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Old 2009-05-09, 13:38   Link #61
Haak
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Oh, I see.

Well I don't know about you but when I was in college we had different euphamisms for penis almost every single day. (Because, like, we were so mature). It's not very hard, really.

'Johnny' seemed like a euphamism to me. But now that he used it in a serious scene twice indicates that it was an actual person. Maybe it was that NEET he was talking to.
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Old 2009-05-09, 13:48   Link #62
izmosmolnar
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Well yeah you folks are right, it can be interpreted in such a way that #1 knew, that Akira is about to lose his memories voluntarily, and since he is the Supporter (most likely, but not 100% yet), he's familiar with orders, and if Akira purchased the mindwhipe program, he can find it out through the selecao purchase history. If that's right, than Juiz might refer on the preparations back to Japan, and not initiating the mindwhipe program.
I maybe too conspirational, but I'm still inclined to think it was #1's deed and Akira was only prepared for that, but of course I cannot dismiss the possibility Akira thought out some kinda manipulative, grand deceive.
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Old 2009-05-09, 14:02   Link #63
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There just still isn't enough for us to decide on any one theory so it is still a good theory, imo. I'm hoping it isn't because after watching Code Geass, I've had my fill of grand deceptions.
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Old 2009-05-09, 14:18   Link #64
izmosmolnar
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Yeah I would also find it too "corny", if the whole thing was Akira's manipulation, and at a convenient time he's going to regain his memories or something like that. "JUST AS KEIKAKU"



PS: TL note: Keikaku means plan

------
Edit: Wild guess/hunch:
Johnny is the past Akira. That's why he was happy to see him again. He may have subconsciously thought he reunites with his past, even though he regards him as useless bastard (which he may have been actually, if he was a freeter or a NEET).
And now in ep5 he says "If you were given ten billion yen to save this country, even you'd have to limit your irresponsibility. That's why Johnny became like that too.."
Which can be interpreted his past self went through significant character-changes, after obtaining the 10 billion. He ceased to be irresponsible and he became the "messiah".
Of course I might be totally off. What do you folks think?

Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-05-09 at 16:18.
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Old 2009-05-09, 20:06   Link #65
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KEIKAKU DOORI!

SAKUSEN DOORI!

YAKUSOKU DOORI!

"Doori" is such a convenient word, I wish there was something similar in english and my language.

Anyway about the memory erase, it is certain that Akira planned to do that and since a long time. It is unknown why but he probably had his own reason. I'm inclined to believe that he told about this plan to the NEETs, it's hard to believe that the NEET we are shown can accept that easily that Akira has lost his memories. Even if it was a known technology I think people would be very surprised if someone they knew told them they used that.

However we can't say for sure that number I doesn't have anything to do with this. There are several possibilities:

The mindwipe happened before Akira planned.
The mindwipe was done in a different way than what Akira planned

If what Kondo speculates is true, then the supporter has the power to interfere with the other selešao's operations. I mean he managed to make Kondo's last SMS go to the wrong person, it is not unthinkable that he managed to make Akira's order being carried before the scheduled time.
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Old 2009-05-10, 04:44   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
Edit: Wild guess/hunch:
Johnny is the past Akira. That's why he was happy to see him again. He may have subconsciously thought he reunites with his past, even though he regards him as useless bastard (which he may have been actually, if he was a freeter or a NEET).
And now in ep5 he says "If you were given ten billion yen to save this country, even you'd have to limit your irresponsibility. That's why Johnny became like that too.."
Which can be interpreted his past self went through significant character-changes, after obtaining the 10 billion. He ceased to be irresponsible and he became the "messiah".
Of course I might be totally off. What do you folks think?
Oh yeah, I never considered that. he could be refferring to himself. Though that would mean he didn't choose the right passport after all. Because none of them were!

Another hunch: Psycho killer lady seems to know #1 to some extent. I expected the supporter to kill her in the last episode just like Kondo and Doc. But she didn't die. Is it possible that MR.OUTSIDE approves of what she is doig because she's killing NEETS?
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Old 2009-05-10, 04:58   Link #67
izmosmolnar
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No, what I meant is he choose the right passport for one reason or other. But his new self refers on his past by "Johnny", which he says subconsciously like a Nickname, Petname or something. His real name could be still Akira, but his past self bore the Nickname/Username Johnny, and that's how his new self deep down regards his past self. (I really doubt japanese people would use the name Johnny officially anyway).

As I said I don't know what to think about the blue haired girl. It somehow saddens me she is still alive, and the Supporter killed the Brain Surgeon (if he was indeed killed by the Supporter). His crimes were really minor, compared with #11's, who kills and dismembers innocents at nights. It's possible she does something really beneficial, which makes the supporter/Outosideo to "overlook" her murders, but it still puzzles me why she talks about it so openly. Maybe her team even knows about the whole Selecao game.
For now I would guess she does something really good in the eyes of the Supporter/Outosideo (or I cannot even eliminate the possibility she is the Supporter, and #1 just behaves like one for one reason or other), and he/they just ignore #11's absurd pleasure.

Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-05-10 at 05:41.
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Old 2009-05-10, 07:16   Link #68
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I think there are some rules that we are still unaware of. Number XI seems to know them well.

I don't think she is actually doing something useful for the country, she isn't even trying. I think she knows she's going to die (she actually says that) and therefore she's living the rest of her life as at her fullest satisfying any of her dreams.

Both her and Kondo are pretty similar, except Kondo wasn't as psycho as her. For some reason the supporter didn't stop them. So far he only killed selešao who have depleted their 10 billion account. And maybe he tried to kill Akira, but since we don't know what he was trying to do we can't know what rule he broke. Maybe the long time of inactivity in japan is the cause, who knows.

Anyway it appears that there are some things the supporter overlooks and some other that the supporter won't overlook. Apparently number XI thinks that making the prime minister say "uncle" is worse than killing people.
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Old 2009-05-10, 07:35   Link #69
izmosmolnar
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Well, yeah you are right. It's even possible the supporter isn't as strict as we think and he only kills people who have depleted their full account, and the "rule" regarding that was just for urging the selecaos not to spend it for their own benefit.
In which case the brain surgeon guy was killed by someone else. It is entirely possible. Look at it this way: We've seen his full face now in episode 5, we've seen his hands, ring etc even in ep1, than why didn't they showed us anything of him in ep4? We cannot eliminate the possibility the murder was done by someone else than the supporter, maybe someone who acted on the Supporter's command, maybe even someone completely not directly related.
If that's right, we can also assume, that the reason the supporter isn't intervening with #11's nasty habit (and the reason he ignored Kondo until the end) is because he isn't as strict what they are spending the money on. He only comes after them, once they spent all of it. I sure hope #11 won't stick around for long, she didn't particularly won my sympathy so far with her obscene habit.

What's your take on the Johnny = past Akira theory?
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Old 2009-05-10, 07:52   Link #70
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I don't really know what to say about that. That sentence about "johnny" at the end of episode5 left me like... uhm wtf. It gave me the feeling of a bad translation or something, but then maybe not.

Does a Johnny really exist? And how Akira is supposed to remember it? It doesn't make much sense, doesn't it?
Supposing he's talking about himself, why he's calling his old self "Johnny" all of a sudden, and why he now thinks to know the meaning behind his apparently illogical actions?
Well the chances that he's talking about himself are pretty high. I mean who else was given 10 billion yens to save the country? And i doubt he's talking about Kondo or Hiura and he doesn't know any other selešao.
Maybe he's just taking a guess on his past self and calls him "johhny" because he doesn't know the real name.
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Old 2009-05-10, 07:59   Link #71
Haak
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Well, Johnny can be either one of these:
1) His past self
2) A friend he knew.
3) The NEET he was talking to.
4) #1
5) Another Selecao
6) The supporter
7) MR. OUTSIDE.

[edit]

Yes, I have changed my Username.
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Old 2009-05-10, 08:34   Link #72
izmosmolnar
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Yeah first I read it I was like that too, but I doubt it's a translation error (gg's subs are quite good quality after all IMHO).
Well other than the past Akira, none of the other people he can refer makes much sense. He doesn't know any other people who suddenly "ceased to be irresponsible" due to 10 billion yen. I mean he doesn't know what was Kondo, or Hiura like before obtaining the money, so he shouldn't say he/they "became" someone else from being the "irresponsible" they could/should have been. Not to mention I have no idea why would he be happy to see him/them again in a delusion, where they are portrayed as Aliens O_o.
It's clearly weird he somehow blurted it out at the end of ep5, but that's the only logical explanation I can come up with.
It's also possible he may have regained some memory, but doesn't share it with the viewer, and that memory is about another (supposedly friendly) selecao who he knew sometimes, and he observed some sort of personality change of that selecao after that selecao started using the money. But that seems rather far-fetched to be honest.
Or as I said some time ago, he may refer some ancient film he saw, but no one even remembers it anymore. Though I seriously doubt there is a film with a Johnny named "alien" who suddenly got a hold of 10 billion yen (not other currency). If it's really a film reference, than because he clearly said Yen, chances are high it has be a japanese film, or anime or something similar.
Well I honestly think that's pretty weak to be true. To me personally, the theory I came up with, in which Johnny refers on his past self seems much more possible than anything else I can think of so far.

Last edited by izmosmolnar; 2009-05-10 at 08:47.
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Old 2009-05-10, 09:40   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Another hunch: Psycho killer lady seems to know #1 to some extent. I expected the supporter to kill her in the last episode just like Kondo and Doc. But she didn't die. Is it possible that MR.OUTSIDE approves of what she is doig because she's killing NEETS?
Are you basing that off of the fat guy at the very start of the first episode? Maybe it's my terrible memory, but I don't remember her saying she only enjoys killing NEETS. It actually seems impulsive and random to me, plus she's apparently unconsciously (though quite open afterwards) doing it, and it would be weird for the unconscious killer killer inside of her to be targeting NEETs specifically. Neither Ossugi nor the dude next to him looked like NEET material either.

So at the point, I would actually approve the NEET reasoning, since then we can assume Mr. OUTSIDE really does think the NEETs are a huge problem to Japan. It would explain why he allows psycho lady to go and kill them off, and it would explain why he allow Akira to kidnap 20,000 of them and send them to Duban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
Well, yeah you are right. It's even possible the supporter isn't as strict as we think and he only kills people who have depleted their full account, and the "rule" regarding that was just for urging the selecaos not to spend it for their own benefit.
In which case the brain surgeon guy was killed by someone else. It is entirely possible. Look at it this way: We've seen his full face now in episode 5, we've seen his hands, ring etc even in ep1, than why didn't they showed us anything of him in ep4? We cannot eliminate the possibility the murder was done by someone else than the supporter, maybe someone who acted on the Supporter's command, maybe even someone completely not directly related.
If that's right, we can also assume, that the reason the supporter isn't intervening with #11's nasty habit (and the reason he ignored Kondo until the end) is because he isn't as strict what they are spending the money on. He only comes after them, once they spent all of it. I sure hope #11 won't stick around for long, she didn't particularly won my sympathy so far with her obscene habit.

What's your take on the Johnny = past Akira theory?
These are also interesting points that you brought up. I really do hope the rule you're referring too isn't just a rule placed there for the sake of scaring the Selecao into using the money properly, because it doesn't seem to be working all that well. Pretty much all of the Selecao we've met up until have been ignoring that rule, using the money for their own personal desires. If Mr. Outside and the Supporter are strict enough to consider Hiura's actions personal satisfaction, then it doesn't make sense that people like psycho lady and Kondo are/were running out for so long. So in the end, it does seem like just a fake rule, or maybe there's just a big loophole that we don't know about yet. If that's really the case, it brings up my question from the very beginning about Mr. Outside's Selecao selection process...

Now as for the guy who killed Hiura, I really do think that's the actual Supporter. You bring up a good point in them showing so much of number 1 already, and not showing any of him when he "kills" number V. I think they're just trying to purposely throw us off, pointing all of the Supporter arrows at number 1 when he really isn't. There's no denying that number I isn't just another Selecao though, there is something about him that's different. My theory right now is that whoever killed Hiura is the real supporter, and number I is Mr. Outside. I do support the possibility that Hiura could have also been killed by someone inadvertently working for the Supporter, in a similar fashion to how Kondo died. If that were the case though, the only reason the face would be hidden was if it's some important character that's going to still play a future role in the series. Hell, it could even be psycho lady.

Speaking of which, I have a feeling she's going to be one of the Selecao who stick around for a while, maybe even become somewhat of an antagonist. She already looks like she's going to be the link between Akira's and Saki's stories, so why not?

And finally, I do think Johnny is Akira's past self, for reasons already touched upon by other members.
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Old 2009-05-10, 10:15   Link #74
MeoTwister5
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For reasons unknown to even myself, I just have a belief that Johnny (assuming it's not a translation mistake) might be Selecao #1 himself. Of course there's nothing to back that up, but it feels like a far more plausible possibility when one considers that the NEET who talked to Akira referred to him AS Akira, his identity before he wiped his own mind. The bigger question there was how this former NEET essentially knew that Akira wiped his own mind when this should only be something known to Selecao.

Akira's saying to Saki that "He's gonna do something about it" seems to suggest that Saki's rant about immature idiotic adults helped him understand what he needs to do to save Japan, or at least part of it. I assume he's going to use his money to do exactly that, that he thinks Japanese capitalist and business culture has become so excessively elitist that it's alienating the younger generation and turning them into unproductive citizens. This could possibly be linked to the entire NEET debacle.
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Old 2009-05-10, 10:39   Link #75
izmosmolnar
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@Meotwister5. I also thought that's the conclusion Akira eventually made. The other reason why I believe so, is how later on we could even link that back to the NEET issue, which would eventually show us viewers what happened with the 20000.
If Akira would start pursuing some different approach to "save the country" (corruption, health-welfare etc) chances are a lot slimmer we viewers might find out the mistery behind the NEETs, and there would be almost no reason, that the storywriters puzzled us with so many clues about them. Of course it's possible I'm wrong.
However I still maintain my belief about Johnny being the past Akira's nickname or codename.
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Old 2009-05-10, 10:46   Link #76
Haak
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Quote:
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Are you basing that off of the fat guy at the very start of the first episode? Maybe it's my terrible memory, but I don't remember her saying she only enjoys killing NEETS. It actually seems impulsive and random to me, plus she's apparently unconsciously (though quite open afterwards) doing it, and it would be weird for the unconscious killer killer inside of her to be targeting NEETs specifically. Neither Ossugi nor the dude next to him looked like NEET material either.

So at the point, I would actually approve the NEET reasoning, since then we can assume Mr. OUTSIDE really does think the NEETs are a huge problem to Japan. It would explain why he allows psycho lady to go and kill them off, and it would explain why he allow Akira to kidnap 20,000 of them and send them to Duban.
[/QUOTE]

There isn't really anything to suggest that the psycho lady likes to kill NEETS. I just thought it might explain why the supporter hadn't killed her yet and why she talked about #1 as if she knew him to some extent.

Plus I think Ohsugi looked like a NEET when the psycho lady found him. I mean he was lying on the floor drunk trying not to puke.
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Old 2009-05-10, 11:52   Link #77
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1. Both selecao killed so far were killed because they used up their accounts, not for what they did with them. I think the Supporter is pretty forgiving about what the money is used for. He's not judging ahead of time what will or will not save Japan. Maybe torturing and killing fat businessmen will save the country. (I think the guy in the chair is more likely that than a NEET, but we'll see.)

2. Diana (blue-hair) has not yet approached Oosugi. She is walking toward both him and the guy with the umbrella on the other side of the street. We won't know for sure until next week which one of them she went for. I personally think she probably made an appointment to meet the other guy and they are both carrying umbrellas as a sign.

3. Johnny as Akira's past self makes some sense. He could have adopted the nickname from a movie. Which movie?

4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister
...he thinks Japanese capitalist and business culture has become so excessively elitist that it's alienating the younger generation and turning them into unproductive citizens
This makes sense to me, too. In fact, if that's what Akira and Saki think, I agree with them. It's more than just elitist: try sexist, aggressive, demanding overwork, immoral in its methods (e.g., getting "entertainment" for clients), unimaginatively conventional, etc. And economically successful, lol.

5. I think Oosugi is acting more like a salaryman than a NEET, lying there puking outside a fancy restaurant.
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Old 2009-05-10, 11:57   Link #78
izmosmolnar
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I'm sorry Kaoru but where have you seen that Dr. Hiura used up all his money? I've thought he still had money left (though I remember Akira offered him money at the end).
Even his first reaction was something like "I don't want to die while I still have money left". Did he used all his remaining money with the call to Akira?
edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Which movie?
Well since it's a really popular western name, it's really hard to guess which. We don't know almost anything about his background, and my guess is (provided he choose it from a movie), he would choose Johnny if they are similar characters. Maybe Johnny English?
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Old 2009-05-10, 12:34   Link #79
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by izmosmolnar View Post
I'm sorry Kaoru but where have you seen that Dr. Hiura used up all his money? I've thought he still had money left (though I remember Akira offered him money at the end)....
There was a phone screen at ~17:24 of ep4:



Click to enlarge. it says that he dropped his account to Y268million by spending Y900million to set up a medical investment fund; then he wiped it out altogether with a Y268million contribution to another medical fund.

I believe he drugged Akira to give himself time to spend all his money before seeing him, fearing that Akira might be intending to stop him.

As for Johnny, what about the 1995 film Johnny Mnemonic, an adaptation of a William Gibson novel: "Johnny is a data trafficker who has an implant that allows him to securely store data too sensitive for regular computer networks. His brain can carry nearly 80 gigabytes worth of data, or 160 gigabytes if he uses a doubler. Johnny uses this implant to act as a courier between contracting parties. On one delivery run, he accepts a package that not only exceeds the implant's safety limits (and will thus kill him if the data isn't removed in time), but also proves to contain information far more important and valuable than he had ever imagined. He has to remove the data and avoid being killed by assassins sent after him by the company who owns the data." 80 gigabytes would have seemed like a lot of data in 1995.

When I hear "Johnny," I can't help thinking of Johnny Depp, who could play Akira, I think.

There's also Short Circuit, with the robot Johnny 5.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2009-05-10 at 13:18.
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Old 2009-05-10, 13:51   Link #80
izmosmolnar
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Oh I see I didn't noticed that until now! When I've seen that scene I've thought it's his own phone and not Hiura's. It was so quick I didn't paid enough attention on the numbers.
Yeah that makes it more probable he was killed by someone entrusted by the Supporter, or as Tamad mentioned in his theory, the Supporter himself, since he used all his money.

Believe it or not when I typed it in wikipedia, Johnny Mnemonic was the first thing crossed my mind too first. (I loved that film when I was a kid!)
However if I remember it correctly (I've seen it like about 10 years ago so don't take my word for it), but Johnny didn't particularly seemed like an irresponsible guy to me there. Actually it's the opposite, since he's entrusted with the thing (virus was it or something important) and he is responsible to deliver it. Of course it's entirely possible he might got the nickname from here, because that's cyberpunk too, and we've seen plenty of cyberpunk reference already (Ghost in the Shell mostly).
I'm not entirely 100% sure his nickname (if Johnny is indeed a nickname and my theory is right about that) would come from a film though, but it is certainly possible for now.

Well yeah Johnny Depp could play his role genuinely, if they ever going to make a Live film adaptation.

Hmm. after a quick google search:
Johnny Boy who is quite an irresponsible fellow in a mafia film called Mean Streets, 1973. Another interesting thing: Played by Robert De Niro who was also the protagonist of the first film Eden of the East mentioned: Taxi Driver.
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