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Old 2010-11-15, 02:32   Link #141
DC20
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I don't have the CoD games, so I don't know what the other options are, but I'd go with something lighter and shorter than the M14 for scouts. It's too heavy when there are lighter options available. The G3 wouldn't be a bad choice, depending on how you interpret Gallian weapon technology and how well supplied/trained the Militia is in comparison to the Army. The M4 is in CoD, right? That'd probably be my choice, given the absence of the others.

I see shock troopers carrying SAWs. What are the BOps options in that category?
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Old 2010-11-15, 03:45   Link #142
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I don't have the CoD games, so I don't know what the other options are, but I'd go with something lighter and shorter than the M14 for scouts. It's too heavy when there are lighter options available. The G3 wouldn't be a bad choice, depending on how you interpret Gallian weapon technology and how well supplied/trained the Militia is in comparison to the Army. The M4 is in CoD, right? That'd probably be my choice, given the absence of the others.

I see shock troopers carrying SAWs. What are the BOps options in that category?
The M4 was already given to Alicia in my first artwork in her "normal" battle mode with full equipment. I'm rather looking at something a little more powerful (certainly bigger than 5.56) and good range for special operations. CoD protagonists are good in using lots of different weapons, so that's why I'm looking for something else with Alicia.

About the SAW, Jane already had a Mk. 46 version earlier too. In Black Ops, we have the RPD, the Stoner 63, the M60 and the HK21 as LMGs; but they can also use rapid fire short/mid-range assault rifles too as Neovoid pointed out.

So far, I've given my militiamen and militiawomen some of the best pieces of weaponry available in 2010 (M4 (USA), FN SCAR-L (Belgium), CheyTac M200 (USA), AK-74 (Russia), ACR (USA), H&K UMP (Germany), Javelin (USA)) with modern sights. However, I wouldn't mind going "back in time" with "older" rifles still used today. If I had more of Cpt. Varrot to get a grip of her character design, I'd certainly have given one of the Enfield bullpup rifle designs to Her Majesty's loyal servant.
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Old 2010-11-15, 03:57   Link #143
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The M60. And what about the FN FAL? As many as 70 different countries have adopted this battle rifle.
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Old 2010-11-15, 04:01   Link #144
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
So far, I've given my militiamen and militiawomen some of the best pieces of weaponry available in 2010 (M4 (USA), FN SCAR-L (Belgium), CheyTac M200 (USA), AK-74 (Russia), ACR (USA), H&K UMP (Germany), Javelin (USA)) with modern sights. However, I wouldn't mind going "back in time" with "older" rifles still used today. If I had more of Cpt. Varrot to get a grip of her character design, I'd certainly have given one of the Enfield bullpup rifle designs to Her Majesty's loyal servant.
What about the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare L96A1? AKA that one sniper rifle everyone hates from Counter-Strike. In her bio, Varrot was a sniper.
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Old 2010-11-15, 04:09   Link #145
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The M60. And what about the FN FAL? As many as 70 different countries have adopted this battle rifle.
The FN FAL? Not bad. I think it would fit well her Bruhl militia captain self.

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What about the Accuracy International Arctic Warfare L96A1? AKA that one sniper rifle everyone hates from Counter-Strike. In her bio, Varrot was a sniper.
Oh dear me! I wouldn't touch that weapon as I also hated it.

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2010-11-15 at 04:19.
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Old 2010-11-15, 04:20   Link #146
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If you want modern in 7.62 then I'd go HK417.

A little older but still in service (other than the FAL), the G3 is still a solid choice, as are the SG 542 and RK 62.
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Old 2010-11-15, 04:24   Link #147
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Oh dear me! I wouldn't touch that weapon as I also hated it.
I'm planning on buying an AWSM in the near future.
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Old 2010-11-15, 13:03   Link #148
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FN FAL isn't a bad choice as there are carbine sized variants comparable to the standard and there is also the C2 variant SAW in its line. The SIG 510 series might be another choice.

What about the Pre-64 Winchester Model 70? It was used in Vietnam, and besides if they're Militia and Town Watch members they could be irregulars using any number of weapons available on the civilian market as either base or modified with new synthetic stocks. Unfortunately I cannot find the CASR link to show what could be done with the base GSR, I think the closest might be to find a picture of an AIA M10 lee-enfield variant with a synthetic stock. Another oldy is the Swiss K31 and its sniper variant.

The Shocktroopers and Engineers would more than likely want light weapons so the Vz. 58 (totally different from an AK) and a lot of other light, short and handy rifles would be better for them than a long M-16A4 or C7A2.

--Edit

Forgot to add that the M-14 could be updated to EBR or comparable standard and that the AR-10 is another possibility.

Last edited by Beri270T3; 2010-11-15 at 13:28. Reason: Forgot to add
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Old 2010-11-16, 10:48   Link #149
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I'd like to point out that the reason 5.56mm is in greater use than 7.62mm is because 30 rounds of 5.56mm weigh a bit less than 20 rounds of 7.62mm and take up less space, which is am important consideration when you're carrying hundreds of rounds of ammo.

Regards Scouts, if we're equipping them with US gear I'd think they'd follow the Scout Sniper principle the Marines use: one man with a 7.62mm sniper rifle (either a bolt-action M40A3 or the EMR, Marine version of the M14 EBR), one man with an M16A4 and maybe an M82 for extra punch. So for a VC equivalent, you're looking at someone carrying an accurized rifle, 7.62mm caliber, lightly loaded to move fast over distances.

Shocktroopers would be your equivalent to the modern rifleman, who carries a selective fire assault rifle.

As for a modern Gallian militia... I'd think the FAL might be more possible as a choice. It beats out the G3 in terms of numbers produced - it's not called the right arm of the free world for nothing.

Also, rather than Dragon's Breath rounds, you might as well use explosive slugs for your shotgun, especially if it's an auto shotgun like the AA-12 or USAS-12.
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Old 2010-11-16, 19:24   Link #150
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I still see the Shocktroopers carrying some kind of SAW - I don't see the roles as seen in VC making a direct translation as to their roles in a modern unit.

I see the basic structure as broken into four men fireteams - Two scouts (standard riflemen - a fireteam leader and a grenadier), a shocktrooper (automatic rifleman - SAW), and an engineer (another rifleman, but he carries ammunition for the SAW and assists the gunner). Lancers would essentially be Scouts carrying man portable AT weapons, while engineers would also be folded into the scout role, but - unless in a specialized unit - would carry the extra ammunition for the Shocktrooper. I see the snipers as being broken into two different roles - either filling the more traditional sniper role or being attached to a unit as a squad sniper or designated marksman.

Last edited by DC20; 2010-11-16 at 19:55.
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Old 2010-11-24, 10:26   Link #151
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Finally we can play a real Valkyrian in upcoming Valkyria Chronicles 3. Now Valkyrian Spear and Shield is accessible for Riella Marcelis.


- From this demo, it seems Valkyrian is abusable immunity to bullets (1 turn victory is possible) although they nerfed the Tank by limiting its usage per turn aside from the huge CP costs (I used a Tank in VC2 which costs only 1 CP with an upgraded front that makes it as godly as Valkyrian) which explains why Sega allow us to use a real Valkyrian in the game. (I still hate the fact that Alliase's Valkyrian power is limited only to potential trigger)

- I hope there are lots of Fencers opponents in each skirmish to make it difficult, despite the limited SP(3 for the whole skirmish not by turn) to activate it.

Last edited by christinemarie; 2010-11-24 at 10:40.
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Old 2010-11-27, 16:47   Link #152
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I still see the Shocktroopers carrying some kind of SAW - I don't see the roles as seen in VC making a direct translation as to their roles in a modern unit.
Maybe Rosie carrying a M60 along with the ammo belt on her shoulders could be quite a sight. Jane is just too trigger happy for such a big toy.

In fact, you're right to some extent when you mention how it is virtually impossible to match VC's infantry roles with the roles in a modern unit. As Wild Goose stated, shocktroopers today would be mostly closer to modern infantrymen carrying an assault rifle (fit for short and mid-range action) although the original concept of superior firepower opens the door for some to carry SAWs.

Anyway, I always give my characters the kinds of weapons which would make them look good.
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Old 2010-11-27, 18:36   Link #153
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Originally Posted by christinemarie View Post
Finally we can play a real Valkyrian in upcoming Valkyria Chronicles 3. Now Valkyrian Spear and Shield is accessible for Riella Marcelis.

- From this demo, it seems Valkyrian is abusable immunity to bullets (1 turn victory is possible) although they nerfed the Tank by limiting its usage per turn aside from the huge CP costs (I used a Tank in VC2 which costs only 1 CP with an upgraded front that makes it as godly as Valkyrian) which explains why Sega allow us to use a real Valkyrian in the game. (I still hate the fact that Alliase's Valkyrian power is limited only to potential trigger)

- I hope there are lots of Fencers opponents in each skirmish to make it difficult, despite the limited SP(3 for the whole skirmish not by turn) to activate it.
Okay, now that's just abuse of friendly fire.
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Old 2010-11-27, 21:03   Link #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I'd like to point out that the reason 5.56mm is in greater use than 7.62mm is because 30 rounds of 5.56mm weigh a bit less than 20 rounds of 7.62mm and take up less space, which is am important consideration when you're carrying hundreds of rounds of ammo.
Just to amplify this point... a bit of Googling turned up this handy image...


...which shows you how much ammunition you can get for the G3A3, M16A2, and G11 for a total weight of 7.35kg. Some typos seem to have crept into the numbers for the prototype weapon, however: quite aside from the magazine capacity (most source give a figure of 50 or 45), the numbers provided don't add up: to get 510 available rounds, you'd need 27 30-round magazines (fully loaded rifle plus 26 extras).

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Also, rather than Dragon's Breath rounds, you might as well use explosive slugs for your shotgun, especially if it's an auto shotgun like the AA-12 or USAS-12.
Quite true; I think I'd noted that there are a variety of specialty slugs which can be loaded (some 'non-lethal' examples are listed here; some lethal strains can be found in this list).
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Old 2010-11-28, 00:18   Link #155
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I still see the Shocktroopers carrying some kind of SAW - I don't see the roles as seen in VC making a direct translation as to their roles in a modern unit.

I see the basic structure as broken into four men fireteams - Two scouts (standard riflemen - a fireteam leader and a grenadier), a shocktrooper (automatic rifleman - SAW), and an engineer (another rifleman, but he carries ammunition for the SAW and assists the gunner). Lancers would essentially be Scouts carrying man portable AT weapons, while engineers would also be folded into the scout role, but - unless in a specialized unit - would carry the extra ammunition for the Shocktrooper. I see the snipers as being broken into two different roles - either filling the more traditional sniper role or being attached to a unit as a squad sniper or designated marksman.
Just as a counter argument Shocktroopers would be a bit more clunky with a heavy automatic weapon, be it a section or platoon level weapon in a modern context. They'd be better fitted with a carbine of C8 FTHB and similar ilk that have a fully automatic function with vertical forestock, telescoping buttstock, reflex sight, and different attachments on the fore rails such as a night vision compatable laser. At least if one follows the idea that shocktroopers are meant to close with and destroy the enemy. Them being armed with a battle rifle automatic derivative in a post-2nd WW is fully supported though.

Say there's an eight man section with two machine guns. The section is broken down into two man teams. Because of the focus of fire on machine guns, particularly explosive, the lancers might be the guys who carry, with the anti-tank weapons being a shared burden among the section. The assistant gunner may be an engineer or even a sniper class (with semi-automatic rifle) as they'd be providing the long range rifle and automatic support.
The other two teams consist of a section command element and an assault element. The assault would consist of two shocktroopers with aforementioned weapons type above. Command on the other hand might consist of the scouts who're also lugging the section's radio and have the grenadier. Mind you the assault and command teams are probably the most flexible as to who is X class and it would vary from unit to unit.

MGT1: Lancer, Engineer
MGT2: Lancer, Engineer (or sniper)
Assault: Two shocktroopers (depending upon the unit)
Command: Scout (commander), Scout (grenadier) [depending upon the unit}

Last edited by Beri270T3; 2010-11-28 at 00:34.
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Old 2010-11-28, 01:24   Link #156
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I still still Shocktroopers as your CQB/Urban combat specialists.

Armed with submachine guns and shotguns for high mobility and devastating close range firepower.

Most likely wearing bulkier Class IIIA armour and helmets similar to the Russian Sphera or MASKA types.
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Old 2010-11-28, 20:00   Link #157
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At least if one follows the idea that shocktroopers are meant to close with and destroy the enemy.
Ah, this is where we differ. I see the close/destroy job being performed by the scouts, not the shocks. Again, that probably goes back to me having a hard time seeing a direct translation of roles - with the changes in tactics and technology post WWII I see a lot more blur and intermixing of roles within the unit. Essentially I'm putting scouts in the role you're putting shocks, and using shocks to provide suppressing fire and maintain fire superiority throughout a firefight instead of using them as the closing element. I agree that whatever the closing element is should be carrying something light and tight.


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Old 2010-11-28, 21:15   Link #158
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Actually you're both right. The thing is they DID include actual squad machine guns in Valkyria Chronicles 2. Your characters start out as basic Shocktroopers in VC2. As they gain certificates they have the option to branch into Trooper Veterans to further improve their Shocktrooper stats or branch into Gunners allowing them to equip actual squad machine guns. The default machine gun model in VC2 looks a lot like the British Bren LMG.

Gunners can then branch into Gunner Elites (like carrying a M249 SAW) or Heavy Gunners (like carrying a more heavier machine gun like an M60 or M240B). So they would technically be Shocktroopers with the Gunner specialization. We'll probably see this whole class branching mechanic back in VC3.
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Old 2010-11-28, 22:21   Link #159
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Hmmm. Well, then, in a transition of 70 years...

After thinking some more, I've come up with the following:

Scout and Shocktrooper roles are more or less conflated; they carry a light weapon capable of accurate automatic fire and close with the enemy, but at the same time probe forward - in other words, M4A1 carbines.

Alternatively, the Scout is a Designated Marksman, carrying an accurized 7.62mm semiauto rifle, to provide integral long-range precision support to the squad.

Heavy Scouts are obviously what the USMC calls Grenadies - troops with M203 grenade launchers. (Also in USMC doctrine, the Grenadier is the fireteam leader.)

Light Gunners are SAW gunners - their job is to suppress the enemy, not score hits, but putting up a good volume of suppression fire. However, if directed, they will focus their fine on a single target.

Heavy Gunners are the GPMG gunners of modern era, using a 7.62mm machine gun like the M60, M240, or the MG3. Their role, as with all MGs, is suppression fire and fire superiority.

Armored Techs are EOD. Let's be honest, I doubt anyone really used them offensively - it's too hard. They're good for clearning too many mines though. Veteran Techs would be the equivalent of Combat Engineers, since they errect fortifications and plant defenses.

Engineers are Medics, though with a more powerful weapon - again, a carbine, which has been seeing an upswing in popularity since the GWOT began.

Lancers and Mortarers are of course Javelin Gunners and Mortar crews; I don't believe there's a single-man portable mortar - though I could be wrong on that.
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Old 2010-11-29, 00:34   Link #160
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Hmmm. Well, then, in a transition of 70 years...

After thinking some more, I've come up with the following:

Scout and Shocktrooper roles are more or less conflated; they carry a light weapon capable of accurate automatic fire and close with the enemy, but at the same time probe forward - in other words, M4A1 carbines.

Alternatively, the Scout is a Designated Marksman, carrying an accurized 7.62mm semiauto rifle, to provide integral long-range precision support to the squad.

Heavy Scouts are obviously what the USMC calls Grenadies - troops with M203 grenade launchers. (Also in USMC doctrine, the Grenadier is the fireteam leader.)

Light Gunners are SAW gunners - their job is to suppress the enemy, not score hits, but putting up a good volume of suppression fire. However, if directed, they will focus their fine on a single target.

Heavy Gunners are the GPMG gunners of modern era, using a 7.62mm machine gun like the M60, M240, or the MG3. Their role, as with all MGs, is suppression fire and fire superiority.

Armored Techs are EOD. Let's be honest, I doubt anyone really used them offensively - it's too hard. They're good for clearning too many mines though. Veteran Techs would be the equivalent of Combat Engineers, since they errect fortifications and plant defenses.

Engineers are Medics, though with a more powerful weapon - again, a carbine, which has been seeing an upswing in popularity since the GWOT began.

Lancers and Mortarers are of course Javelin Gunners and Mortar crews; I don't believe there's a single-man portable mortar - though I could be wrong on that.
Great analysis in depth, Goose!

I guess it matches my prospect of having Alicia alternating between the M4A1 and a variant of the M14. Meanwhile, I'm starting to strongly consider what Rosie would look like as a heavy gunner (you can upgrade her to that rank in VC2) with the M60.
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