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Old 2013-08-26, 22:18   Link #4341
Chaos2Frozen
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Just want to point out that the "Knowledge of Grimoires" in her head, is not the Grimoires themselves.
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Old 2013-08-26, 22:58   Link #4342
omega253
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Yes, we know, but the knowledge itself still holds some type of distortion on the world when used. And Index is using it when she is in John's Pen Mode.

I can't really talk right now, I'm typing out Chapter 6 of To Ascend. I'm on a roll with how the pace is going.
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Old 2013-08-27, 01:09   Link #4343
demino_hellsin
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I thought that all copies of the grimoire were in some way, alive? And magically active at that. Even in form of memory

I believe Styl demonstrated that a grimoire, so long as containing a magic circle, the necessary incantation and mana, could become a long term grimoire.

Wild theory spinning now.

When index uses magic, remember that john's pen pulls out magic circles from her eyes. Her magicks are also from her arsenal of grimoires. If she only had the. Knowledge of grimoires, why did she not draw the magic circles instead of them just pouring out of her eyes?

My theory is that because separate copies of the grimoires which are just as corruptive and magically powered exist within her, linked to those memories.
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Old 2013-08-27, 01:47   Link #4344
omega253
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Is it really Mass Wild Guessing time already? Huh....

I have a reeaaaaalllly crazy idea for a deviation of this idea. It would also allow Touma to Awaken and get more insight on his abilities and the Invisible Thing.

This is a continuation of the idea that demoni had earlier.

Index in John's Pen Mode does something to take off Touma's right arm. The Invisible Thing comes out and does..... well, something to take away Index's Knowledge of Grimoires and transfer them to Touma. Now, remember that Index also memorized the code in Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law. It had been written by Aleister Crowley, who had been taught by Aiwass.

I have an old theory that I will reiterate.

I believe that the Invisible Thing is to Dragons like Aiwass is to Angels. They both surprisingly share the same language, which is also used to successfully decode the Book of the Law. While the Invisible Thing is still out, it decodes the Book of the Law in Touma's mind and gives him access to it.

Result: He accidentally triggers the Angelic Technique and Awakens.

Now Stiyl and Kanzaki have to deal with Index in John's Pen Mode and a berserker Awakened Touma.

Talk about misfortune for the duo, eh?

Phew, that took a while to get out.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:05   Link #4345
demino_hellsin
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I forgot to mention. In this case of mine, Imagine Breaker unsealed has an effective range of 1 meter in diameter around Kamijou's right hand. Further dispersed negation which can nullify lesser curses can range up to 6 meters in spherical diameter. He learns to channel this field into various shapes and concentrations

Claw is basically IB forming an intangible larger hand that mimics the motions of Kamijou's right hand.

Shield is concentrating the IB into a wall in front of Kamijou's right hand

Field or should I call it jamming is when IB's effective negation is stretched to its limits. This means forcefully rewriting the effectivity and ranges initially mentioned on the IB. Useful in dispelling the connection remote magicks or esper powers and their cores.

Armor turns IB into a field that coats Kamijou, rendering his whole body uneffective by large scale spells. Does not protect him from the collateral damage though. A variation of this is purging which concentrates IB inside of him to dispel curses inside the body.

Sword reduces IB's field of influence into a thin line. This is for negation on a very precise scale. It also provides extended range and an extent of negation that is piercing.

IB unsealed is powerful enough to overpower dragon's breath and innocentius,but it does not negate the pressure they exert on Kamijou's right hand. Rather the rate of negation ensures that no direct contact between Kamijou and these spells and those of similar caliber can occur.

Also, he would destroy the grimoires in index using sword.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:07   Link #4346
omega253
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Huh, I was wondering about that. Wait, how would Imagine Breaker's extreme form deal with Curtana Original? Or the higher levels (yes, there are actually higher levels) of Dragon's Breath? This idea is compelling and must be explored!

Also, was my Touma Awakening idea valid guesswork?

Edit: I think I might have already pulled something resembling your Shield and Armor idea in my fic, To Ascend. And I probably already demonstrated something resembling Claw in Chapter 5. Sorry
I am using what you basically call Shield and Armor for the Imagine Breaker to put in OP!Touma vs John'sPen!Index fight scene.

The chapter isn't finished writing yet, so I can edit it so that you can use the ideas for yourself. But is it okay if I use these for the Imagine Breaker in my story, To Ascend, or no?

Last edited by omega253; 2013-08-27 at 02:19.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:18   Link #4347
demino_hellsin
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Curtana original would break on contact with the field. At the point of combat, Carissa would have more than enough information on Kamijou to know how to properly fight him.

Jamming the buff to the knights could be an effective strategy and so would jamming the buffs on Carissa herself. However jamming is difficult to aim and maintain. Kamijou would get his butt whooped while he was aiming. Also the range and scope would be limited too.

Though the theory is properly built, I think its still a bit wonky. The invisible thing is only assumed to be a dragon due to the aurelious incident. We don't even know if it really is a dragon at all. It sure acts like it when it roared and moved to bite and stuff but there is no real evidence of its form. Connecting it to Aleister is plausible as he has interest in IB so he should know about why Touma has it. Overall, there is still lacking information so I would say its a bit wonky?
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:21   Link #4348
omega253
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Yeah, I guess so. By the way, check out the edit I put for my post earlier. I added something involving your Imagine Breaker variations.

If you don't want me to do anything involving them in my story, then I will take them out and just put something different.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:25   Link #4349
demino_hellsin
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Sure. I'm the one late to the party anyway

But considering your Kamijou has super speed and super strength and practical invincibility, I can't really see why he needs them.

The idea of IB variations is based on what Ollerus said, that IB has existed throughout history in one shape or another.

Since IB is stronger so is the invisible thing. Once IB was once deployed against dragon's breath, the invisible thing tried to escape while its jailer was busy. So this leads to Touma feeling like his shoulder would blow up.

Oh yeah, the negation of luck is also taken to extremes. Kamijou has no good luck, but he also has no bad luck. Effectively, he becomes free from the concept of fate and possibility.

Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2013-08-27 at 02:54.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:35   Link #4350
omega253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Sure. I'm the one late to the party anyway

But considering your Kamijou has super speed and super strength and practical invincibility, I can't really see why he needs them.
If he didn't have the Imagine Breaker, then he'd suffer Clothing Damage in nearly every battle, for one. We don't want the Kami-yan disease going off in every battle. In my fic, I don't want to obsess over the whole concept of 'Touma is OP'. Although I think I might be failing in that regard. Touma is not going to flaunt his strength around like some people do in their OP character fics. He will be awesome, I can guarantee that.

Also, Imagine Breaker is practically like a trademark to our dear Kami-yan, no?

I will make sure to give you credit for the ideas when I post the chapter up, though.
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:00   Link #4351
demino_hellsin
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Is there a fanfic where Touma failed to save index?
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:02   Link #4352
omega253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
Is there a fanfic where Touma failed to save index?
Nope, none that I'm aware of. On the Spacebattles version of this thread, they did discuss the idea, but it faded to other ideas.
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:04   Link #4353
allfictions
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega253 View Post
Nope, none that I'm aware of. On the Spacebattles version of this thread, they did discuss the idea, but it faded to other ideas.
It devolved into ''how to kill Accelerator'' didn't it?
That happens, like, every 3 weeks.
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:08   Link #4354
omega253
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I'm not a member of Spacebattles, but yes, it usually degenerated to that. But there was this one fanfiction idea that caught my attention.

This was an AU fic idea that involves the Shin Megami Tensei series.

Touma got turned into the Demi-Fiend and Lucifer sealed up his powers with the Imagine Breaker after Touma revived the world from the Vortex. The Demi-Fiend was a being that Lucifer had created with the magatama to kill God.

Interesting enough? It would also bring up the chance to include demons, gods, and angels (besides Gabriel).
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:11   Link #4355
demino_hellsin
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The problem of that is proceeding with plot that isn't a generic rip-off of a SMT game. I am having that trouble with Devil Survivor Ruiko.

My interest in Touma that failed to save index is that he said he would be stronger and save her the next time. Does this mean he'd go down Aurelious route? Would he still save the people he did? How would he become stronger?
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:16   Link #4356
allfictions
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Well, I know next to nothing about the Shin Megami Tensei series so I cannot comment, sorry

But one idea I saw and that looked interesting was a BioShock/ToAru Crossover.

The idea of the poster was that Academy City was part of the BioShock Multi Verse. His reasoning also made a lot of sense: among other things, he argued that some Bioshock related ideas are already at play in Index/Railgun proper, like the similarly themed stories about the expendability of commodified young girls, for example, with Bioshock's little sisters and the MISAKA Sisters of Index.

Another part of his theory:
Quote:
The recently released Bioshock Infinite introduced a broader multiverse of supercities where "there's always a lighthouse, always a man, always a city." The details are specific enough and yet also vague enough that they could be applied to a number of other properties (the "lighthouse" doesn't have to be a literal lighthouse and can be likened to the Windowless Bulding or, with the release of the movie, even to the Space Elevator Endymion; the "man" could just as easily refer to the city's founder as it could be an analogue of Jack/Booker Dewitt, be it Kamijou Touma, Accelerator, or Hamazura Shiage). With that in mind, Academy City wouldn't necessarily take place in the same universe as either Columbia or Rapture but is, rather, another alternate version of the same scenario with similar characters and focusing on the constants between the two game settings:

-Warring ideologies
-Potentially harmful superpowers in a bottle/syringe (Level Upper on the streets in lieu of the plasmids)
-The city as false/failed utopia
-The violent revolt of an abused underclass, etc.
A shame he didn't follow through with it, it looked damn cool.
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:23   Link #4357
omega253
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It would take drastic work of an expert who knows the ins and outs of both franchises though.

And Hellsin, maybe Touma would get a message from Aleister about a proposal. Touma gets the information he needs to use the Imagine Breaker to its full potential and Aleister has him do a special job or two.

Maybe Aiwass is the one who somehow contacts Touma and tells him about the Imagine Breaker, instead?

Ahh, so many possibilities.
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:26   Link #4358
demino_hellsin
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I had this really stupid idea...

Imagine Breaker's negation is proportional to the force it is applied to the object ^-^....D:
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:34   Link #4359
jalvin_billster1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
I had this really stupid idea...

Imagine Breaker's negation is proportional to the force it is applied to the object ^-^....D:
Can you rephrase ^ the above please, its not registering in my mind?
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Old 2013-08-28, 22:38   Link #4360
omega253
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Basically, the stronger the supernatural attack that hits the Imagine Breaker, the stronger its nullification is.

It's not stupid, it's unique.
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