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Old 2009-05-29, 21:09   Link #481
Ekul
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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
Kallen and Rolo were two very different people.
Well, I didn't say it didn't make sense, I meant I always thought it was weird as in interesting. Poor choice of words on my part.
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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
Crazy-robo-Shirley could actually be an endearing (if slightly cheesy) scene where she's about to kill Lelouch (or oh-so-much-better-yet Rolo), and Lelouch gives her a "You can't do it because it's not in your nature (and I possibly love you)" speech, resulting in the standard crying and apologizing hug scene (I believe both these characters needed more hugs).
Yeah, this is pretty much how I would have pictured it. Any scenario with insanity, murder, cyborgs and hugs is great in my book.
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Old 2009-05-29, 21:37   Link #482
Rising Dragon
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I can see it now. "Shirley! Be Shirley, not him."

(I know, I totally ripped that off of Animorphs. So sue me.)
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Old 2009-05-29, 22:20   Link #483
Sol Falling
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:P Crazy Shirley is going a little too far, I think. There's really no way I think she'd ever have gone against Lelouch, psycho cyborg modifications or not.

Also, though it's cool that lots of you are fine with full out modifications for Shirley, I'm still a bit reserved. Going on the bit that the aim would just have been to keep Shirley alive by giving her a bit of the aforementioned Code physiology, I think at least her face could have been left unscathed. No need to really freak out her mom or be shunned from the public or anything.

Shirley piloting Seigfried is pretty hilarious though. I don't really think it would have fit her to become another one of Lelouch's fighters, but even just knowing she had the ability if she ever really needed it would be great.
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Old 2009-05-29, 23:14   Link #484
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Well, I doubt they could've actually produced an artificial Geass power with technology alone, even with data gleaned from Code R. Otherwise they'd have probably already reproduced a Code by then.

I don't doubt that Jeremiah's being a cyborg played a role in how it turned out, but I do think that the Geass Canceler is a Geass in itself. Why else would V.V. have been personally involved?
What morbos said. Also, wasn't Rolo's geass artificially created?

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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Unfortunately, Lelouch, being Lelouch, would almost certainly use her funeral to stage further Xanatos Gambits. Also, he gets to keep her (largely) for himself. Oh yes, I wouldn't put it beneath Lelouch to do something like this.
Hmm, I could see Lelouch faking her death, mainly because it was Rolo who tried to kill her and that could cause some problems. Plus, if he's gonna take her away and do stuff to her on his own (that didn't come out right) well, it won't take long for people to start asking questions. Then again, Lelouch is the master of making up stories.

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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
Crazy-robo-Shirley could actually be an endearing (if slightly cheesy) scene where she's about to kill Lelouch (or oh-so-much-better-yet Rolo), and Lelouch gives her a "You can't do it because it's not in your nature (and I possibly love you)" speech, resulting in the standard crying and apologizing hug scene (I believe both these characters needed more hugs).
Hmm, kinda like the end of Stage 14. Only cyborgified.

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I can see it now. "Shirley! Be Shirley, not him."

(I know, I totally ripped that off of Animorphs. So sue me.)
Ah, don't worry RD. I'm pretty sure most people aren't even aware of that series' existence. Much less that line. (no offense )

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Also, though it's cool that lots of you are fine with full out modifications for Shirley, I'm still a bit reserved. Going on the bit that the aim would just have been to keep Shirley alive by giving her a bit of the aforementioned Code physiology, I think at least her face could have been left unscathed. No need to really freak out her mom or be shunned from the public or anything.
I very much agree with that assessment.

LOL, may as well rename this the Cyborg Shirley thread.
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Old 2009-05-29, 23:16   Link #485
morbosfist
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What morbos said. Also, wasn't Rolo's geass artificially created?
Rolo's referred to as a failed experiment, so maybe they were trying to cultivate a specific Geass and it backfired.
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Old 2009-05-30, 00:47   Link #486
Ekul
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Spoiler for Cyborg Shirley:


Uh, well I'm no master at shopping images, but here's my best shot at it.
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Old 2009-05-30, 00:51   Link #487
Sol Falling
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I think the failure on Rolo's part was the fact that his Geass hurt himself and could even kill him. With regards to 'experimentation', well, wasn't one of the plotlines of the first season that only certain people carried 'Geass potential'? Maybe Rolo's defective Geass came from the effects of trying to give a Geass to a normal person.
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Old 2009-05-30, 00:58   Link #488
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I really don't know where this whole "Geass potential" plotline came from. I've searched for material and interviews about it and found nothing, and no one ever supplied me with proof when I asked for it, and Shirley seemed to know Lelouch was about to Geass her that first time, so I do think its possible for people to see the Geass sigil in a person's eyes.

If she couldn't see the Geass appearing in Lelouch's eyes, how would she have known to scream "No!" at him right before he used it?
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Old 2009-05-30, 01:18   Link #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekul View Post
Spoiler for Cyborg Shirley:


Uh, well I'm no master at shopping images, but here's my best shot at it.
*shudders* too much metal. Well, good try anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I really don't know where this whole "Geass potential" plotline came from. I've searched for material and interviews about it and found nothing, and no one ever supplied me with proof when I asked for it
I'm thinking the same thing. I don't see why a person would need "geass potential" or how that's even necessary or practical. I imagine it would make things a bit harder for the code bearer. Maybe that's just a plotline that the writers decided to abandon.

Quote:
and Shirley seemed to know Lelouch was about to Geass her that first time, so I do think its possible for people to see the Geass sigil in a person's eyes.

If she couldn't see the Geass appearing in Lelouch's eyes, how would she have known to scream "No!" at him right before he used it?
Hmm, not sure exactly how this came up but that part did always kind of confuse me. Lets assume she did see the sigil in his eye (which I think is entirely possible, I think the sigil is meant to be visible just as the red rings around those afflicted with geass) she still would have had to see someone else use a geass before and then associate it with Lelouch's to get the connection. Mao perhaps? But wasn't he always wearing sunglasses?
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Old 2009-05-30, 01:27   Link #490
Rising Dragon
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I was under the impression that Mao told her what the Geass was. He had plenty of time and it'd be one more thing to throw in her face in an effort to break her will so she'd help him kill Lelouch.
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Old 2009-05-30, 01:34   Link #491
Sol Falling
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eh...I'm not really sure where the idea came from specifically either, but wasn't 'geass potential' part of that whole thing with Suzaku's ability to 'see' C.C.? I pretty sure the idea wasn't completely baseless, although it's true that nothing ever really came out of it.

I think whether or not Shirley was able to see 'Geass light' in Lelouch's eyes, or the issue of whether 'Geass light' is visible to normal people in general, is debatable. Given the memory loss effect and the rarity of Geass users in general, having Geass light be visible shouldn't present any significant plotholes. On the other hand, I think Lelouch's tone, posture, words, etc. could have sufficiently communicated to Shirley that something was making Lelouch act that way that the additional condition 'there was some weird red light in Lelouch's eyes' isn't absolutely necessary.

That is to say, even if Geass potential as a requirement were confirmed, canon has never explicitly denied that Shirley had that potential anyway. I just think 'Geass potential' provides a fairly solid explanation for what 'experimentation' referred to with regards to Rolo's geass.

edit:

eh, Mao telling Shirley about the details of Geass is certainly possible, but I think in no way confirmable or necessary. With regards to the whole 'visibility' issue, my position is 'there's nothing definate one way or another'.
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Old 2009-05-30, 01:38   Link #492
Ekul
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If we remove the anime aspect for a moment, their eyes would be drastically smaller, and so it may actually be difficult to see the Geass if you aren't looking for it.
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
*shudders* too much metal. Well, good try anyway.
I used to be a sprite artist, so I probably overdid the metal because, well, there's not as much detail in a sprite comic. I know that's a terrible excuse, but it's just something I made on a whim anyway.
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Old 2009-05-30, 01:51   Link #493
Rising Dragon
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In regards to the Suzaku/C.C. thing, that was the dropped plotline of Suzaku having some sort of connection to Geass, not potential for Geass.

As for potential itself, I think it'd be fairly more believable if it weren't for the fact that we saw thousands of kids with Charles and V.V. in the Marianne-death-explanation flashback. There was just a little too many there for it to be just about potential. Closer to mass-production, really.

The way I see it, the only "potential" that's needed for Geass is the potential to use Geass, which is essentially what Code-bearers want, right? Why give a bunch of ordinary people the Geass if they don't have the will to use it enough to progress it?

So I think this whole potential thing's a sham or a misconception based on Suzaku's connection, and that Shirley at least knew of the Geass, or saw the symbol appearing in Lelouch's eye before he Geassed her into forgetting him.
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Old 2009-05-30, 02:08   Link #494
Nobodyman9
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I was under the impression that Mao told her what the Geass was. He had plenty of time and it'd be one more thing to throw in her face in an effort to break her will so she'd help him kill Lelouch.
Ah. Did he happen to describe to her what the geass sigil looked like? LOL. I'm just kiddin' ya RD.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I think whether or not Shirley was able to see 'Geass light' in Lelouch's eyes, or the issue of whether 'Geass light' is visible to normal people in general, is debatable. Given the memory loss effect and the rarity of Geass users in general, having Geass light be visible shouldn't present any significant plotholes. On the other hand, I think Lelouch's tone, posture, words, etc. could have sufficiently communicated to Shirley that something was making Lelouch act that way that the additional condition 'there was some weird red light in Lelouch's eyes' isn't absolutely necessary.
Hmm, that's a very good point. Are the geass sigils and red eyes really visible or did the animators just make it that way to make it more apparent to us, the viewers, that a person was using or was afflicted by geass? These also brings to mind how the geass sigil to seems to fly out of the wielders eye as it is being used, though I don't think that actually happened and most-likely was just used for dramatic effect. Still, does anyone recall any of the characters indicating that they could see redness in another characters' eyes?

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Originally Posted by Ekul View Post
I used to be a sprite artist, so I probably overdid the metal because, well, there's not as much detail in a sprite comic. I know that's a terrible excuse, but it's just something I made on a whim anyway.
Hey, no worries. It's better than anything I could have done. Kudos.

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
The way I see it, the only "potential" that's needed for Geass is the potential to use Geass, which is essentially what Code-bearers want, right? Why give a bunch of ordinary people the Geass if they don't have the will to use it enough to progress it?

So I think this whole potential thing's a sham or a misconception based on Suzaku's connection, and that Shirley at least knew of the Geass, or saw the symbol appearing in Lelouch's eye before he Geassed her into forgetting him.
This is another good point. You certainly don't want to go handing out Geasses to Prissy McDingbat. That very well could have been what they implied. So that's not to say that they couldn't give a certain person a geass, it's just that it wouldn't be a wise idea.
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Old 2009-05-30, 05:48   Link #495
yezhanquan
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Spoiler for a short account on "revived" Shirley with Lelouch:


Spoiler for a visit from Orange-sama...:
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Old 2009-05-30, 06:57   Link #496
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
In regards to the Suzaku/C.C. thing, that was the dropped plotline of Suzaku having some sort of connection to Geass, not potential for Geass.
I'm not too sure how Suzaku having a 'connection' to Geass would have worked out, but at least the fact that Suzaku saw a 'vision' of C.C. similar to Lelouch's before he got his Geass suggests to me the dropped plotline was about him having the potential to be a user.

Quote:
As for potential itself, I think it'd be fairly more believable if it weren't for the fact that we saw thousands of kids with Charles and V.V. in the Marianne-death-explanation flashback. There was just a little too many there for it to be just about potential. Closer to mass-production, really.
Experimentation and mass-production go hand in hand. The contrast between Rolo/the Geass children's relationship with their presumed contractor (practically none) and the relationships of the other Geass users (C.C. with the nun, Charles with V.V., Mao and Lelouch with C.C., all definately personal) was really my point. Given that Rolo/the Geass children were 'experiments', them obtaining Geass not via the normal means makes sense.

Quote:
The way I see it, the only "potential" that's needed for Geass is the potential to use Geass, which is essentially what Code-bearers want, right? Why give a bunch of ordinary people the Geass if they don't have the will to use it enough to progress it?

So I think this whole potential thing's a sham or a misconception based on Suzaku's connection, and that Shirley at least knew of the Geass, or saw the symbol appearing in Lelouch's eye before he Geassed her into forgetting him.
Given some spoilers for the Nightmare of Nunally manga, Geass potential (hereditary, even) definately exists as a plot element in at least one supplementary manga. Although that doesn't prove anything, I think insisting Shirley knew about Geass just because she believed Lelouch when he said he'd erase her memories is just as weak an argument.

edit:

nice shorts, yezhanquan. There's a bit of tense confusion about two paragraphs in for your second one, but otherwise they're pretty good.
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Old 2009-05-30, 14:27   Link #497
Nobodyman9
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I'm not too sure how Suzaku having a 'connection' to Geass would have worked out, but at least the fact that Suzaku saw a 'vision' of C.C. similar to Lelouch's before he got his Geass suggests to me the dropped plotline was about him having the potential to be a user.
Hmm, I was never all that good at speculating (I like to be surprised) but if Suzaku was to have some kind of connection to geass I thought it would be like a genetic thing. Like perhaps his family had some kind of historical connection to the origins of geass. I don't know.

Quote:
Given some spoilers for the Nightmare of Nunally manga, Geass potential (hereditary, even) definately exists as a plot element in at least one supplementary manga. Although that doesn't prove anything, I think insisting Shirley knew about Geass just because she believed Lelouch when he said he'd erase her memories is just as weak an argument.
Well, having discussed this a bit, I still have no idea why Shirley screamed "No!" just before Lelouch was going to geass her. Maybe it was some kind of instinctive reaction or maybe writers just did it for dramatic effect

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Spoiler for a short account on "revived" Shirley with Lelouch:


Spoiler for a visit from Orange-sama...:
Like Sol said, remember to keep it in past tense and there are a few other minor problems, but otherwise these were really good. I wouldn't mind reading a full fanfic of this, but I think they're fine as short little skits too. You should put this on the Fanfiction thread.
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Old 2009-05-30, 18:59   Link #498
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Yeah, scribbled those two snippets in less than half an hour while waiting for my parents to be ready for a dinner outside. I intended for them to be snippets, as I should be writing my resume instead.

Just glad that you guys liked them.
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Old 2009-05-30, 23:16   Link #499
Nobodyman9
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Yeah, scribbled those two snippets in less than half an hour while waiting for my parents to be ready for a dinner outside. I intended for them to be snippets, as I should be writing my resume instead.

Just glad that you guys liked them.
Hey that's cool buddy. Nothing wrong with writing little fanfic snippets. It was quite enjoyable. Anyway, sky had this to say.

Quote:
Btw, someone in LJ told me, that the last edition of ZR will get narrated from Shirley, Rolo and Nunally, certain events that concerned them.
So what does everyone think of this? Granted it's not 100% confirmed and it may just be a rumor, but lets assume it does happen. I'd love to see some Shirley narration, naturally, but I wonder what she would narrate about and which event would concern her.
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Old 2009-05-30, 23:32   Link #500
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Fumiko-san does have a good narrative voice, so it is cool if the narration thingy is true.
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