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Old 2009-10-07, 11:51   Link #1101
Lolipopo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
fine then
i still think that the question of whether or not shierly deserves lelouch the most is up for debate
since there are no clear criteria by which one measures such a thing
I just didn't think that C.C deserved him more based on the protection theme when you take her motives into concern
Oh Please, the point is, there is NO debate over that. If we start measuring "who deserved more" and stuff like this, this is ridiculous on it's own standard. There is no deserving on not, it is just love. Someone loves another, they either love them back or not. Deserving or not, is not up for love-debate. Deserving-concept, goes when someone did a crime. The punishment-deserve.

Deserving in love, is like, one of the most shallow things. Like, "I did thing A and B, you just did thing a, ZOMG YOU DO NOT DESERVE HIM!" Yeah ok, sure.
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Old 2009-10-07, 17:03   Link #1102
Nobodyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
fine then
i still think that the question of whether or not shierly deserves lelouch the most is up for debate
since there are no clear criteria by which one measures such a thing
i just didnt think that C.C deserved him more based on the protection theme when you take her motives into concern
I'm gonna have to go with Loli on this, that it would be very hard, if not futiel, to debate something as abstract and undefinable as deservedness, especially for love. It's basically apples and oranges. It's all very vague and dependent on circumstances and personal preference. Take this for example:

Say there's a supplier and he has cupcake. Now there are three people he could possibly give this cupcake to.

One is an investor who has regualarly contributed large sums of money to his estate and through those contributions he has managed to uphold his estate. The man and the investor have a very formal and impersonal relationship. The investor is not really hungry at all.

The second is a service provider who has helped maintain the man's estate for many years. The two have a very friendly and personal relationship and the service provider is very loyal to him. The service provider is only moderately hungry.

The third is a very unfortunate man who, from sort of circumstances, has gone without food for days. The unfortunate man has done no work and contributed nothing to the man, nor does the man know him. Needless to say, the unfortunate man is very hungry.

So who deserves the cupcake most?

Again, I don't think there really is a definite correct answer, it all depends on your beliefs and personal preference. And this is just a simplified problem. There are so many variables that could take place in a real-life situation, and again, it all depends on personal preference.

Please keep in mind this example isn't meant to exactly replicate the situation with Lelouch, C.C., Kallen and Shirley (though there are some canny, but not absolute resemblances)

Anyway, for the protection theme...well, I know C.C. wasn't exactly the most noble character, but I don't think she was horribly malicious either. I don't think she had Lelouch's best interests in mind more than Shirley though. So on that I'll pretty much agree with you blade.

As far as Shirley goes, I don't know if she deserved Lelouch more than C.C., Kallen, or anyone else, but I think she deserved more than what she got. I mean, C.C. and Kallen were given new reasons and desires to live thanks to Lelouch, and what did Shirley get? "Yeah, hope you enjoyed this life of yours that was cut so tragically short. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
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Old 2009-10-07, 20:12   Link #1103
yezhanquan
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To go a little off-topic, here's another snippet of that fic of mine with a "revived" Shirley.

Spoiler for writing:
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Old 2009-10-07, 22:23   Link #1104
Nobodyman9
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Hmm, you know it took me a minute to remember which fanfic you had written or if I had even read it, but then I realized it was the Shirley-cyborg one (gosh, it's been so long). Anywho, I thought it was pretty good. The prose was nicely written and constructed and all that. I have one or two minor complaints, mainly the part about Shirley calling her mother "Mama." It seems kind of...I don't know...southern valley-ish. I think "Mom" probably would've worked better. Also, the whole crowd ganging up on the molester with the ladies nodding their heads and men cracking their knuckles seemed kind of cartoon-ish. But otherwise great job.
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Old 2009-10-07, 22:29   Link #1105
Rising Dragon
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... if cyborg!Shirley's hanging around Emperor Lelouch, then shouldn't she already know the well-being of Suzaku and Arthur? Its Nina and Kallen she wouldn't know about, unless this takes place after Lelouch and Suzaku pulled their stunt on democracy at the UFN meeting...
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Old 2009-10-08, 01:32   Link #1106
yezhanquan
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Hmm, you know it took me a minute to remember which fanfic you had written or if I had even read it, but then I realized it was the Shirley-cyborg one (gosh, it's been so long). Anywho, I thought it was pretty good. The prose was nicely written and constructed and all that. I have one or two minor complaints, mainly the part about Shirley calling her mother "Mama." It seems kind of...I don't know...southern valley-ish. I think "Mom" probably would've worked better. Also, the whole crowd ganging up on the molester with the ladies nodding their heads and men cracking their knuckles seemed kind of cartoon-ish. But otherwise great job.
Edited both parts. Makes sense, these points. Gentlemen do wear ties, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
... if cyborg!Shirley's hanging around Emperor Lelouch, then shouldn't she already know the well-being of Suzaku and Arthur? Its Nina and Kallen she wouldn't know about, unless this takes place after Lelouch and Suzaku pulled their stunt on democracy at the UFN meeting...
I wrote the fic with the idea that Lelouch kept her revival from everyone, apart from the team in charge of her, Shirley's mother, and Orange-sama.
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Old 2009-10-08, 02:24   Link #1107
Rising Dragon
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Ah, I see. That makes sense. Even so, I think at least Suzaku would be aware of her renewed existence. She is the reason why the two even bothered to reconcile at the Sword of Akasha.
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Old 2009-10-08, 02:33   Link #1108
yezhanquan
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Lelouch can be a bastard sometimes, so I wrote this as a secret he intends to keep, for now at least. Maybe, he will reveal it. Maybe, he will not. But, I'm sure he'll anticipate that come Zero Requiem, Shirley would want to find out who this replacement Zero is, and then realise that for the rest of their lives, Suzaku and her have to live in the shadows. At least, there is someone who can even begin to understand what he (Suzaku) would be going through.
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Old 2009-10-08, 02:49   Link #1109
Rising Dragon
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Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, that idea sounds pretty damn good to me.
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Old 2009-10-08, 02:57   Link #1110
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
You know that C.C is not my cup of tea at all, but I am loling with your hypocrisy. Because, a while ago, you just called out someone in Kallen thread, that did the same thing you doing now when it comes to C.C. Examining epidemically and only choose what you want to see.

It is like, I start saying that Shirley wanted to shoot Lelouch only, and never really forgave him until she was dying, where she actually forgave him only because she was dying. Which would be bull. Certain persons on the show, had a theme accompanying them, and Shirley's was forgiveness. (so we will not get off-topic)

Anyway, I am done here. Getting out of this thread, feel free to be off-topic all you want.

p.s i used the protection-theme, to show how much bull the whole deserving-theory is btw, it was not really meant to count from the beginning.
Except that Shirley already forgave him. She even said those very words when conversing privately with Suzaku following the near-fall incident.
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:02   Link #1111
Meatrose
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Which was Loli's point...
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:04   Link #1112
yezhanquan
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Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, that idea sounds pretty damn good to me.
That would be after Zero Requiem. Hmmm...

Another chapter. This one takes place after that visit to Tokyo.

Spoiler for writing:
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:09   Link #1113
WhiteWings
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Shirley. There were no good reasons she turned into a sacrificial lamb.

She was in the way of the other girl's 'future' with Lelouch so she was knocked off.

She might have brough Lelouch more stability and acutally might have allowed Lelouch to become a bit more normal in his lifestyle. But Lelouch had to be filled with angst, he needed to be a basketcase or borderline psychotic, and he needed to be alone. So Shirley died.

I preferred Lelouch ending up with C.C. was Shirley died for no good reason for a main character.
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:19   Link #1114
azul120
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Originally Posted by Meatrose View Post
Which was Loli's point...
Loli seemed to be inferring that Shirley only forgave Lelouch in her dying moments though.
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:25   Link #1115
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Loli seemed to be inferring that Shirley only forgave Lelouch in her dying moments though.
Loli was arguing that one can not pick and choose the parts about a character one wants to pay attention to and disregard the rest. Everything has to be taken into consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
It is like, I start saying that Shirley wanted to shoot Lelouch only, and never really forgave him until she was dying, where she actually forgave him only because she was dying. Which would be bull. Certain persons on the show, had a theme accompanying them, and Shirley's was forgiveness.
What she meant was that if you only choose to see what you want to see you can easily turn a character into something he or she is not.

Edit: Loli, feel free to slap me around if you feel that I'm putting words in your mouth. =P
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Old 2009-10-08, 03:53   Link #1116
azul120
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Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.
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Old 2009-10-08, 04:02   Link #1117
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.
No worries, everyone misses a few words every now and then. I just thought I should point out that you were actually in agreement. =)
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:19   Link #1118
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.
Ha ha, don't worry about it azul. I actually made the same mistake initially, but then I went back and re-read it.

@Whitewing: I'm inclined to agree with you about the fact that Shirley died for pretty much no good reason. However, I don't agree that she was killed off to make way for the other girls' "future" with Lelouch. I hardly think the writers would do something that shallow and calloused (...ah who am I kidding? This is Sunrise we're talking about ) And it's not like the other girls had a future with Lelouch anyway, so there would be no point.

@yezhanquan: Another great chapter. Keep it coming
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Old 2009-10-08, 18:46   Link #1119
yezhanquan
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For me, it was about time I set a time line for my fic.
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Old 2009-10-09, 01:20   Link #1120
Nobodyman9
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For me, it was about time I set a time line for my fic.
Ha ha, I know what you mean. I wish I had a better schedule and more time to work on my fanfic. Anywho, speaking of which, and since we're sharing our fanfics anyway, I thought I'd post a preview of the next chapter of my Code Geass: A World Abandoned fanfic. Keep in mind though that this isn't a complete and final version. This is just a rought draft that has yet to be revised and it's not the full chapter, just a segment. Enjoy.

Spoiler for size:
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