some amazing cred considering that he has been said to be able to cut elements for years, but many people refused to believe that a sword could actual cut a logia.
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Old 2009-04-12, 14:02   Link #119
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Dark King was only able to touch Yellow Monkey, not completely cancel his powers, and we don't know if Sentomaru was using haki, for one he has world class guard, and with that its not that hard to block/cancel Luffy's weak attacks. One thing I will take a shot (guess at) is that his broad Axe has a DF power.
canceling his powers doesnt matter ; he was able to slice him, thats what counts

take somebody like Luffy who has amazing physical strength, extreme speed and is resistant to all non slashing attacks - soon as he learns to use his Haki...all of a sudden, Logia users dont seem all that special.

in this Arc, an admiral is going to learn this the hard way, though it will be while Luffy is angry, not through control.
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Old 2009-04-12, 14:22   Link #120
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Well, Iva has been in this prison for years waiting for the order to strike. He has to have a plan on escape and make as much damage as possible. It's one of those time when Luffy comes and someone that seems to be waiting years just so happens to decide to move now - like Enel.
Yep, Iwa said this quite directly - he had been planning to wait until Dragon had made a big move before attempting a break-out. I don't blame him for being cautious since he'd only really get once chance.

Maybe he was hoping that with the world thrown into chaos (in a scenario where Dragon has made a big push), it would be a lot easier to escape and stay that way since the WG/Marines would have higher priorities.

He seems to think it quite likely that Dragon will likely do something specifically because of Ace's capture.


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And there's still the question of how everyone will escape. While I still like the idea of an underwater getaway, I guess it's now more likely that everyone will just use level 5.5 as a shortcut to level 1. Of course, that depends on the chance that the prison staff doesn't discover the secret level's existence during all the ruckus......
With no denden mushi in Level 5, Level 5.5 is pretty safe for now - ID don't have time to investigate a large area for a hidden zone right now.

If I was planning to break out of the place, I think the most immediate short-term goal would be to take out Impel Down's communications and monitoring system - ie take out the monitoring room on each floor. That would make it hard for ID's "all stars" to be used effectively. The "fog of war" would help the Level 5.5 gang (and prisoners) a lot. Even still, they would need to take over a Marine ship to be able to escape (swimming away is not a general purpose solution), which means having enough fighting power to do that and keep the other ships / Marines at bay for long enough. The Level 5.5 group would be fit and healthy, unlike the general prisoner population, but there would certainly be some merit in trying to start a large scale break-out across multiple floors. We nearly had a big breakout on Level 2, but ID was able to contain that. If prisoners on all levels see a large-scale and effective break-out operation in action, they would be keen to join in (most are currently not very keen). The Level 5.5 lot might even have a priority list of prisoners with known special abilities that would be useful in a breakout attempt.

I see Impel Down as rather like a nuclear reactor or bomb. 99.9% of the time it's safe and any minor problems can be easily quashed. But, one or more prisoners escaping can lead to a cascade of others escaping, leading to enough "critical mass" that the rate of escape exceeds the ability of ID's forces to contain it - the unconstrained fighting ability of all the prisoners should vastly exceed that of ID's forces.

In the current situation, ID's forces are already slightly weakened... and if Magellan and the remaining guardian beasts go down early (to Luffy and Iwa+Inazuma respectively?) then ID would be in deep trouble very quickly. Maybe this is where Shiryuu would come in.

Anyway... there's a lot of different paths / scenarios Oda could do. It'll be fun watching this play out.
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