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Old 2010-02-02, 14:37   Link #581
DC20
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Gallia was Clearly Finland in 1935, with their fight against the Empire most closely resembling the winter war against the USSR.

While Gallia is geographically a representation of the eastern European states of Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia, they seem to be very western European; at least culturally. Even so, I wouldn't put their modern counterpart in Europe. If I had to choose a state that would best serve as an analogue to Gallia in a modern period I would look to Israel. Obviously there are some very big differences between the two when comparing the social cleavages, but they both have policies of heavy conscription (of both sexes) as a means of maintaining a defense force, as they are both surrounded by powers that aren't always too pleased with their sovereignty. In order to do this, they DO use modern weaponry to ensure that they can defend themselves against larger numbers. I'm no weapons expert - I'll admit that straight out - but they do use the M-16 and M-4 rifles, as do the United States militaries (from which they get a lot of their equipment). True, that's not the SCAR or Javelin as seen in Kira's pictures, but I'll get to that in a few moments...

You also have to remember, as you said, that Gallia is sitting on an ass-tonne of Ragnite. Ragnite does literally just about everything in the VC world - it's like oil on steroids, and Gallia owns the gold mine. I highly doubt that they are wanting financially. It's very likely that they can easily pay, trade, or economically muscle their way into a wide assortment of weaponry - probably not with the Federation or the Alliance, as they are 1) if not openly hostile tacitly so, and 2) large federations of states that will have their own stable and likely thriving economies (though it seems the Alliance STILL has a need for Ragnite. While it's unlikely they would be willing to "trade arms for oil" they would very likely trade for or buy it if Gallia was willing to open such negotiations once hostilities ceased). However, other states would very likely be up for such negotiations - specifically those across the pond, ifunowati'msayin. In that way Gallia could very much become the United State's analogue to Nigeria/Saudi Arabia.

Going back to what you said about the current generation assault weapons and arms, you mentioned that - even if Gallia DID have a limited number of such weapons - it would be unlikely that they would fall into the militia's hands. However, Kira's pictures are of the members of Squad 7, and you have to remember that in the game Squad 7 DID receive the top of the line equipment Gallia had to offer. In fact, Cordelia herself outfitted them with the weapons. As Squad 7 was 1) not only outfitted by royalty with weapons that were often reserved for only Gallia's elitist units (the Royal Guard), they 2) also (seemingly single handedly) saved Gallia from complete and utter defeat at the hands of Maximilian, there are three ways you could look at the "Modern Warfare" images of Squad 7.

The first would be to assume that, as Kira is using the same characters, the battles from 1935 have just been moved into a modern period. This means that all of the events and significances of Squad 7 have just shifted through time and they are getting their equipment from Cordelia, just as they got their top of the line equipment from Cordelia in the 1935 setting.

The second way would be to imagine that the 1935 battles did occur in the past, and that Squad 7 kept its historical reputation through history all the way up to the modern period. Even though they are only a Militia unit, it wouldn't be a stretch to see them as the Militia's equivalent to special forces, (the Army has the Rangers/Green Berets/CAG, the Marines have Force Recon/MARSOC, The Navy has the SEALs... why can't the Gallian Militia and Army have their own equivalents to the Royal Guard?) still being equipped with the best Gallia had to offer even to this day. While the Militia seems to see heavy conscription in times of war, it also seems to have its volunteers, and at least a small force stays operational during times of peace (Varrot stayed in the Militia after EWI, Homer and Salinas after EWII... there might be others, but I can't remember). Squad 7 could be converted to an all volunteer Militia special forces unit. Just one possibility, but I don't see it as a huge stretch.

The third would be to say, "Hey, those guns are badass as shit. Who gives a damn how they got their hands on them? I want to see Squad 7 packing some serious heat, and these pictures deliver."

Last edited by DC20; 2010-02-02 at 15:12. Reason: spelling/grammar
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Old 2010-02-02, 16:08   Link #582
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I'm quite willing to go with your third reason, DC. Rule of Cool is always better (though, since we haven't seen the world past Europa, perhaps the United States is there - as in, it's actually THERE, sending aid to Gallia post-war, and turning the little state into a European mix of Israel and Iraq.)
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Old 2010-02-02, 18:50   Link #583
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Wow! I didn't know my drawings would create such controversy as I was first looking for what's looking good to me according to each character. Of course, I also try to bring something close to uniformity in "supplying" the characters. So, I'll try to answer my best to everything posted since yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Gallia is like Finland with a system of universal conscription. But which nation do you akin Gallia to by today's standards? It's not a super power with it's only real income coming from ragnite mining.

I just can't see a nation that can call forth massive reserves of men and women being able to give every soldier - let alone a militia member - current generation assault weapons. Even if they did possess those sorts of weapons they'd most likely be given to special forces or limited use in the larger concentrations of troops.
I was also feeling Gallia had his share of resemblances with Finland by their military system, their geographical position and their display of resistance against a juggernaut from the East (analogy with the Winter War). However, I'd also buy DC20's theory about how ragnite may be used as a way to trade for military material at the same time Gallia itself is sitting in a strategic position with the sea to the West and the Empire to the East. Since we don't know much about other countries out of Europa, it's not impossible they would look for other countries to make the ragnite-for-weaponry trade with.

About the 7s earning top quality weaponry, it was sure unconscious to me for a while, but it surely joins the idea that Cordelia rewarded the squad for their accomplishments and then gave them the keys to the armory with the most recent material Gallia has. About primary firearms (except for sniper rifles and Welkin's UMP .45), I also try to keep consistent one particular item before picking any rifle design: STANAG magazines. With these, it gives me the basis to look at a huge array of possibilities.

In short, I'd say I'm going with reasons 1 and 3 for the record. Anyway, I won't fuss too much further on. Besides, since Javelins also exist in Norwegian and Lithuanian forces, let's say Largo just fell upon a stockpile of those.

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2010-02-02 at 19:04.
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Old 2010-02-02, 21:48   Link #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC20 View Post
The third would be to say, "Hey, those guns are badass as shit. Who gives a damn how they got their hands on them? I want to see Squad 7 packing some serious heat, and these pictures deliver."
Hey I think GK G3s and SiG 540s are "badass as shit." ;D

The only thing I'm concerned about if you/we did try to make this VC in the modern day viable, how would you explain ragnite and the Valkyrur? Is it an ever present resource along with oil or is it a rarity with stockpiles only just being discovered or announced publicly.

I always had the idea that ragnite would be a very limited resource with what little had been found in the past been used for experiments for weaponry and research into subjects who displayed an affinity to it's presence.

With oil still the dominant resource in the world and the discovery of vast droves of ragnite in Gallia leading to an Imperial invasion for the precious mineral.

Just throwing it out there.
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Old 2010-02-02, 22:35   Link #585
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Heh, and I'd agree with you about the G3 and the 550

I always kind of figured that Ragnite was the VC world's substitute for oil (essentially serving as a stand in), meaning that it completely replaced oil as a resource and oil either doesn't exist or doesn't have any applicable uses.

Here's the entry on Ragnite from the encyclopedia...

Ragnite

As Europa's primary energy source, this ore has become vital to daily
existence. It luminesces a characteristic blue hue when releasing the energy it
contains.

Mined primarily in mountainous regions, the raw ore is then refined for use in
any number of applications. Though the ore's existence was known in ancient
times, it was not until the Valkyrur brought their refinery technology to
Europa that its use began. Since the Industrial Revolution, it has become a
vital ingredient to human civilization.

A surging need for tank fuel and weaponry derived from the ore has recently
driven Europa's nations to expand their borders in a growing war for resources.




And here's the one on its uses...

Uses of Ragnite

Depending on the refinery methods used, ragnite ore can produce various forms
of energy suited to a spectrum of needs.

Refined into liquid ragnoline, it can fuel lamps or power vehicles, granting it
a broad range of civilian uses. Its military applications include tank fuel, an
incendiary agent in flamethrowers, the explosive payload in hand grenades, and
countless others. Medical scientists recently learned that the ore also acts as
a painkiller, developing a controlled disinfectant and restorative agent known
as Ragnaid.

New properties and applications for the ore continue to be discovered daily,
and few doubt that this resource will only continue to grow in use and value.



Essentially it does everything Oil does and more. MUCH more. It doesn't seem to be particularly rare (at least, no rarer than oil in our world), but it has so many necessary uses that any nation would be scrambling for as much as they could get their hands on. As Gallia has a whole friggin' lot of it...

In the end, I'd guess that oil just doesn't exist for them. Ragnite IS their oil.

As for the Valkyria... I REALLY hated them. To be honest I thought the whole idea of them was stupid, and if I could get rid of one thing in the game it would be that aspect of it. Not my choice though.

Best case scenario, there are no more Valkyria. No need to even mention them. Otherwise, just treat them as they were treated in the original game.
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Old 2010-02-02, 23:04   Link #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Hey I think GK G3s and SiG 540s are "badass as shit." ;D

The only thing I'm concerned about if you/we did try to make this VC in the modern day viable, how would you explain ragnite and the Valkyrur? Is it an ever present resource along with oil or is it a rarity with stockpiles only just being discovered or announced publicly.

I always had the idea that ragnite would be a very limited resource with what little had been found in the past been used for experiments for weaponry and research into subjects who displayed an affinity to it's presence.

With oil still the dominant resource in the world and the discovery of vast droves of ragnite in Gallia leading to an Imperial invasion for the precious mineral.

Just throwing it out there.
As I mentioned before, there are a lot similarities between Ragnite and Petroleum. They're both used heavily in both civilian and military life and a lot anti-war groups blame Petroleum as a cause of conflict.

Oil was also an important factor in WWII. The US's Oil Embargo may have pissed the Japanese off to declare war and mount a preemptive strike on Hawaii

Also the Max's Group never invaded Gallia just for the Ragnite. His goal was to use Gallia as a base for his new country and obtain the Valkyrun bloodline and ancient WMD called the Valkof so he could conquer the rest of the world. The Ragnite was just an excuse so the Empire would agree give him an large invasion force without suspicion for his real agenda. Also Gallia used to be part the Empire before it declared and fought for its independence much like the US and British Empire (called the Commonwealth in WWII).

As for the Valkyrur, the could be genetically engineered Super Soldiers. There are modern military games with the theme of "Super Soldiers." The Fear Series has you playing as a Psychic Super Soldiers fighting a creepy little girl that could obliterate you with her mind alone. Metal Gear has you playing as the clone the best soldier of the 20th century.
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Old 2010-02-03, 22:57   Link #587
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BTW, I have a little tough time deciding what existing camo pattern would fit best to the 7s according to the campaigns they got in. I have a slight preference on existing digital camo patterns, but I would like to read people's opinions about the best pattern based on where the squad fought in battle.
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Old 2010-02-03, 23:43   Link #588
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I personally hate that digital camo. I'd look at Darcsen patterns colored green and brown (or tan and brown/white and gray, according to location and season.)
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Old 2010-02-03, 23:44   Link #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
I personally hate that digital camo. I'd look at Darcsen patterns colored green and brown (or tan and brown/white and gray, according to location and season.)
Since I have a memory blank, what does that Darcsen pattern look like?

Edit: If we talk about what is seen on the 1935 uniform, I'd have a tough time understanding how it would fit in today's standards.
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Old 2010-02-04, 00:13   Link #590
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Simple - a chage of color to a scheme matching the surroundings - if the uniform was green, brown, and black, it could be camo on par with Vietnam-Gulf war patterns.
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Old 2010-02-04, 02:52   Link #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Simple - a chage of color to a scheme matching the surroundings - if the uniform was green, brown, and black, it could be camo on par with Vietnam-Gulf war patterns.
I'm still not exactly sure what that means in reference to Darcsens. Can you clarify? I don't recall there being a Darcsen camo, unless I'm just having the same memory blank.


Also, despite Red's aversion to the digital camo, I'll second the MARPAT/CADPAT type camo. Colors of your own choice, of course.
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Old 2010-02-04, 04:25   Link #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC20 View Post
I'm still not exactly sure what that means in reference to Darcsens. Can you clarify? I don't recall there being a Darcsen camo, unless I'm just having the same memory blank.


Also, despite Red's aversion to the digital camo, I'll second the MARPAT/CADPAT type camo. Colors of your own choice, of course.
I think he means the tradional Darcsen colours Zaka painted on the Shamrock with; a mix of interlocking squares and stripes of differing shades of blue and white. I'm experimenting with it myself and think it looks pretty good on a smaller scale.
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Old 2010-02-04, 07:07   Link #593
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Thank you, Freefall, for translating. (You'r now my favorite branch of the Luftwaffe.)

The pattern on Zaka's tank is exactly what I was thinking of.
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Old 2010-02-04, 12:26   Link #594
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I looked at the pattern... even on a smaller scale, my own feeling would be this one would still look very good on vehicles (tanks, airplanes and boats, even when you change colors). But to see that on foot-mobiles... that's another story.
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Old 2010-02-04, 18:36   Link #595
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Well, Kira, since I'm so damned determined not to let you use Digital Camo without exploring other options, I suggest a 'splinter' pattern, such as used by the German Fallschirmsjaeger, and varioius other nations post-WWII.

Or, solid colors - though, that would sort of moot a couple points. You're going for 'modern' not 'Korea-era'.

I also wish to direct you to kamouflage.net's German Federal and Democratic Republic collections of clothing - while the arms you depict Squad 7 holding are primarily American in make, that doesn't mean that the pattern has to be American - that, and I hate UCP.
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Last edited by RedShocktrooper; 2010-02-04 at 21:09. Reason: Further Suggestions
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Old 2010-02-04, 21:36   Link #596
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This is (me in) Type B Splinter Camo. ;D

Spoiler for size:
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Old 2010-02-04, 23:20   Link #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
This is (me in) Type B Splinter Camo. ;D

Spoiler for size:
ahh so it was splinter...xD
Spoiler for opo368 being dumb:
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Old 2010-02-04, 23:24   Link #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShocktrooper View Post
Well, Kira, since I'm so damned determined not to let you use Digital Camo without exploring other options, I suggest a 'splinter' pattern, such as used by the German Fallschirmsjaeger, and varioius other nations post-WWII.

Or, solid colors - though, that would sort of moot a couple points. You're going for 'modern' not 'Korea-era'.

I also wish to direct you to kamouflage.net's German Federal and Democratic Republic collections of clothing - while the arms you depict Squad 7 holding are primarily American in make, that doesn't mean that the pattern has to be American - that, and I hate UCP.
Pretty good site to look forward.

I was also looking at the JGSDF's uniforms and they have very appealing patterns as well. Of course, DC20 brought up the CADPAT (first ever digital camo pattern, CANADA FTW!) which is a strong candidate too. Marines' MARPAT is also a very good contender as it's getting sold to more countries by the day. European design also has good samples of their own too. In short, I'm sold to nothing yet although digital camo has a slight headstart. I'm looking for the best available pattern(s) (and most effective) considering Gallia has different types of environment. But I can tell you that UCP has been thrown out of contention early after I asked the question.

About the splinter camo, I saw how they do that in the Swedish and Swiss armies... thanks, but no thanks. Not quite my taste, I should say. Welcome to the 21st century, gents!

BTW, what's your word, Soggy?

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2010-02-04 at 23:39.
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Old 2010-02-05, 07:14   Link #599
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I wouldn't exactly worry about what type of Camouflage they're wearing unless you really plan on coloring the picture in the future. Just let the viewers use their own imagination for what type of camo they're wearing.
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Old 2010-02-05, 08:31   Link #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
About the splinter camo, I saw how they do that in the Swedish and Swiss armies... thanks, but no thanks. Not quite my taste, I should say. Welcome to the 21st century, gents!
We don't use splinter camouflage in Switzerland, except on old shelter halves used as ground sheets. TAZ 90 is closer to woodland actually.


Besides that you don't really need to use an existing camouflage pattern, you can also use different ones depending on the terrain. I doubt camouflage designed to be used in Naggiar or the Barious desert would be effective in Kloden or the grasslands surrounding Bruhl.
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