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Old 2010-10-27, 12:51   Link #121
RedShocktrooper
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Epic Bump!

I've been thinking about the Imperial Medium Tank and its real-life counterpart, the T-28. Using the T-28 as a basis, I've come up with some variants. I'm also calling the tank itself T-28 - proper name "Vulpine", because by VC1, it seems plausible that a tank of that designation could be in service, and still be modern.
  • T-28A (T-28/76A): The "common" model, with the short 76.2mm gun.
  • T-28B (T-28/57): A modified gun mount, with a high-velocity 57mm gun.
  • T-28C (T-28/76B): The base tank, only with the Heavy Tank's turret and enlongated 76.2mm gun
  • T-28D (T-28/85): The C-model, with the gun swapped out for that of the Tank Destroyer.
  • Plus varients in the Self-propelled Artillery (SU-28) and SPATGs (Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Guns).
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Old 2010-10-30, 14:15   Link #122
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No doubt about it. They sound good when put like that, though I canít help but wonder the details. The gun being only one of the attributes a tank needs. Letís take the C or D models for instance. If one takes the turret off the Medium class and switches it out for a bigger one because it is necessary to mount a bigger gun, or at least one with greater recoil because of the size of cartridge then that adds weight, reducing mobility and putting more strain on the suspension and transmission. It may also necessitate the deletion of the aft turret if the main turret is large enough that it interferes, and increase your silhouette.

The opposite could happen with SPGs with a lot of weight cut down, speeding production or allowing for the same weight with different armour thickness and weapon. However the disadvantage is the vehicle has to be turned to fire which can be disastrous. There are pluses and minuses to every modification ranging from mobility, firepower and crew survivability, to commonality of parts, serviceability and reliability.

Yet, this is all of course without taking the possible Female (that HMG/Light Auto cannon turret from the book) and flamethrower versions and non-combat support/engineering, command variants and prototypes out of that over 12000 units produced.
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Old 2010-10-30, 16:45   Link #123
RedShocktrooper
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The use of the larger Heavy Tank turret was inspired by the real-life use of the T-35's Conical turret on the T-28. Small numbers were used, but I've got no reason to believe that it too radically changed the tank's suspension - in fact, I figure it was just a means to be able to mount heavy guns, and use up leftover turrets. Since I doubt the Heavy would see much use in an offensive role, it's possible the designers built more turrets than tanks, figuring that orders that don't come in would come. End result, the leftover turrets are mounted on modified Medium tanks, offering them a broader variety of weapons.

I was simply stating the gun modifications - undoubtedly, other changes would need to occur (perhaps that aft turret would be replaced with rear-facing gun on the back of the turret? Those were fairly common in Real Life during the era, up to the 1940s with the KV-1.) Since I do figure that the Empire would probably play with gun mounts armaments, they would probably modify the suspension and hull of the tank in question.

I suppose one could insinuate the same for the Gallians (in fact, if I remember the game correctly, one can see in the background a Gallian assault gun's blueprints), and assuming that's a production vehicle, that nicely implies the Shamrock isn't the only modified Gallian tank.
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:54   Link #124
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Hi I read through most of the thread.. however my 1st impressions when I 1st played VC on Ps3 was

*Welkin and Isara get their Dads Tank*

"HOLY DUCK FVCK , We get a King Tiger! Fck Yeah! time for some Panzerlied bxtches"

everything else seemed fictional to me
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Old 2010-11-02, 21:12   Link #125
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Well, that might be due to "Look harder, and you'll find it." The Edelweiss being the King Tiger is the most glaringly obvious, while the Imperial Medium Tank and the Soviet T-28 are more subtle.
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Old 2010-11-03, 00:26   Link #126
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Another externally similar design (albeit a class lower in comparison) is the British A6 Medium Mk III of the Interbellum although it never reached production status. The A9 Cruiser also has three turrets, although she is an entirely different vehicle, but the double tonnage two-turret Light Tank of the Empire is vaguely similar in role to it.

I fence sit on the Edelweiss. Others have argued that one to various degrees and no doubt there are similarities shared, but I think it depends on which tank is portrayed. The Edelweiss seen for half the game and cutscenes is an entirely different flower compared to the cousin of late game.

The question then is concerning the turret modification, could the turret ring handle the gun? Take the T-35 and T-28 turret switch for instance, the actual guns were not changed as far as I'm aware, nor am I aware as to the weight and balance difference of the two turrets. The heavy tank turret is undoubtedly heavier than the standard Medium. How much difference it makes, who really knows? That change made on top of others and then there would be something up.

I take it you are referring to this vehicle? (If it doesn't work then try here)



When compared alongside the Shamrock this vehicle could reasonably be considered an 'authorized' variant compared to the vehicle commanded by Zaka which is essentially a field mod even if it was done in the work shop. Either way this may explain why the main armament is classified as PaK instead of KwK. They may have simply forgot to change it.
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Old 2010-11-04, 13:30   Link #127
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Yeah, that Tank Destroyer is exactly what I was talking about. Why didn't that make it into the final version, since TDs are perfect defensive machines?
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Old 2010-11-11, 03:41   Link #128
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Did anyone ever find out where did the Flamethrower Attachment originate from? Cause every time that I did a search for "flamethrower attachment" I keep getting results for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Valkyria Chronicles came out 2 years before.
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Old 2010-11-11, 03:57   Link #129
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It originated from some guy behind a desk who thought it would be cool to have in a video game. As far as I'm aware they don't actually make flame attachments for real weapons. Flamethrowers were unilaterally banned by at least the US, and I'd be willing to bet a number of other states as well. For one they're a PR nightmare - they're very controversial weapons as the guy on the receiving end isn't having a good day even as far as getting killed is concerned. For two their use is questionable. They've largely been replaced by thermobaric weapons. They just aren't as useful as they used to be. They were far too large to mount on a rifle before they were phased out, and honestly I don't see mounting a flamethrower on a rifle being a good idea even if you could. They're going to be heavy and bulky - two things you do NOT want on a weapon that you're going to be carrying around all day, and when you need to really move with a weapon you'd better be able to get it pointed where you want to point it right when you want it pointed. As I see it it'd just be far too cumbersome.
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Old 2010-11-11, 11:15   Link #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC20 View Post
It originated from some guy behind a desk who thought it would be cool to have in a video game...
Yep, Treyarch taking a bit of dramatic license. Since shotguns almost certainly exist in the VC universe, a Dragon's Breath analogue would have been a more sensible alternative. Which reminds me that VC2's armored techs would be better served with a shotgun instead of the mallet (which, Red noted, would make them very similar to RA3's Peacekeepers).

Speaking of Black Ops, I wonder how well the 'MOPP-IV' gameplay tweak seen in a portion of a late mission therein would carry over to VC...

Spoiler for Explanation:
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Old 2010-11-11, 13:38   Link #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly00 View Post
Yep, Treyarch taking a bit of dramatic license. Since shotguns almost certainly exist in the VC universe, a Dragon's Breath analogue would have been a more sensible alternative. Which reminds me that VC2's armored techs would be better served with a shotgun instead of the mallet (which, Red noted, would make them very similar to RA3's Peacekeepers).
You wrote about shotguns and Black Ops: I also believe shotguns could have been a better alternative for armored techs if their purpose is to safely take on more than one soldier in the area.

Spoiler for off-topic:
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Old 2010-11-11, 18:56   Link #132
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Dragon's Breath rounds? In a way I almost feel the same way about those as I do about the underslung flamethrowers (except, of course, that they actually exist). I don't have any experience with them personally, but from what I've heard of them they're novelty rounds. Odds are you're just going to start a fire, and if you really need a job done at close range a shot of 00 is going to do you a lot better than a glamorized firework. I'm sure VC could come up with some sort of explanation for it though (uh... ragnite flames are more reliable and have tactical uses!).

As far as I'm concerned CoD died with 2. That said, that MOPP suit idea is actually really cool. Any casualties in a chemical environment are assumed to be contaminated, and in some instances there is no operating procedure for evacuating casualties in such - they're just assumed dead. Scary as Hell to think that the only thing keeping those people alive is that suit, and that even just tearing the thing on the ground could be fatal.
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Old 2010-11-11, 23:34   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC20 View Post
Dragon's Breath rounds? In a way I almost feel the same way about those as I do about the underslung flamethrowers (except, of course, that they actually exist). I don't have any experience with them personally, but from what I've heard of them they're novelty rounds.
From what I've seen in this playthrough, Treyarch might have taken some liberties with these too, making them more like minature impact-fused incendiary grenades.

Quote:
That said, that MOPP suit idea is actually really cool. Any casualties in a chemical environment are assumed to be contaminated, and in some instances there is no operating procedure for evacuating casualties in such - they're just assumed dead. Scary as Hell to think that the only thing keeping those people alive is that suit, and that even just tearing the thing on the ground could be fatal.
Yeah, it was quite a surprise when I saw it on one of the playthroughs that've cropped up (I wonder how much cursing and controller-tossing rage it's generated so far)...and I do believe it's so far unique in the genre.

Related: Blood Stone gets kudos for something close to it, in reverse...

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Old 2010-11-13, 02:17   Link #134
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Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training:

Spoiler for Valkyria Chronicle Classes in Black Ops:
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Old 2010-11-13, 09:07   Link #135
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Did anyone ever find out where did the Flamethrower Attachment originate from? Cause every time that I did a search for "flamethrower attachment" I keep getting results for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Valkyria Chronicles came out 2 years before.
Do a search about the "Flaming Bayonet" prototypes of WW1.
Sometimes fiction isn't that far from reality.
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Old 2010-11-13, 11:28   Link #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neovoid View Post
Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training...
Interesting. On a couple of occasions, I've remarked that the VC universe could easily support a Battlefield-esque TPS; most of the building blocks are already there...

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Do a search about the "Flaming Bayonet" prototypes of WW1.
Sometimes fiction isn't that far from reality.
Wow, this came as a surprise. Here's picture of one of these devices...

Spoiler for Large Image:
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Old 2010-11-13, 18:06   Link #137
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Now there's something I have to get for my P17!
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Old 2010-11-14, 18:33   Link #138
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Just out curiosity, has anyone tried to make Valkyria Chronicles inspired classes in CoD: BOps? Here are some few examples I've been fiddling around with in offline Combat Training:

Spoiler for Valkyria Chronicle Classes in Black Ops:
Nice one indeed, mate! That's what I would have had as well.

Now I'm stuck in quite in a dilemma too in one of my future artwork projects. I wonder if Alicia would be better off with a Barrett REC7 (or M468 for Splinter Cell fans) or with a M14 dusted off from the past and slightly modified for the 21st Century.
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Old 2010-11-15, 01:37   Link #139
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I'm still standing by the humble HK G3 as the standard infantry weapon of a modern day Gallian Militia.
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Old 2010-11-15, 01:50   Link #140
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I'd go with the M14, I get the feeling that modern day scouts tend to prefer 7.62mm over the 5.56mm which is more suited for a shocktrooper. COD: Black Ops version gave us the semi-automatic M14 with a wooden pistol grip and even let us attach a M203 grenade launcher. It's almost like giving the semi-automatic M1 Garand a 20 round magazine and an under barrel launcher that can fire 40mm grenades instead rifle grenades. Sadly, Warlord wouldn't allow us to add an ACOG Scope or IR Scope with the launcher.

Valkyria Chronicles 2 also gave us new advance tier classes and new abilities they have. For example, Scout Elites don't get the grenade launcher attachment, but they have the highest movement. In Black Ops, that translates M14 with ACOG Scope and Grip or Suppressor with Lightweight Pro, Warlord Pro, and Marathon Pro.

I also like the attention to detail Treyarch did with the 1 tier perks in relation what your character looks like.

Lightweight: Scout Class
Scavenger: Engineer Class (character model carries the most equipment)
Ghost: Sniper Class
Flak Jacket: Lancer Class (extra protection against explosion and shrapnel)
Hardline: Shocktrooper Class (they look like assault troops with helmets and ballistic vests?)
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