AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-04-13, 16:41   Link #261
Bassoonicmayhem
The Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
This chapter just proved every character that I deem a favorite will end up dead. Sad but true.
__________________
Speical thanks to Haladflire65 for the awesome Signature

Last edited by Bassoonicmayhem; 2009-04-13 at 16:41. Reason: wrong word
Bassoonicmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 16:51   Link #262
HayashiTakara
Chicken or Beef?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to HayashiTakara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
Being a sadist does not make you evil in the slightest. Nor does being a hollow strictly make you an evil person. it's your actions that make you evil.

I wouldn't necessarily call Ulquiorra a sadist either, I can't recall a single instance where he derived pleasure at the expense of others. He may have caused considerable amounts of pain to others, but his motivation has never been to derive pleasure from it. He was a robot, he followed orders to the letter.

However, being unwilling or unable to question his orders and decide for himself if they are morally correct could arguably make him an evil person.
Since a lot of people replied to my comment, I just chose one.

Anyway, emo-bat was a sadist, he pocket pool'd while trying to get a rise out of our heroes. And gets pissed off when he doesn't get the reaction he wants. Over and over again, he keeps going down the line of things he can say and do to get the reaction he wants.

Most recently he waited for Inoue to arrive to finish off Ichigo just to bust a nut over her despair watching him die.

Emo-bat is 99% expressionless, but its not hard to tell what he wants.

And finally yes, sadism is a part of "evil" nature. All bad guys are sadist. Every single murderer, rapist, psychotic killers, etc, are sadist.

Emo-bat, isn't following orders from Aizen because he is forced to, He's following Aizen cause he's Aizen's biggest fangirl.
__________________
HayashiTakara is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:00   Link #263
Vinak
Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United States
Age: 26
@Sabaku Kyu
you declare the very thought of sadistic behavior to be evil yet you embrace the actions of Dexter. Dexter is the very embodiment of Sadism. He willfully kills people for his own pleasure.

I cannot Agree with you on this subject. Having sadistic thoughts and not acting on them for any reason is a good thing, regardless of the motivation. Using your own definition, thoughts cannot be considered evil. Sadism is wrong in itself but the thoughts themselves cannot physically harm a person unless you act upon them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Since a lot of people replied to my comment, I just chose one.

Anyway, emo-bat was a sadist, he pocket pool'd while trying to get a rise out of our heroes. And gets pissed off when he doesn't get the reaction he wants. Over and over again, he keeps going down the line of things he can say and do to get the reaction he wants.

Most recently he waited for Inoue to arrive to finish off Ichigo just to bust a nut over her despair watching him die.

Emo-bat is 99% expressionless, but its not hard to tell what he wants.
your taking a great deal of liberty in your interpretation of his apathy. And we cannot know whether or not he intentionally waited for Orhime's arrival to administer his final blow to Ichigo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
And finally yes, sadism is a part of "evil" nature. All bad guys are sadist. Every single murderer, rapist, psychotic killers, etc, are sadist.
your generalizing here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Emo-bat, isn't following orders from Aizen because he is forced to, He's following Aizen cause he's Aizen's biggest fangirl.
__________________

Last edited by Vinak; 2009-04-13 at 17:11.
Vinak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:05   Link #264
HayashiTakara
Chicken or Beef?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to HayashiTakara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
@Sabaku Kyu
you declare the very thought of sadistic behavior to be evil yet you embrace the actions of Dexter. Dexter is the very embodiment of Sadism. He willfully kills people for his own pleasure.

I cannot Agree with you on this subject. Having sadistic thoughts and not acting on them for any reason is a good thing, regardless of the motivation. Using your own definition, thoughts cannot be considered evil. Sadism is wrong in itself but the thoughts themselves cannot physically harm a person unless you act upon them.
I think having thoughts (particularly on a constant basis) makes you psychotic and highly unstable. Eventually something will happen and those inhumane thoughts will flood out.
__________________
HayashiTakara is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:14   Link #265
Vinak
Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United States
Age: 26
psychotic, perhaps. but not evil...yet
those individuals with such thoughts should seek professional help if they feel there symptoms are uncontrollable or unbearable.
__________________
Vinak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:28   Link #266
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
@Sabaku Kyu
you declare the very thought of sadistic behavior to be evil yet you embrace the actions of Dexter. Dexter is the very embodiment of Sadism. He willfully kills people for his own pleasure.

I cannot Agree with you on this subject. Having sadistic thoughts and not acting on them for any reason is a good thing, regardless of the motivation. Using your own definition, thoughts cannot be considered evil. Sadism is wrong in itself but the thoughts themselves cannot physically harm a person unless you act upon them.
I don't applaud Dexter's sadism, the only reason I consider him good is that his sadistic nature is complimented by the fact that he has empathy and compassion for certain people and is willing to restrain and focus his sadistic impulses for their sake. I consider someone who has sadistic impulses, but lacks those other mentioned qualities to be evil, regardless of whether or not they act on their impulses.

If I've somehow offended you, then I apologize but that's simply the way I feel about the subject. But I'll respect your opinion and let it drop. It's wandering off topic anyways


Anyways, regarding Ulq I've already grown tired of talking about him anyways.

He's a character I think Kubo put a lot of effort into making it look like he was "deep" but he didn't really flesh out his motivations at all. His death was sad and all, but it's not worth much trying to analyze his psyche now that he's dead.

Bring on the vizards already...
__________________



Sabaku Kyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:28   Link #267
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
psychotic, perhaps. but not evil...yet
those individuals with such thoughts should seek professional help if they feel there symptoms are uncontrollable or unbearable.

I'd classify holding a girl against her will and stabbing her savior multiple times evil. But that's just me
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:30   Link #268
HayashiTakara
Chicken or Beef?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to HayashiTakara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
I don't applaud Dexter's sadism, the only reason I consider him good is that his sadistic nature is complimented by the fact that he has empathy and compassion for certain people and is willing to restrain and focus his sadistic impulses for their sake. I consider someone who has sadistic impulses, but lacks those other mentioned qualities to be evil, regardless of whether or not they act on their impulses.

If I've somehow offended you, then I apologize but that's simply the way I feel about the subject. But I'll respect your opinion and let it drop. It's wandering off topic anyways


Anyways, regarding Ulq I've already grown tired of talking about him anyways.

He's a character I think Kubo put a lot of effort into making it look like he was "deep" but he didn't really flesh out his motivations at all. His death was sad and all, but it's not worth much trying to analyze his psyche now that he's dead.

Bring on the vizards already...
I concur, Emo-bat is dead (well dead more since you gotta be dead to be a hollow in the first place XP)

Bring on the living (sort of) !
__________________
HayashiTakara is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:37   Link #269
Vinak
Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United States
Age: 26
lol yes, Bring on the vizards indeed. I had intended to drop the subject as well

And no, you hadn't offended me in anyway. If I came across that way then I apologize.

Now I wonder what kind of repercussions we are going to have after killing off so many menos turned Arrancar. do they split off into individual spirits again and go to SS? do they just turn into spirit particles? or what?
__________________
Vinak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:54   Link #270
kiroisenko
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: doesn't exist on this world.
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to kiroisenko Send a message via Yahoo to kiroisenko
I liked the ending and it's only going to get more interesting as the story develops.
Next Chapter : Orihime using her reject ability to restore Ulquiora to his normal form. jkjkjk, but still though it might happen you never know.
lol that part was also funny to me, Ulquiorra gives ichigo his sword back? Jesus this is the guy who is meant to be cold as ice, normally he would just Cut ichigo to pieces instead he gives him his sword back.BTW, how come Ulquiorra died like a vampire in the sun? HM Ha sno sun in there... Aizen made it like it was a sky in the dome, but outside the dome it's total night time. Oh man, this was such a crappy chapter. I still vote for Inoue rejecting Ulquiora's death so Kurosaki can fight him on fair term. Just like Grimmjaw.
i wondering about that i just remeber it, what did he mean with the 'if you don't kill me now, it will never be over' part? That made me think he might come back.. sigh
chect out page 18
kiroisenko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 17:59   Link #271
DarkHollowIchigo
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: スタックした中間
Age: 28
I still wonder about Ichigo, he told that he was not in controle of this form. Was his hollow form in controle? if this is true, than it is definitly not the hollow side we saw when Ichigo tried to obtain the masks powers. That Holow side was extrovert , shouting/talking to ichigo and making weird noices when attacking.

This hollow form was introvert though, he was mumbling only. Does Ichigo have to take over this Hollow side aswell to obtain these powers?
__________________
DarkHollowIchigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 18:01   Link #272
HayashiTakara
Chicken or Beef?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to HayashiTakara
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHollowIchigo View Post
I still wonder about Ichigo, he told that he was not in controle of this form. Was his hollow form in controle? if this is true, than it is definitly not the hollow side we saw when Ichigo tried to obtain the masks powers. That Holow side was extrovert , shouting/talking to ichigo and making weird noices when attacking.

This hollow form was introvert though, he was mumbling only. Does Ichigo have to take over this Hollow side aswell to obtain these powers?
From what I gather he ran on pure instincts.
__________________
HayashiTakara is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 18:04   Link #273
Cub-Sama
Member of DOLLARS
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
And even then, motive is a question. Someone who doesn't fulfill their sadistic pleasures only because they have a greater fear of being caught and punished is still evil.
In that case arent most humans by extension evil, we have people that we enjoy to see hurt like our enemies the fact we think about doing it but we dont because of a greater fear (law, religion etc...) does that make us evil?

Is enjoying seeing bad people suffer evil?

I will admit in a way I am a sadist, I find it funny seeing some things suffer, I'm not evil I just find it funny, I can feel their pain but doesn't make it any less fun to watch. Like if you see someone get slapped and they are really hurt would that stop you from laughing?

If someone got on your nerves or even just a friend and you slapped them or made them fall flat on their face or tackled them hard so it hurt, if you enjoyed that are you evil? Also most guys base their friendship of being able to hurt and insult each other, most of my friends I hit and insult, I don't go too far to really hurt them but seeing them hurt still makes me laugh until it is taken to certain levels.

Quote:
They still have free will. That's exemplified by Nel herself and her followers. Nel chose not to fight Noitora and she chose to befriend Ichigo though he's a shinigami. Nel may be a child now, but she's still an arrancar and she's never shown any instincts that compelled her to act in an animalistic or evil way. If they do have them, they can obviously choose to restain them unlike full hollows who cannot act any other way.
However that is because of the part of her humanity they regained, some like Nnoitora regained their stubborness, madness and will to fight whilst others like Nel regained her love and unwillingness to fight. A hollow when they become a arrancar the main thing is they regain part of their humanity and act on that part they regain. Ulquiorra regained his logical behaviour but did not regain compassion or empathy as a result he did not understand their behaviour.

Quote:
Like the way Grimmjow "bowed down" before Ulqiuorria? And Loli bowed down before Yammi? I'd say that most arrancar definitely respect strength, but they don't blindly obey anyone who's stronger than themselves. Like humans, I'm sure some can be coerced into following someone out of fear, but I think all arrancar follow Aizen for a reason (gratitude, respect, fear) not instinctive obedience.
Grimmjow didn't bow down before Ulquiorra because of a dominant personality trait that is his superiority complex, he believes he is superior to Ulquiorra just like Nnoitora, but he still respects Ulquiorra's strength and in fact feared Ulquiorra catching on to what he was doing with Ichigo. Even if they don't blindly follow they respect strength it is like with animals in the wild if you can intimidate them they will back down and through intimidation you can force them into submission like Aizen using his reiatsu to school Grimmy.

Quote:
Similarly, they don't have to act in a violent or evil way. Those who do do it because that's how they choose to act.
The only people who acted in a violent or evil way was Grimm, Nnoitora, Pinky, Tentacle freak and Giant, Grimmy's surbodinates weren't particularly evil neither in fact Grimmy was just aggressive to prove his strength he was Chaotic Good.

Chapter 12 Page 10

A zanpakuto can only cleanse the sins of the hollow after it has become a hollow if it has commited terrible sins during life it is doomed to hell

And I am done with my arguement, shouldn't there be a thread asking if hollows are truly evil? I'm surprised there isn't
__________________

We are DOLLARS, credit for sig goes to CMHerrera-chan

Last edited by Cub-Sama; 2009-04-13 at 18:18.
Cub-Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 18:14   Link #274
DarkHollowIchigo
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: スタックした中間
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
From what I gather he ran on pure instincts.
Hmmm yes ..i didnt even thought about that.
__________________
DarkHollowIchigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 18:30   Link #275
HayashiTakara
Chicken or Beef?
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to HayashiTakara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
In that case arent most humans by extension evil, we have people that we enjoy to see hurt like our enemies the fact we think about doing it but we dont because of a greater fear (law, religion etc...) does that make us evil?

Is enjoying seeing bad people suffer evil?

I will admit in a way I am a sadist, I find it funny seeing some things suffer, I'm not evil I just find it funny, I can feel their pain but doesn't make it any less fun to watch. Like if you see someone get slapped and they are really hurt would that stop you from laughing?

If someone got on your nerves or even just a friend and you slapped them or made them fall flat on their face or tackled them hard so it hurt, if you enjoyed that are you evil? Also most guys base their friendship of being able to hurt and insult each other, most of my friends I hit and insult, I don't go too far to really hurt them but seeing them hurt still makes me laugh until it is taken to certain levels.



However that is because of the part of her humanity they regained, some like Nnoitora regained their stubborness, madness and will to fight whilst others like Nel regained her love and unwillingness to fight. A hollow when they become a arrancar the main thing is they regain part of their humanity and act on that part they regain. Ulquiorra regained his logical behaviour but did not regain compassion or empathy as a result he did not understand their behaviour.



Grimmjow didn't bow down before Ulquiorra because of a dominant personality trait that is his superiority complex, he believes he is superior to Ulquiorra just like Nnoitora, but he still respects Ulquiorra's strength and in fact feared Ulquiorra catching on to what he was doing with Ichigo. Even if they don't blindly follow they respect strength it is like with animals in the wild if you can intimidate them they will back down and through intimidation you can force them into submission like Aizen using his reiatsu to school Grimmy.



The only people who acted in a violent or evil way was Grimm, Nnoitora, Pinky, Tentacle freak and Giant, Grimmy's surbodinates weren't particularly evil neither in fact Grimmy was just aggressive to prove his strength he was Chaotic Good.

Chapter 12 Page 10

A zanpakuto can only cleanse the sins of the hollow after it has become a hollow if it has commited terrible sins during life it is doomed to hell

And I am done with my arguement, shouldn't there be a thread asking if hollows are truly evil? I'm surprised there isn't
Now we're just getting into philosophy, If you go by theories of Yin and Yang, humans are made of a harmony of good and evil, a balance of energies.

Humans are a twisted pile of crap, but its restraint and reason that separates us. If you practice your sadistic tendencies or have constant thought of hurting people, you should be committed to an asylum.
__________________
HayashiTakara is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-13, 18:40   Link #276
Cub-Sama
Member of DOLLARS
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Humans are a twisted pile of crap, but its restraint and reason that separates us. If you practice your sadistic tendencies or have constant thought of hurting people, you should be committed to an asylum.
If it is just anyone that you see you want to hurt then you should be committed into an asylum if it is someone that has wronged you then it isn't as bad because you want to hurt them because of something they have done. There is a very fine line between Revenge and Punishment as well as there is a fine line between what is and is not sadistic behaviour. It depends on the viewpoint of the person like I saw recently a video of how meat is made that was made to advertise vegeterianism, I saw a pigs throat being slit and the pig struggling before dropping to the ground shaking like it was having a seizure and I am not afraid to admit I laughed, doesn't mean I find what happened right. I just laughed cos I thought it was funny some call it a sick sense of humor but for me if it was a human it is not funny.

A lot of people find things done to one thing isn't bad when done to another such as people find it wrong for humans to eat meat but not for an animal like a lion to eat meat.

It all depends on perspective in the end.
__________________

We are DOLLARS, credit for sig goes to CMHerrera-chan
Cub-Sama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-14, 01:37   Link #277
hollowification
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Send a message via MSN to hollowification
do you think next chapter it will asked how he turn into that hollow because we know hollowication he went under while training with the vizard does not look like the form he took in huco mundo maybe.

Maybe because he became vizard and maybe his hollow power grew stronger so he turn into that strongest hollow
__________________
Those who can't see the mirror of the own reflection cannot Reflect the one true self
hollowification is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-14, 04:20   Link #278
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 26
I don't think we'll find out for a long time.
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-14, 05:33   Link #279
ShinAkuma135
King of Beasts
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Inside my head
Send a message via AIM to ShinAkuma135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I don't think we'll find out for a long time.
i agree. like when they showed a glimpse of Hell and we know less about it than we know about isshin or king's realm/king's key. Likely those will be separate arcs with the hollow transformation being explained in a couple of episodes.
ShinAkuma135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-14, 08:49   Link #280
Zu Ra
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
* [MANGA] Bleach Chapter 354 Discussion

Ne Chapter 354 thread up : )
__________________
Zu Ra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weekly chapter discussion, manga

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.