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Old 2009-04-08, 18:53   Link #21
kitten320
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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
That's why i don't like the character named Hinata (trying to avoid hinata's fanboys) she has zero self-esteem and zero personality to show, hence to me, humbly, i think she has little value as a character and i don't understand why so much noise about her.

I would like her if Kishi would put some effort in a character with some personality, i don't know if he tried to show a "delicate" or "timid" person, but he ended with a character with zero personality.

We all like the characters who show some self esteem and "endure" the plot, heroes and villains, it doesn't matter, but to see that kind of characters like Hinata is kinda "meh"...

I Ęthought that Hinata will grow as everybody did it, with some guts, because she is a f*cking ninja and not a character take it from a romantic comedy. Naruto is about Ninjas not about high school girls. Women in Naruto need to be like Temari, even like Tsunade, Shizune, Sakura and Ino (they are medical nin after all).

well, now Hinata's fanboys can start to burning me... (you must catch me first )

PS: Blame Kishi, not me...

I'll gladly hug you insted
Since I don't like Hinata much either. She is way overrated!
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Old 2009-04-08, 20:01   Link #22
Fran~
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It's not about like her or hate her, it's not my intention start a flaming war about Hinata.
It's just a comparison about the development about Hinata, which is zero...

BTW, thanks for the hug =3
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Old 2009-04-08, 20:27   Link #23
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That being said, let us all take a moment of silence for probably the best (fighting) villain in the series: Pain. Orochimaru and Madara may be better at being walking embodiments of evil, but Pain stepped up to the plate of villainy and delivered a much needed homerun hit. So, let us give our respects to this fallen villain...Amen...
Amen brotha....

What sets Pain/Nagato apart from other villains in this manga is that he doesn't simply preach the gospels of pain and hatred, he actually proves his point. Every villain in this manga, or any Shounen really, will talk crap about how loving others is a weakness or worship money and solitude, only to be punked by the heroes a few chapters later, looking like utter fools in the process. They never accomplish anything, don't even manage to kill a single character or make a lasting impact on the protagonist of the story. The villains are always wrong, and the heroes are always 100% proved to be right, just, and pure [Luffy cough cough*]. Theses villains then leave the story or return later on to assist the protagonists, putting a final nail in the already sealed coffin.

Conversely, Pain has pretty much won this mental battle until further notice [We haven't gotten Naruto's answer, yet]. He has accomplished the unthinkable. Committed the ultimate taboo in a Shounen manga. He made the main freaking character...MAIN character did you people read me? Heck, all the supposed "heroes" of this manga, look, blatantly and undeniably, like complete and utter pathetic hypocrites. AND ACTUALLY CALLED THEM OUT ON IT. How did he accomplish this? By actually having the strength to kill off important characters and the whole damn village. He's made not only Tsunade, but even Naruto, the saintly and Jesus-like main character, show their hatred. Unlike other villains, if the heroes disagree with him, he kills first and talks later. Gruesomely sending characters to hell without a second thought, and not giving a pancake about who hates him afterwards; in fact, he wants them to. Notice how effective this method is? After killing numerous amounts of Naruto's comrades and talking him down with irrefutable logic, he has pratically broken him. He has proved himself right, and the "heroes" wrong.
Pain,This man is actually seriously forcing the main characters to question their beliefs, and showing them to not have realistic or truthful answers and reasonings behind their ideologies. This man has single handedly shown that the protagonists of this manga are on the same moral grounds as the villains. Kishimoto has effectively made his entire verse more realistic, all through Pain.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-04-08 at 20:51.
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Old 2009-04-08, 21:44   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
If this is true, this will be the greatest chapter ever.
ummm doubt it because naruto is underage. kishi wouldnt say this. and it would be sake anyway if it was anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
It's not about like her or hate her, it's not my intention start a flaming war about Hinata.
It's just a comparison about the development about Hinata, which is zero...

BTW, thanks for the hug =3
I think her development is only just starting now. she developed a tiny bit over time skip, being a tiny bit more determined. But now that she was able to finally confess her feelings i think it is like a huge weight off her shoulders.
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Last edited by Hunter; 2009-04-08 at 22:33.
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Old 2009-04-08, 22:27   Link #25
Fran~
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Originally Posted by ragnos007 View Post
I think her development is only just starting now. she developed a tiny bit over time skip, being a tiny bit more determined. But now that she was able to finally confess her feelings i think it is like a huge weight off her shoulders.
That's the point... Everybody grow as a ninja and here we are very happy because Hinata confess her feelings?... Hinata will fight some day?... Orihime is anything but "kurosaki-kun", but she can heal him everytime he is "killed". What's Hinata's purpose on Naruto, being a ninja?, being Naruto's wife?... Sakura was so annoying before Shippuuden, but she choose to be a medic-nin (also Ino) and her development is there, you can like Sakura or not, but Kishi gave her some real development... and you can't say that this Sakura is the same Sakura yelling "Sasuke-kun!!!".

I expect in Hinata a heiress from the Hyuuga House and the Byakugan, that's all.
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Old 2009-04-08, 22:32   Link #26
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Nagato certainly never made Naruto an hypocrites. When did Naruto ever did anything bad to anyone? Nagato may have shown that Konoha wasn't some perfect utopia yes but that's hardly news now is it? Or did you miss the fact they were mercenaries in the first place? Or the whole Danzou thing, who brainwashed war orphans and made them kill one another for training? Or the way they handled the Uchiha matter with genocide? Or the fact the Hyuga keep most of their clan in slavery? From what we have seen Konoha is indeed better than most village but it's far from perfect, not by a long shot.
What Nagato did was putting Naruto in front of a seemingly insoluble problem and made him question his own answer.
Nothing less but nothing more, he most certainly didn't end on the same moral ground than the hero because if his question was legitimate his solution was the usual crazed vilain "let's blow up people and things will get better" talk. Which didn't prove him right in the slightest. To be honest I find funny how could anyone call Nagato's demented rant "irrefutable logic".

That said Nagato did do much during his short appearance. Beside the deads laying in in path he blasted the village which will probably be the start of a new Konoha under Naruto's tutelage(!).
A purge by fire of sort to wash the village of its old sins.
He will however completely fail to reach his objective just like every other vilains before him. His mission will be a failure, his plan thwarted, his life ended.

Still, the guy blew up Konoha, you got to love him for that.
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Old 2009-04-08, 23:18   Link #27
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And he smacked Hinita like she owed him money.
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Old 2009-04-08, 23:25   Link #28
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Kishi might just give Hinata some development now. right now you could be certain that in the future Naruto and Hinata have to meet.

i dont believe Hinata will get fight development but in the love department that would be a different story.
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Old 2009-04-09, 00:26   Link #29
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Yeah Hunter, you are correct.
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Old 2009-04-09, 10:24   Link #30
Fran~
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i dont believe Hinata will get fight development but in the love department that would be a different story.
There is love department in shonen action manga?... well, for side characters there is their only development, to be the "wife"... (ala Chichi). What a waste Hinata is... seriously. She has a lot more potential as a character than Sakura, but Kishi failed in leave her just as a Naruto's Fangirl.
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Old 2009-04-09, 10:52   Link #31
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Still, the guy blew up Konoha, you got to love him for that.
QFT

Nagato is the kind of villan you hate to love, not love to hate. You hate the fact that you love how he works and such but he isn't that kind of character that you go, "Oh he's evil! That's cool but he's evil so I don't like him" he doesn't give the same feel as Orochimaru but gives the same one as Itachi...atleast for me.
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Old 2009-04-09, 11:38   Link #32
Fran~
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Im not impressed with Pain/Nagato... since Makoto Shishio there is no villain who can catch my attention in shonen manga.

Destroying Konoha has no value since its pillars are still standing: Tsunade, Naruto, the new generation who can rebuild the buildings. His philosophy is not something original, in that aspect is far surpassed by Shishio... it's sad that Phenomenal changed his signature, but the signature with Shishio's speech to an underling is the most bad ass speech from a villain ever.

Pain putting Naruto in mental distress is not something to be proud, Naruto is a naive kid who thinks in a ideal world, so, Pain's words (even Kabuto's words way before this) were effective on him.

OTOH Makoto Shishio was a dispensable tool who became way too dangerous and that was his only "sin", now the military needs to deal with a powerful guy that they made. Shishio is there with a clever vision for the entire world and even he can put aside his revenge for that vision. If you read or saw "Zipang" (well, it's seinen after all), there is a lot of common points with Kusaka. Compared with that, Pain/Nagato is the archetypical guy who seeks to be right in his beliefs in absolute anything, so cliche.

Forgot something... Aizen >>>>> Pain/Nagato.

And... we need to see what about Madara, so... i don't know, i respect your POV on Pain/Nagato, sameway i do with a lot of Ulquiorra's fans, but to me, both of them are average villains.
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Old 2009-04-09, 11:43   Link #33
kenjiharima
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yes please, i dislike the "Yay I got some spot light time" *stab* "oooh nooo Now i gotta sit in the hospital for several chapters after I just confessed my feelings"

doesn't cut it for me...
Yes that is true. Hope when this arc is finished we'll see more of her. No more dilly dally, needs more air time and development.
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Old 2009-04-09, 18:26   Link #34
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Destroying Konoha has no value since its pillars are still standing: [...]
On the long run perhaps but the sight was sheer awesomeness.

Quote:
Forgot something... Aizen >>>>> Pain/Nagato.
To each his own, I'm not particularly found of Nagato in general to tell the truth, I liked him more when he was this mysterious bogeyman who killed everybody even remotely related to his enemies. It's probably because I'm not really into the whole 6 bodies thing.
But as far as I'm concerned he has a way better characterization than Aizen who is the basic archetype of the big bad villain supposed to be super bad-ass with no personality whatsoever.
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Old 2009-04-09, 20:00   Link #35
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To each his own, I'm not particularly found of Nagato in general to tell the truth, I liked him more when he was this mysterious bogeyman who killed everybody even remotely related to his enemies. It's probably because I'm not really into the whole 6 bodies thing.
But as far as I'm concerned he has a way better characterization than Aizen who is the basic archetype of the big bad villain supposed to be super bad-ass with no personality whatsoever.
We are in agreement. The rare moments are worth noting.

Pein's 6 body gimmic is not my cup of tea. I dislike the creative decisions involved with Pein. But in terms of characterization, his character is far superior to the deus ex machine Aizen.

Aizen has shown no potential weakness and it is so far into the manga since Aizen's introduction so it is rather disappointing.
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Old 2009-04-09, 20:37   Link #36
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Too much talking..there hasn't been enough action...
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Old 2009-04-09, 20:55   Link #37
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Originally Posted by iBeast View Post
Too much talking..there hasn't been enough action...
I'm always like this as well...LOL^^

I like all the villains to tell you the truth [Aizen, Madara/Pain ect]. Cause usually whenever they move they bring action. But I thought it was pretty unique that Nagato made Naruto [The main shonen hero] question himself. Shishio never made kenshin himura question himself at all...Kenshin stayed true top his values.
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Old 2009-04-09, 20:57   Link #38
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@iBeast: There hasn't been enough action...? Did you miss the destruction of Konoha; release of the 6-Tail Kyuubi and then the 8-Tail Kyuubi; and the eventual 'death' of Pain (all in the space of only 20 chapters)? If anything there hasn't been enough conversation (which is about to be rectified with the future discussion between Naruto and Nagato).
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Old 2009-04-09, 21:08   Link #39
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Yeah, that's right James0246!
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Old 2009-04-09, 21:21   Link #40
Fran~
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But I thought it was pretty unique that Nagato made Naruto [The main shonen hero] question himself. Shishio never made kenshin himura question himself at all...Kenshin stayed true top his values.
The difference is between a samurai like a 30 year old Kenshin Himura and a Genin half his age like Naruto Uzumaki...

Kenshin already lived death, he saw the love of his life die in his hands... Kenshin never was so naive as Naruto, in fact, Kenshin was naive before and he loved a woman who was there to kill him. Naruto is now in that stage, he is learning how the world is...

But, Shishio caught my attention because he was a visionary, Watsuki was clever enough to put in Shishio's mind the key to understand how Japan ended in the WWII.

Besides, even in Rurouni Kenshin we saw how Enishi sends Himura to the hell with his first attack... im not enter in that history, but when Villains can do that in a grown man, they earn my respect.

Nagato/Pain/Madara, are dealing with boys... at least that's my point of view.
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