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Old 2009-05-08, 00:52   Link #41
4Tran
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Originally Posted by hamstar View Post
okay what about welkin's friend? the guy in anthropology, he's a squad leader as well. His dad is no war hero iirc.
His situation really isn't all that dissimilar from Welkin - in wartime, when there's a desperate need to increase the size of the standing army, it's not too unusual for a country to draw the officers straight from the universities or recent graduates. This would be especially true for educational institutions that incorporate some military training - this would be a system that wouldn't be too dissimilar from inter-war German Gymnasiums.

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I just sit in complete awe at what you could do with a degree back in the good ol' days. I never made a mistake really I clearly said pre-1950's so that still stands.
You didn't make a mistake - I just pointed out a more apt comparison. The reason why university graduates were treated with so much more respect back then is because they used to be far more rare - it used to be less than 5% of the population. With far more people graduating with degrees nowadays, there is correspondingly far less status attached to them.
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Old 2009-05-08, 07:20   Link #42
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We should stop talking about Economics and start talking about Welkin in Welkin's thread.
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Old 2009-05-08, 07:22   Link #43
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So, why don't you steer the discussion to more on-topic grounds, instead of simply complaining?

Like this: I, for one, find Welkin's character intriguing. He clearly would rather be doing something else, but he puts his responsibilities and the well-being of his charges before his own desires. That's something you don't see everyday, even in anime.
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Old 2009-05-08, 12:13   Link #44
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welkin seems like boring and not very likable character.


/on topic
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Old 2009-05-08, 12:42   Link #45
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welkin seems like boring and not very likable character.


/on topic
Give it time, man. Give it time.
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Old 2009-05-08, 12:43   Link #46
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Honestly, what's not to like about the guy?
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Old 2009-05-08, 13:27   Link #47
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The proper comparison is with inter-war Germany. Welkin would have recieved the same kind of military training that all young Gallians receive, and his post-secondary education and pedigree are what got him his commission. Given Welkin's personality and interests, it's almost certain that he would have gone on to pursue a graduate degree and stayed in academe.
Pretty sure they said in the anime that he received armor training in university so that pretty much gives him the necessary qualifications to be a tank commander.
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Old 2009-05-09, 00:46   Link #48
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honestly welkin seems like the male version of lacus from gundam seed/destiny. so innocent yet wealthy and...good at everything. yawn
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Old 2009-05-09, 03:38   Link #49
Tak
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honestly welkin seems like the male version of lacus from gundam seed/destiny. so innocent yet wealthy and...good at everything. yawn
Really?

Innocent (Huh)?

Wealthy (WHAT)?

and good at everything (except being bad with women, possess terrible social skills, and has no tact, etc)?

Surely you are not kidding?

- Tak

Last edited by Tak; 2009-05-09 at 03:56.
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Old 2009-05-09, 03:41   Link #50
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Yeah i'm with Tak. Have you even been observing his character over the past 5 episodes? Judging like that will get you nowhere.
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Old 2009-05-09, 09:24   Link #51
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Yeah i'm with Tak. Have you even been observing his character over the past 5 episodes? Judging like that will get you nowhere.
Can we at least go through one series without having to bring SEED into this?

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so innocent yet wealthy and...good at everything. yawn
Well he's a virgin and he's been studying in university so yes he should be pretty innocent like some of us here are. Good at everything? Aside from social skills his military skills aren't too bad but then again he's a university graduate living in a militaristic society that trains its people on how to fight. So yeah he should have the basics down in combat and such.
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Old 2009-05-09, 09:41   Link #52
hamstar
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Can we at least go through one series without having to bring SEED into this?



Well he's a virgin and he's been studying in university so yes he should be pretty innocent like some of us here are. Good at everything? Aside from social skills his military skills aren't too bad but then again he's a university graduate living in a militaristic society that trains its people on how to fight. So yeah he should have the basics down in combat and such.
In those days you had to be wealthy to afford to go to university, they didnt have student loans back then.

Regardless of his social skills (game), he seems to be surrounded by tsundere girls like Alisha and i know he is getting seduced by some blond in ep6. He seems to be genius leader type and can get people to cooperate with him even when they dont really like him.

I`m not sure if he`s a virgin (possible) but from the evidence presented it seems like he doesnt have any damning past to talk about. He doesnt seem to be even remotely interested in the opposite sex.

Theres a reason i compared him to Lacus. Both characters are unrealistic and not convincing as real people. Of course Lacus is a more ridiculous than Welkin for obvious reasons
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Old 2009-05-09, 10:10   Link #53
Tak
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In those days you had to be wealthy to afford to go to university, they didnt have student loans back then.
And you know this? Like, you know how the Galian education system work... how?

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Originally Posted by hamstar View Post
Regardless of his social skills (game), he seems to be surrounded by tsundere girls like Alisha and i know he is getting seduced by some blond in ep6. He seems to be genius leader type and can get people to cooperate with him even when they dont really like him.
I don't get how this is supposedly an attribute to him being good at everything as you have claimed.

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I`m not sure if he`s a virgin (possible) but from the evidence presented it seems like he doesnt have any damning past to talk about. He doesnt seem to be even remotely interested in the opposite sex.
Well, you did say he is good at everything. Clearly, he isn't good with women or people.

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Theres a reason i compared him to Lacus. Both characters are unrealistic and not convincing as real people. Of course Lacus is a more ridiculous than Welkin for obvious reasons
Well, aren't you a master of the obvious. Both characters are also works of fiction! Psst, they are not supposed to be real.

- Tak
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Old 2009-05-09, 12:25   Link #54
hamstar
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And you know this? Like, you know how the Galian education system work... how?



I don't get how this is supposedly an attribute to him being good at everything as you have claimed.



Well, you did say he is good at everything. Clearly, he isn't good with women or people.



Well, aren't you a master of the obvious. Both characters are also works of fiction! Psst, they are not supposed to be real.

- Tak
nice counter argument, you have swayed my beliefs with convincing reasoning.
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Old 2009-05-09, 15:07   Link #55
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Welkin probably is well situated, or was, his family owns an mansion, he is a son of a general. Generals tends to be paid well.

He is smart. Well, his military genius we have to take as granted, nothing in his tacticts suggest that he is any better from any average well trainded officer. But a way he avoided beeing send with thore retarded general to certain death was smart.
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Old 2009-05-09, 16:22   Link #56
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nice counter argument, you have swayed my beliefs with convincing reasoning.
Hey, I am just replying with your level.

- Tak
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:00   Link #57
4Tran
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Okay, everyone cool it a bit. If you're getting heated up over this kind of inconsequential argument, then you should just take a step back from posting for a while.


As for the question of whether Welkin is perfect (or a reasonable facsimile thereof ), I can't really see him categorized that way. He's far too much of a ditz for me to think of him in that manner. Then again, I don't really care whether anybody wants to call him a Gary Stu - being able to do everything doesn't preclude a character from being well-written or entertaining, so I think that it's a very meaningless form of literary analysis/examination/what have you. In terms of comparable characters, he seems to be mostly Yang Wenli from Legend of Galactic Heroes with a pinch of Yurika from Nadesico thrown in.
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Old 2009-05-10, 01:44   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamstar View Post
In those days you had to be wealthy to afford to go to university, they didnt have student loans back then.

Regardless of his social skills (game), he seems to be surrounded by tsundere girls like Alisha and i know he is getting seduced by some blond in ep6. He seems to be genius leader type and can get people to cooperate with him even when they dont really like him.

I`m not sure if he`s a virgin (possible) but from the evidence presented it seems like he doesnt have any damning past to talk about. He doesnt seem to be even remotely interested in the opposite sex.

Theres a reason i compared him to Lacus. Both characters are unrealistic and not convincing as real people. Of course Lacus is a more ridiculous than Welkin for obvious reasons
So it's his fault that he's surrounded by tsundere girls? Not like he asked to be in this situation to begin with. He didn't volunteer to be a leader, and he didn't want to join the Militia, except for the fact that a war's going on. He'd much rather be doing other things.

It's irrelevant if he's a virgin or not, but if you want to make a big deal out of his 'innocence', chalk it up to lack of experience. Something he's getting heavy doses of now. When you're his age, there's still much you have to learn about life in general, not to mention everything else.

He and Lacus are nothing alike I don't know why you are comparing the two. He attended a college and underwent military training. He wasn't some pop-singer who turned to a leader overnight. The foundations were already set for the direction he was going.

Outside of G-Gundam, SEED was about as outrageous as a Gundam series could get(until GSD surpassed it in horrible writing and recycled animation). There's no reason to compare the SEED universe to this series' universe.
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Old 2009-05-10, 08:05   Link #59
kalbron
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Why do people purposely ignore the Gallian education system when trying to make a point about "duh, character X couldn't do that because they're only Y years old!".

Well sure. In our time maybe not but Gallia trains their children to fight for their country from primary school. Finding an inept soldier in Gallia basically means looking outside of the state education system, eg: General Doman, who I would assume, being a noble and all, wouldn't have set foot in a "common" teaching institution.
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Old 2009-05-10, 10:05   Link #60
Tak
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Well sure. In our time maybe not but Gallia trains their children to fight for their country from primary school. Finding an inept soldier in Gallia basically means looking outside of the state education system, eg: General Doman, who I would assume, being a noble and all, wouldn't have set foot in a "common" teaching institution.
Even in our time, there are countries where children begin military training at a fairly young age. From industrialized nations like Switzerland to poor nations like Ethiopia, children & teens begin their military education early.

What I don't get is, look, just because your country does not offer military education at a young age, does not mean others don't.

On the other hand, with Gallia being based on WW2 Germany, kids training in the arts of war would have started pretty damn early.

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