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Old 2009-04-21, 01:02   Link #61
meh
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
If you must know, I work as a game purchaser for a retail chain. And I've seen the sales of my PSP Hardware plummeted when we switch from 2K to 3K completely at the end of last year. If need to, I can provide the sales data when I turn up for work the very next morning.

If the 3K model is hacked, all the more better for my hardwares sales. But it will be bad for my software side since that's where the majority of the incomes for my department lies.
I don't understand this logic. All it says is that many people want PSP hacked. But not WHY they want the system hacked. You basically assumed "hack psp = pirate gamer", which so many posts in this thread have disproved over and over.

I know for a long time PSP had trouble with developers because people can pirate so easily. And one of the reasons why I detest pirating PSP games, as it results in less games being made. But "majority" of PSP owners is a very high and seemingly unrealistic number.
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Old 2009-04-21, 01:29   Link #62
Jan-Poo
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Indeed considering that many people here are suggesting the OP to buy a PSP2000 i'm really not surprised that the PSP3000 didn't sell that good so far, the only major difference between the two is that the PSP3000 is harder to hack, why would one prefer it?

Your claim that it is only because of pirated game needs more support. I actually claim that if it wasn't for Dark Alex the whole PSP sales would have been 75% of what they are now or even lower. At least about myself i'm definitely sure i wouldn't have bought a PSP but a GP2X instead.
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Old 2009-04-21, 19:14   Link #63
MakubeX2
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http://kotaku.com/5221988/sony-psp-p...-are-sickening

Now, if 50% or more of those modded PSP ownders actually buy some stuffs, I don't see Sony's Sales Rep actually making that kind of comment as with the case of PS1 and PS2.

One can argue about the lack of quality software on the platform, but let just see if Dissidia actually makes waves later this year as it should.
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Old 2009-04-21, 22:41   Link #64
DragoonKain3
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I'm not going to lie... I see the PSP going the same direction the Dreamcast was headed. Both are systems that can be easily be 'modded' by anyone with an internet connection, using only the tools/hardware most people currently have. As such, piracy is rampant with these systems, in comparison to other systems of its time.

Of course, I'm not also going to lie in that I really do think the reason for the PSP not having as much games is not mainly because of piracy, but because the year after year of ass kicking its gotten from the DS is finally catching up to it. And unlike the Wii, the DS is as catered (if not more) to the gamer audience as the PSP is, thus there's really very little incentive to make games for the PSP on top of the piracy problem.

In that way, I really do think that the PSP to the DS is more like the Game Gear was to the Game Boy, rather than its like the Dreamcast was to the PSX/N64.
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Old 2009-04-21, 23:19   Link #65
meh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
http://kotaku.com/5221988/sony-psp-p...-are-sickening

Now, if 50% or more of those modded PSP ownders actually buy some stuffs, I don't see Sony's Sales Rep actually making that kind of comment as with the case of PS1 and PS2.
Let's look at that piece.

"just about ready to jump off the cliff and pull support for the platform," some of which may be chalked up to massive amounts of PSP software piracy.

Notice the use of "some". There are other factors. And although I'm no insider, I'd assume that the biggest factor is DS kicking PSP's ass in terms of sales.

"piracy has taken out a big chunk of our software sales on PSP"

Doesn't really say anything, besides that there are pirates. "Big chunk" does not denote "majority". It doesn't even mean "a lot" depending on who's saying it.

"We can look at data from BitTorrent sites from the day Resistance: Retribution goes on sale and see how many copies are being downloaded illegally, and it's frankly sickening.

Well, I'm sure Nintendo execs would find the number of people downloading Zelda games illegally also sickening. As would Microsoft in regards to Halo games.
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Old 2009-04-21, 23:33   Link #66
Jan-Poo
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This is a joke isn't it?

Playing ripped games on the DS is a lot easier than playing them on a PSP. If piracy was really the reason behind the failure of a console system then the DS would be the first to suffer from it.

Ah and between Saturn N64 and PSX is it there any doubt about which console system was the most modded to play pirated games?

Now if we were talking about games i could understand, but correlation between piracy and a console success? I would say that there is a positive correlation rather than a negative.
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Old 2009-04-22, 07:47   Link #67
DragoonKain3
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For the DS, you have to buy the special cart, which costs a hefty sum (last time I checked, ~150 bucks) PLUS you have to buy the memstick for it. Not to mention the trouble of actually finding someone that sells it... it being illegal and all, it actually takes some work to find it.

For the PSP, you already have a memstick anyways, since its required to save games. There's no 'added expenditure' for it. This in turn means that the availability is much higher than the DS, as someone could just go to the net to CFW up their PSP. And within 15 minutes to an hour (depending on how tech savvy the person is), they have CFW already.


And really, its not the amount of pirating that goes on with the system that matters, but the percentage of those console owners who actually pirates their games for the system. Popular systems with popular games will always get pirated more than the unpopular ones, after all.

For example, say system A has a 10 mil worldwide user base, and around 2 mil pirates their games. Now system B has a 2 mil worlwide user base, but 1.5 mil pirates their games. Who do you think is better off?

While the numbers aren't that extreme, the DS falls more to the former category while the PSP (like the dreamcast) falls to the latter. Well, that's the general trend in my area anyways.
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Old 2009-04-22, 08:18   Link #68
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$150... that must be some kind of mistake... with a decent 2gb micro sd you would be looking at around $30 American max
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Old 2009-04-22, 08:48   Link #69
DragoonKain3
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Granted, last time I checked was a year or so ago. My friend got an R4 from a dealer at ~150 bucks, and he was that desperate because he doesn't trust the net (especially with this kind of dealings) and that every other person he knew that sold it currently didn't have it in stock then. It dind't even come with an SD card lol.

But as with other technologies, I'm not too surprised at the price drop, as year is very long in terms of technology time.
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Old 2009-04-22, 09:18   Link #70
Jan-Poo
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I don't think you understand the trouble needed to instal a CW on the PSP.

for DS you just need to "buy" something that is easily available on the net. That's it. once you have that thing you don't need to do anything else.

for PSP if you don't have a friend with an already modded PSP good luck to you, it took me a week of study before i could figure it out how to do it. and i had to buy a pandora battery, so it's not as free as you may think. Finding the right files and guides to format your mem stick is no easy thing, and after that you need to upgrade the firmware to the latest version.

Now to clarify things i said easier. The cost is really not that relevant, considering that who plans to get free games is planning to spend less money in the long term.

Quote:
And really, its not the amount of pirating that goes on with the system that matters, but the percentage of those console owners who actually pirates their games for the system.
You need to explain to me by what logic you think that different systems may have a consistently different percentage of users eager to get ripped games (given the same opportunities). Unless proven otherwise i think we should assume that the people prone to get ripped games are equally distributed between the various console systems.
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Old 2009-04-22, 10:19   Link #71
meh
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
And really, its not the amount of pirating that goes on with the system that matters, but the percentage of those console owners who actually pirates their games for the system. Popular systems with popular games will always get pirated more than the unpopular ones, after all.

For example, say system A has a 10 mil worldwide user base, and around 2 mil pirates their games. Now system B has a 2 mil worlwide user base, but 1.5 mil pirates their games. Who do you think is better off?
Doesn't this just reinforce the idea that it's not pirating that's hurting PSP, but rather the fact that PSP isn't selling that's the problem? You'd think that if a system screams "buy me and all games come free", then it would actually not suck in the sales department.

Here's an example. In mainland China(excluding Taiwan/HK), PSP outsells NDS. Usually the seller immediately hack the system with CFW for the buyer upon transaction. And pretty much no one actually buys games. Now this makes sense. After all, pirating should help generate console sales. Who doesn't like free games? Especially in a culture that has no moral dilemma with regards to piracy.

Of course, in the defense of Chinese gamers, this is due to lack of affordability(a $40 PSP game is the equivalent of 1-2 weeks of salary for regular adults).

That's why I'm very leery of the idea that PSP piracy kills the US market. Because the console sales are just way too abysmal for me to believe that. I'm mostly just annoyed at how badly Sony marketed and supported the console. Allowing DS to dominate the market. Because I truly love the system itself, which I feel is just amazing. Now if only there were more games for it...
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Old 2009-04-22, 11:12   Link #72
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Originally Posted by meh View Post
That's why I'm very leery of the idea that PSP piracy kills the US market. Because the console sales are just way too abysmal for me to believe that. I'm mostly just annoyed at how badly Sony marketed and supported the console. Allowing DS to dominate the market. Because I truly love the system itself, which I feel is just amazing. Now if only there were more games for it...
The problem with the PSP isn't the installed base (~50 million units sold worldwide; with that large userbase, sales of key releases would normally be brisk) but rather the disproportionately low sales rate of software. In Japan, it's actually doing decently in software, so support has gotten better. However, elsewhere, third-party publishers/developers are avoiding the system because they perceive piracy to be too rampant (especially when PSP games are expensive to develop).
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Old 2009-04-22, 11:17   Link #73
MakubeX2
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Developement cost for DS software is cheap and yean high returns. You just need to see the amount of Shovelware on the DS like the Imagine series. So i doubt anybody will complain since the profit margin is high.

Now software development cost for the PSP can run up till as high as one for a console if some decent amount of profit is expected. And I doubt the majority of the masses will want to foot out a console-priced handheld software if it's nothing exceptional, so the developer need to work on a thin profit margin. Factored in the usual shit like lack of hype, piracy, negative review, etc....You can basically see why 3rd party developers actually hesitated on the PSP for the DS.

The only thing that the PSP is in need for the US market is a monster hit like Monster Hunter for Japanese Market or DJ MAX for Korean Market.
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Old 2009-04-22, 19:17   Link #74
meh
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Originally Posted by rg4619 View Post
The problem with the PSP isn't the installed base (~50 million units sold worldwide; with that large userbase, sales of key releases would normally be brisk) but rather the disproportionately low sales rate of software. In Japan, it's actually doing decently in software, so support has gotten better. However, elsewhere, third-party publishers/developers are avoiding the system because they perceive piracy to be too rampant (especially when PSP games are expensive to develop).
Okay. I thought we're discussing the US/Japan market. Since that's where most of the softwares are sold. But if you're using "worldwide" numbers, you might want to re-read my previous post. As I said, PSP consoles have a very big market in China. But there are no games. All Chinese PSP games are fan-translated. We're looking at a huge amount of units sold and ZERO software support.
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Old 2009-04-22, 19:54   Link #75
MakubeX2
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Originally Posted by meh View Post
Okay. I thought we're discussing the US/Japan market. Since that's where most of the softwares are sold. But if you're using "worldwide" numbers, you might want to re-read my previous post. As I said, PSP consoles have a very big market in China. But there are no games. All Chinese PSP games are fan-translated. We're looking at a huge amount of units sold and ZERO software support.
Due to English being a relatively universal language, I believe that when developers release their games in English, their intended market isn't just the America or Europe, but the entire World. They even have English Software that's is in English but Region Coded "3" which meant that is for release in Asia.

Then there's the fact that surplus amount of software from the American and Europe Market tends to be exported to other regions by independent exporters, especially South East Asian Region where the potential market is larger than Europe or America. (Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philipines etc)

Now I believe that the Sales Departement are very aware of the few things I've mentioned and thus they are looking at the bigger picture of English literate Market instead of just America or Europe. Of course, we all know where the major problem of those market lies.
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Old 2009-04-22, 22:41   Link #76
meh
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Due to English being a relatively universal language, I believe that when developers release their games in English, their intended market isn't just the America or Europe, but the entire World.
This is so absurd I don't know how to respond. Even most Europeans don't speak English outside of England. Much less "the entire world".
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Old 2009-04-22, 22:54   Link #77
DragoonKain3
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I don't think you understand the trouble needed to instal a CW on the PSP.
Trouble? Installers and downgraders are available with step by step procedures. Esepecially if you compare CFW of two years back to now, its SSSSOOOOO much easier. The effeciency of it actually scares me.

Quote:
and i had to buy a pandora battery, so it's not as free as you may think
Did you know that you can make your own pandora battery even without a v1.5 firmware or CFW, all done with the tools in your own home? I never thoguht it was possible either, until a friend of mine said he didn't buy his battery and I knew he already upgraded his to the latest firmware. XD

Quote:
Now to clarify things i said easier. The cost is really not that relevant, considering that who plans to get free games is planning to spend less money in the long term.
But your typical pirater is the average high school/college student (at least in NA). They already spent a lot of money on the system... every dollar counts to them. And if they can do something on their free time rather than spend even more money, they'd do so.

Really, you're underestimating the value of cost to the pirater, since its these people whose line of thinking is NOT lowering costs over the long run, but whose line of thinking is more towards getting things as free as possible at every opportunity.

As such, I really don't agree with the notion that the DS has a higher piracy rate than the PSP. At least it isn't the case in my area, and I pretty much listed the reasons why. And judging by how it looks like in China, I don't think my area is an isolated case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
Doesn't this just reinforce the idea that it's not pirating that's hurting PSP, but rather the fact that PSP isn't selling that's the problem?
Oh yeah, I'm on the same boat my friend. I pretty much said before its not really piracy thats killing PSP, but the fact that the DS is kicking its ass for the umpteenth time thats the biggest factor.

But try convincing a developer that high piracy rate on a console is a 'good thing'. And the more developers that gets scared of making games for a particular console, the sooner the death of that console. A consoles overall health is not just the console sales alone, but also its software sales. After all, a console can't be considered to still be alive if there's nothing at all to pirate lol.
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Old 2009-04-22, 23:21   Link #78
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No, you see the DS is actually suffering harder than the PSP in terms of the number of pirates. Its just that the DS has the special Non-gamer/ ignorant audience who buys shovelware and compensate for those that do download games illegally.
The PSP only appeals to the hardcore market and people in this group are unlikely to fall into the "ignorant" group and buy shovelware.

This is why developers complain about the PSP and prefer the DS, because they can't produce Petz: groom your own penis! series and reach platinum sales.
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Old 2009-04-22, 23:48   Link #79
Jan-Poo
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Trouble? Installers and downgraders are available with step by step procedures. Esepecially if you compare CFW of two years back to now, its SSSSOOOOO much easier. The effeciency of it actually scares me.
It is easier now but the informations are not so easily accessible, i had problem myself and i know many others had similar experiences, i personally helped a guy on a forum who was totally helpless. So before getting to the useful guide there's a chance you'll stumble upon at least a dozen of old ones.

Quote:
Did you know that you can make your own pandora battery even without a v1.5 firmware or CFW, all done with the tools in your own home? I never thoguht it was possible either, until a friend of mine said he didn't buy his battery and I knew he already upgraded his to the latest firmware. XD
Yeah sure you just need to break your battery cover and then modify an intenal chip. very easy... not to mention i read that a few people caused the battery to explode.

Quote:
But your typical pirater is the average high school/college student (at least in NA). They already spent a lot of money on the system... every dollar counts to them. And if they can do something on their free time rather than spend even more money, they'd do so.

Really, you're underestimating the value of cost to the pirater, since its these people whose line of thinking is NOT lowering costs over the long run, but whose line of thinking is more towards getting things as free as possible at every opportunity.

As such, I really don't agree with the notion that the DS has a higher piracy rate than the PSP. At least it isn't the case in my area, and I pretty much listed the reasons why. And judging by how it looks like in China, I don't think my area is an isolated case.
I never said it's higher in percentage but i do think is higher in actual number simply because in the world there are like 2 DS for any PSP . You should also consider the fact that there are already working emulator for DS and there are ton of sites with full romsets. as for the cost the most popular card is around 70 bucks which is roughly the equivalent of two games. I don't really think this is a huge deterrent.... seriously i would like to know the guy who'd rather buy original games for the sole reason he doesn't have enough money to buy the storage card.
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Old 2009-04-23, 01:55   Link #80
Shinji103
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Wow, gone a few days and, lol.............I find the current topic quite interesting though.

Well after (a lot of) thought, I decided to buy a brand-spanking new 3k PSP model back on Monday. (I've been busy having fun with the features and Crisis Core til today ) I did find a few PSP 2ks......none in a condition for which I would pay 150 for, though when I could have a fresh one for 20 more. (screen scatches, some damage, and general "ew"s) I also figured that they'd if I ever weanted to try homebrew, they'd eventually get the 3k hacked anyway, and lo and behold
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Originally Posted by jedinat View Post
The 3k model has been hacked. The first HEN (homebrew enabler) for it is (was?) supposed to be released today, and I am very impatient for it. If it doesn't come out today, it should be out very soon. It took a little working, but I got the already-released "hello world" exploit working consistently on my 3000.
Music and pics run fine and great on it without homebrew (and I can play music in the background while reading manga I copied to the memory stick), but the movie playback is indeed quite a bit limited. (although I expected as much) It won't take any of the avi or mp4s I have on my comp, but it shouldn't really be a problem when I feel like actually taking the time to look up how to get PSP-viewable avi's. When I'm done with Crisis Core. (love that game )
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