AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-12, 01:24   Link #281
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
A major difference in military spending between the US and China is a matter of scale. China's military is fairly local and concentrated. The US military is all over the freaking planet and has been for a half century. Particularly in Europe (countering the Soviets) and in Japan and Korea (and formerly Vietnam and the Philippines)...also to counter the Soviets, and later China and North Korea. Plus the Navy wonders the oceans in a manner like the Royal Navy use to do before World War II.

Bunches of that were pulled back after the Russians stabilized a bit after the Soviets fell. But after all the Middle East troubles, the US military as been redeployed there while maintianing less forces in Europe and having closed a bunch of bases down in the 1990s (there is no viable naval base between San Diego and Bremerton on the West Coast anymore, which means from the Canadian border to the Mexican border).

With the US military spread out, it isn't as concentrated as the Chinese military (and thus the Chinese can afford to spend less while being potentially stronger at that location).
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 06:32   Link #282
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
So but Muslims are reading this...
I believe he is being sarcastic on this bro, so chill out.

As much as I support the Muslim culture because of the legality to marry lolis, have multiple wives, plus marrying your adorable little direct relative is perfectly okay, I think the "mass breeding" is a common scourge because it leads to recessive genes from passing down and increases the chances of hereditary disease.

No offense, though I see that to be quite a problem for a culture as old as their Abrahamic counterparts; it spoils the beauty of it the same way evangelists attempting mass-conversion.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 06:37   Link #283
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I believe he is being sarcastic on this bro, so chill out.

As much as I support the Muslim culture because of the legality to marry lolis, have multiple wives, plus marrying your adorable little direct relative is perfectly okay, I think the "mass breeding" is a common scourge because it leads to recessive genes from passing down and increases the chances of hereditary disease.

No offense, though I see that to be quite a problem for a culture as old as their Abrahamic counterparts; it spoils the beauty of it the same way evangelists attempting mass-conversion.
Just this once..... I actually uhmm... you know.. anyway... I prefer an adult wife... a single wife.... I have the fetish in my closet or my notebook computer.... Thoughm you could say we're lucky to have the privilage.... nevrmind.. I'm against it... period....

meanwhile.....

"Is that Psy?!"
Quote:
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un uses a pair of binoculars to look south as he inspects a military post near the border with South Korea on March 7, 2013. Military tensions on the Korean peninsula have
NoemiChan is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 06:41   Link #284
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Just this once..... I actually uhmm... you know.. anyway... I prefer an adult wife... a single wife.... I have the fetish in my closet or my notebook computer....
You are a bad Muslim. Ridwan, he has committed something impure! Bring on the religious police!
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 06:45   Link #285
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
I'd rather a muslim North Korea then Kim's, if you ask me. I'm a beardy arab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You are a bad Muslim. Ridwan, he has committed something impure! Bring on the religious police!
It's okay as long as he keeps boy concubines.
__________________
Ridwan is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 06:46   Link #286
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
It's okay as long as he keeps boy concubines.
Oh, no, no. no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You are a bad Muslim. Ridwan, he has committed something impure! Bring on the religious police!
It's just anime!
NoemiChan is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 08:42   Link #287
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
You sure have a funny way of defining "cripple".
Let me think. For 4 (Or was 12) men with box cutters, they were able to

-Destroy U.S Landmarks and kill several thousand

-Promote Anti Americanism to the Nth power, now entire generation grown up hating the Americans in the Arab worlds.

-Cost U.S 5 Trillion (depend on who is counting) on a decade long war. Sapped massive amount of resource that could be devoted to other means.

-Loss of U.S moral high ground. U.S use to be able to criticize the Chinese and other malcontents on human rights. No quite work anymore with CIA black sites, prisons without due cause, drone attacks on innocent civilians.

-Loss of civil liberties, the erosion of constitutional rights in the name of national security.

Face it, yes, you still have a country with a good economy, but the U.S of 9/10/2001 is a way different country than 9/11/2001...and not for a good reason.

Quote:
I don't think all the people that died in proxy wars instead were thrilled with the "peace".
I doubt they were fans of the idea to have their country embroiled in a hot war instead with U.S and USSR shelling each other. I hate proxy wars too, but the alternative- and WWII scale warfare....humanity cannot afford another one.

Quote:
Because Pakistan is still seen as an "useful" ally in fighting the terrorists in Afghanistan (though how useful is questionable), not because they have nukes.
Or because they have nukes and we couldn't dare to leave them to spin in the wind. As a political tool, it worked great for Pak, but not for a more powerful (U.S), thus proving my point, it provide a great card to keep for your country because a larger power wouldn't dare as much to screw around with you. U.S probably isn't drilled with the idea though.
Quote:
I highly doubt the prospect of a nuclear armageddon that'll wipe humanity off the face of the planet(or at least, those countries off the map) makes one sleep soundly at night
And it go back to my argument of a mexican standoff. If one of the party don't have a nuke, the other parties can push you around and make absurd demands. Look at North Korea. Now apply to India and China.

India: My Borders is 40 miles toward yours.

China: Says who? The UN claim is 20 miles here at line XXX

India: I have nukes.

China:.....

Now in the same situation

China: I have nukes too, wanna play the game of nuclear tic-tac?

India: You know what? Lets just declare the area between us shared at YYY point instead.

Do you see the difference now?

Quote:
Nevermind the hilarity of taking any number released by the Chinese government at face value (These bubbling, toxic smelling water which kills fish in hours is perfectly safe for human consumption!), expanding Chinese military capability combined with the way China is asserting its influence in the region does pose a potential military threat to the US in the region.
And how much of the U.S budget is dollar for dollar and not black projects? Are the CIA black sites on the official American budget?

Take Carriers for example. China have 1, 1 not work carrier for experiment and training. America have 17.

Why does it worry the world when China have a similar border to defend as America, but building an carrier is a dangerous threat?
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 10:24   Link #288
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
And it go back to my argument of a mexican standoff. If one of the party don't have a nuke, the other parties can push you around and make absurd demands. Look at North Korea. Now apply to India and China.

India: My Borders is 40 miles toward yours.

China: Says who? The UN claim is 20 miles here at line XXX

India: I have nukes.

China:.....

Now in the same situation

China: I have nukes too, wanna play the game of nuclear tic-tac?

India: You know what? Lets just declare the area between us shared at YYY point instead.

Do you see the difference now?
Ironically enough, PRC was the one pushing around India before the nuclear cards came into play.
Sumeragi is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 10:36   Link #289
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Ironically enough, PRC was the one pushing around India before the nuclear cards came into play.
It does not matter India pushed China or India pushing Pakistan, we can debate who is right in that particular dispute later in a separate thread. I cited it only as a theoretical example on why nuclear weapons are needed. The three nations in question can be America, Russia, and the space men from Mars for all the difference it makes.

If one guy have a nuclear card to play, the other two better have nuclear cards to play to even things out. The idea that one guy CAN have nukes but others can't is just a way to let the powerful keep their power so they can dictate terms to the weak.

Also, you hate China, I get it :P, so let me put it in a different scenario.

If China was the first nation to build the bomb for Mao instead and no one else figure it out, would the rest the world sleep easier knowing China would always use this weapon responsibly?

Or would they begin research for the bomb immediately? Sometimes you have to walk in the shoes of the other party to understand how they think. And I fully believe every nation is entitled to the Bomb...unless every other nation agree to disarm first.
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 11:15   Link #290
Tom Bombadil
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Pushing around India? Is there any fact in such statements? Have you ever heard of something called "forward policy" and what it does? Do you know what each side's stance before the 1962 war, and what the situation after it?
__________________
Tom Bombadil is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 11:16   Link #291
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Also, you hate China, I get it :P, so let me put it in a different scenario.
Can you like a country without liking it's government? Or it's current policies?
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 11:28   Link #292
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
I'm not sure this thread is about North Korea anymore since, frankly, everything matters that needs to be covered about North Korea has been covered. It's an unfortunate happenstance. It has been around for a rather bit too long. It has acquired nuclear card. It relies on 1984-ish system to keep existing and it needs to threaten the neighborhood to keep itself fed. And ultimately, it's a nasty can of worms nobody really wants to open, a regrettable existence.

Since we already know everything about it, all is left to keep this thread afloat is apparently either stretching the discussion far far away to the unrelated parts of the world or keep beating the dead horses, all with the sincerity of debating for the sake of debating. Well, it's not like such thing is a concern here, or in 99% of the internet for that matter.

Despite everything, I still think it'll be nice if people can refrain from making what could've been an actually informationally fruitful, intellectually rewarding discussion into an endless cycle of going no where. It's easy actually. Just stop treating it like a middle school debate class or any other variety of self-esteem exercise.
__________________
Ridwan is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 11:39   Link #293
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Can you like a country without liking it's government? Or it's current policies?
Of course not.

Everyone know you are an anti-semite-Hitler-kissing Nazi if you don't support the state of Israel.

When you are against AMERICA, YOU HATE FREEDOM, LIBERTY, AND APPLE PIE.
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 12:22   Link #294
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Also, you hate China, I get it :P, so let me put it in a different scenario.
I was just amused at the specific example. I know what the purpose of the example was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Pushing around India? Is there any fact in such statements? Have you ever heard of something called "forward policy" and what it does? Do you know what each side's stance before the 1962 war, and what the situation after it?
Line of Actual Control. Need anything more?
Sumeragi is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 12:37   Link #295
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I was just amused at the specific example. I know what the purpose of the example was.




Line of Actual Control. Need anything more?
So India---with the help of the British, decided Line was at point A. China disagreed and said it was B. India had the warning, the chance to prep-and then promptly lost the game. We should at this point never trust the British to draw any line on a map. See: Israel/Palestine, Pakistan/India, India/China.

Also, India started their nuclear weapon programs in the 1940s, before there was a PRC. How could you argue they built a nuke to respond to China when China didn't even exist?
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 13:06   Link #296
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
So India---with the help of the British, decided Line was at point A. China disagreed and said it was B. India had the warning, the chance to prep-and then promptly lost the game.
Basic point was that PRC was certainly not a victim here, especially given how it managed to get a border with India in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
We should at this point never trust the British to draw any line on a map. See: Israel/Palestine, Pakistan/India, India/China.
I can agree only on Israel/Palestine. The other two were done by the actual actors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Also, India started their nuclear weapon programs in the 1940s, before there was a PRC. How could you argue they built a nuke to respond to China when China didn't even exist?
If you're seriously mixing up nuclear energy program with nuclear weapon program, I have to say you need to look at things a bit more.
Sumeragi is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 13:31   Link #297
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Basic point was that PRC was certainly not a victim here, especially given how it managed to get a border with India in the first place.
At least part of it was due a British invasion of Burma.

Quote:
The other two were done by the actual actors.
Pakistan was created by the British. They drew the damn line.

Quote:
If you're seriously mixing up nuclear energy program with nuclear weapon program, I have to say you need to look at things a bit more.
During this time, Bhabha played a key role in convincing the Congress Party's senior leaders, most notable Jawaharlal Nehru who later served as India's first Premier, to start the ambitious nuclear programme. As part of this vision, Bhabha established the Cosmic Ray Research Unit at the institute, began to work on the theory of the movement of point particles, while independently conduct research on nuclear weapons in 1944

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homi_Je...ower_Programme

So Nuclear weapon started in 1944. It is not China's fault they didn't get it working until the 70s, 10 years after the China/India war
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 13:49   Link #298
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
At least part of it was due a British invasion of Burma.
And what border conflicts did Burma and PRC have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Pakistan was created by the British. They drew the damn line.
Pakistan was created by no other than the All-India Muslim League. When you have two opposite organizations pushing for independence, who are you going to blame?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
During this time, Bhabha played a key role in convincing the Congress Party's senior leaders, most notable Jawaharlal Nehru who later served as India's first Premier, to start the ambitious nuclear programme. As part of this vision, Bhabha established the Cosmic Ray Research Unit at the institute, began to work on the theory of the movement of point particles, while independently conduct research on nuclear weapons in 1944

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homi_Je...ower_Programme

So Nuclear weapon started in 1944. It is not China's fault they didn't get it working until the 70s, 10 years after the China/India war
And you're taking Wikipedia literally without actually checking the source? The source material has nothing about 1944, which was when the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research was established.

Jeez, and I thought you were better than that.
Sumeragi is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 15:39   Link #299
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Um, the wiki source included documents from DE-classified CIA sources citing U.S 1950s intel documents that India may have been working on the bomb, but difficult to prove since many technologies for A-Bomb have dual use purposes.

Here is a separate website

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/IndiaOrigin.html

Which also quote 1946.

Quote:
1954 the Indian nuclear program began to move in a direction that would eventually lead to establishment of nuclear weapons capability. On 3 January 1954 the IAEC decided to set up a new facility - the Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay (AEET), later to become the "Indian Los Alamos". On 3 August 1954 the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) was created with Dr. Bhabha as Secretary. This department answered directly to the Prime Minister and has continued to do so down to the present day.
And here is another one

http://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet...1&excerpt=true

Which actually suggest U.S's antagonism toward India and support for Pakistan is what accelerated the weapon program.

Finally, as I stated earlier, many of India's energy research can be argued to be "dual purpose"just like what is pissing of America/Israel vs Iran. To say that 100% of India's program was peaceful before War with China is just silly.
ArchmageXin is offline  
Old 2013-03-12, 16:28   Link #300
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Finally, as I stated earlier, many of India's energy research can be argued to be "dual purpose"just like what is pissing of America/Israel vs Iran. To say that 100% of India's program was peaceful before War with China is just silly.
It's sillier to argue that dual purpose automatically equals actual weapon development, which is what your argument amounts.
Sumeragi is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.