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Old 2009-11-18, 03:55   Link #261
shmaster
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Maybe I am reading too much. But from the way Alister had described, I always feel Imagine Breaker works by "emiting" something to cancel out the paranormal. It does not neutralize it, not absorb it, but cancel them out with another force. In other words, Imagine Breaker's power is deteremined how much that soemthing is emited in a certain amount fo time, and paranormal effects more abundant than that soemthing is produced cannot be cancel out.
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Old 2009-11-18, 09:11   Link #262
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Maybe I am reading too much. But from the way Alister had described, I always feel Imagine Breaker works by "emiting" something to cancel out the paranormal. It does not neutralize it, not absorb it, but cancel them out with another force. In other words, Imagine Breaker's power is deteremined how much that soemthing is emited in a certain amount fo time, and paranormal effects more abundant than that soemthing is produced cannot be cancel out.
Maybe another form of energy?? But, which one could be? Is a mistery for now.
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Last edited by Miraluka; 2009-11-18 at 21:03.
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Old 2009-11-18, 15:51   Link #263
Keroko
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Canceling is close. Remember, psychic powers (and most likely magic too) are the users imagination made real. What imagine breaker does is break that imagination and return it back to no reality. It also fits with the 'I'll destroy that dream' trademark Touma line.
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Old 2009-11-18, 19:36   Link #264
velvet nightmare
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chances are it's not an emission or else he wouldnt use the palm of his hand every time

if it was emission he could just as well just the back of his hand and achieve the same effect which we have not seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Remember, psychic powers (and most likely magic too) are the users imagination made real.
too bad that doesn't apply to accelerator

touma cant cancel naturally occurring phenomenon even if powers assisted in creating it
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Old 2009-11-18, 22:55   Link #265
Wrath88
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Originally Posted by velvet nightmare View Post
touma cant cancel naturally occurring phenomenon even if powers assisted in creating it
If that's the case, he shouldn't be able to block Misaka's railgun attack right? Her powers are used to provide the propulsion for the coin, so once its launched, it can't be cancelled?
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Old 2009-11-18, 23:14   Link #266
Miraluka
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The coin after the shot is still being propulsed by the electricy around it.
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Old 2009-11-18, 23:43   Link #267
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet nightmare View Post
chances are it's not an emission or else he wouldnt use the palm of his hand every time
Touma also uses his fists. When it said his right hand cancels it means his whole right hand. Here is the thing. Any action to do with AIM Fields, Mana etc... Touma's right hand can cancel.
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Old 2009-11-19, 03:43   Link #268
Keroko
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Originally Posted by velvet nightmare View Post
too bad that doesn't apply to accelerator

touma cant cancel naturally occurring phenomenon even if powers assisted in creating it
And yet, as I've noted before many times, he has already done so repeatedly. He completely negated Sasha's water strike, which follows exactly the same principle as Accelerator's attack: Manipulate an existing object into striking your enemy. Likewise he was able to completely stop a golem dead in its tracks merely be touching it and in the Railgun manga (which was written by Kamachi as well) shows Touma stopping a Railgun blast dead in its tracks.

As long as the object being manipulated is a direct effect (in other words, the casters imagination) he can stop it.
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Old 2009-11-19, 15:49   Link #269
Dean_the_Young
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Sasha's water strikes were constantly propelled and held together by supernatural effort, though, while Accelerator's influence leaves the objects as soon as it goes. Different principle.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:08   Link #270
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Sasha's water strikes were constantly propelled and held together by supernatural effort, though, while Accelerator's influence leaves the objects as soon as it goes. Different principle.
Its true.

and in battle of touma vs accelerator. Accelerator attack by numbers like the pile of rocks and in the OP. He uses huge metal bars.

Even if touma cancels a one or two with his right hand. The pure number will overwhelm him. And in case he cancels huge metal bars control over it. The initial force will still hurt him and accelerators ability is completely different. The effect only last by altering the direction. So Once altered the matter will follow that path and that's all.

That's why in the battle of touma vs accelerator. The thing that touma can only do is avoid it and run from it. Unlike his previews battle and battle against biribiri which her whole ability is the production of her own attacks. Those huge lightning volts are directly affected by her power which results in total uselessness against touma.
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Old 2009-11-19, 16:57   Link #271
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
Sasha's water strikes were constantly propelled and held together by supernatural effort, though, while Accelerator's influence leaves the objects as soon as it goes. Different principle.
Actually, no, even if Touma removed the constant propellant, this should not remove the momentum of the water, leaving the attack with the same impact. Yet, it did.

That said, where has it been said that Accelerator's influence leaves the object as soon as it goes? I must have missed that...
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:15   Link #272
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Hmmm... Perhaps if Touma negates a power, he negates all effects of that power?
Like with the Railgun the light show that goes along with it is probably Mikoto continuing to accelerate it to negate air resistance or something, thus Imagine Breaker comes in contact with that force and thus negates the momentum caused by that force, same with the Golem and the Water attack. But with Accelerator the vector is changed and that's the end of it, since the power is not continually applied he can't negate the power and thus can't negate momentum caused by the power.

The issue with this though is I am not sure how to apply it to the explosion in the department store, so yeah.

There is also the very likely "Crap Giant I-beams are coming towards me, and I don't know for sure if I can stop them, I'm not taking chances since I can just dodge them." possibility, which means he could have stopped them but didn't.
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Old 2009-11-19, 17:26   Link #273
eiyuu99
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Psychic power is stated to make things happen.
If Accelerator's influence leaves the objects as soon as it goes,
then the changed direction, caused by Accelerator, should cease to happen as soon as it goes.

Last edited by eiyuu99; 2009-11-19 at 17:39.
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Old 2009-11-19, 23:24   Link #274
velvet nightmare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
The coin after the shot is still being propulsed by the electricy around it.
that's not what an actual "rail gun" does, and chances are the author messed up that point too



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Actually, no, even if Touma removed the constant propellant, this should not remove the momentum of the water, leaving the attack with the same impact. Yet, it did.

That said, where has it been said that Accelerator's influence leaves the object as soon as it goes? I must have missed that...
im going to try and simplify what i believe his hand does (an amalgamation of a bunch of theories):

if power A causes effect B then touma cant block B unless power A is required to sustain effect B, then he is able to return effect B to it's previous/original state

in sasha's case, i'm pretty sure that magic is required to sustain and manipulate the water and that's why touma can negate the magic at point of contact

in railgun's case, once the actual coin is shot, it's gone, the power has done it's deed and is in no way connected to its movement anymore after the initial acceleration, therefore it cannot be blocked and would be no different than him blocking a regular mechanical rail gun

same with accelerator, it's like him just being really strong and kicking steal beams, it's already in the air, end of story, it falls under the jurisdiction of newton's laws of motion now
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Old 2009-11-20, 02:10   Link #275
DarknessLord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet nightmare View Post
that's not what an actual "rail gun" does, and chances are the author messed up that point too

...

in railgun's case, once the actual coin is shot, it's gone, the power has done it's deed and is in no way connected to its movement anymore after the initial acceleration, therefore it cannot be blocked and would be no different than him blocking a regular mechanical rail gun
The difference between Mikoto and a regular Railgun, is that her gun requires no physical parts aside from it's ammo, there is no reason for her to stop exerting force on the object, her "barrel" continues as far as the ranger of her powers, which considering what we have seen probably extends beyond the point where the coin disintegrates.
This works with the visual of the "laser beam" thing we have see as well as why Touma DID block in the Railgun Manga.
If we consider this, than the power A is still sustaining effect B, so Touma can stop it.
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Old 2009-11-20, 03:16   Link #276
MrTerrorist
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Speaking of the manga, how many are anticipating this week episode of Railgun since the infamous bridge scene is coming which one question that lead to the birth of this sub-forum:

Can Touma really block Mikoto's railgun or not?
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Old 2009-11-20, 05:57   Link #277
tsunade666
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is the next episode about touma and mikoto in the bridge? I only see a alley way their.

Can I ask a question...... when did touma block the RAILGUN? I think he did block a tons of lightning volts with billions or millions on it but I can't seem to remember him blocking the railgun itself.

Well I still think he can block the railgun because its a continuous electric charge from biribiri. Like a laser beam but if the coin itself has the momentum of its own. It can hurt touma but still without the power behind it. Its initial strength should decrease dramatically to the point he should have blocked it.
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Old 2009-11-20, 06:31   Link #278
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Can I ask a question...... when did touma block the RAILGUN? I think he did block a tons of lightning volts with billions or millions on it but I can't seem to remember him blocking the railgun itself.
Railgun manga I think.

What is so interesting with Mikoto ignorant of IB is that she thinks Touma can take away her powers permanently.
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Old 2009-11-20, 08:00   Link #279
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet nightmare View Post
im going to try and simplify what i believe his hand does (an amalgamation of a bunch of theories):

if power A causes effect B then touma cant block B unless power A is required to sustain effect B, then he is able to return effect B to it's previous/original state

in sasha's case, i'm pretty sure that magic is required to sustain and manipulate the water and that's why touma can negate the magic at point of contact

in railgun's case, once the actual coin is shot, it's gone, the power has done it's deed and is in no way connected to its movement anymore after the initial acceleration, therefore it cannot be blocked and would be no different than him blocking a regular mechanical rail gun

same with accelerator, it's like him just being really strong and kicking steal beams, it's already in the air, end of story, it falls under the jurisdiction of newton's laws of motion now
And yet Touma did block a Railgun blast. So obviously there is a constant power at work.

The explanation for this is quite simple, just because Mikoto or Accelerator is not actively channeling the coin, that still doesn't change that the coin moving at that speed is doing so because of an unnatural phenomenon. Or rather, the coin moving at that speed is the unnatural phenomenon. The moment Touma touches that coin, the phenomenon is broken and the coin returns to reality, meaning zero movement.

After that, gravity takes over and the coin falls to the ground.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2009-11-20 at 08:33.
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Old 2009-11-20, 12:26   Link #280
velvet nightmare
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obviously she blocked her shot, but she still DOES NOT do what a real life rail gun does, instead she is "insert whatever term you want here for whatever technology which applies constant acceleration to a projectile" and that would be a rocket or a missile


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post

The explanation for this is quite simple, just because Mikoto or Accelerator is not actively channeling the coin, that still doesn't change that the coin moving at that speed is doing so because of an unnatural phenomenon. Or rather, the coin moving at that speed is the unnatural phenomenon. The moment Touma touches that coin, the phenomenon is broken and the coin returns to reality, meaning zero movement.

After that, gravity takes over and the coin falls to the ground.
except he can't block accelerator's attacks or else he would laugh off the flying steel objects

whichever way you look at it, bottom line is there is an inconsistency between accelerator and rail gun
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