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Old 2009-05-14, 09:38   Link #61
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I think it does not matter if your parents are ninja or ordinary people when they die, you have the same emotional impact when you're just a kid. Kakashi didn't kill, it was Itachi. But remember what happened: Kakashi was the cause of Obito's death, and that had a serious impact on him, some even say that this feeling of guilt is that granted Kakashi the MS eye.
It actually does matter. For one, you know that your parent is fighting, so you can accept the death if it happens. Yeah it may take longer at earlier age, but at the end, you should have the mind to accept that. When an ordinary parent dies because of some other villages' war games, you do not need to have that kind of acceptance. When there is a piece in your mind that feeds you logic and common sense about the death, then the difference automatically appears. That is why Kakashi and Nagato should feel differently about the deaths of their parents.

Secondly, Obito's dead is not in Kakashi's hands. Considering Kakashi's sense of responsibility, he feels responsibility for anything that appears around him (I think the same happened when he could not do anything about the fight between Sasuke and Naruto, two of his students). What you can compare to the way Obito died (if he did so) was if Yahiko would have died fighting Hanzou, and protecting one during the fight. Nothing like that happened. It was a sudden unexpected death. On the other hand, when Kakashi and Obito were trying to rescue Rin, I am sure Kakashi had the possibilities calculated in his head, and the possibility of a failure was already there, which can be considered as a trigger of sense and logic.

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I think this sort of things can never be accepted. To have to kill your parents with your own hands has much more emotional impact than just watching how they are killed by some random ninja.
No I don't think that is always the case. You are trying to compare two different personalities under the same characterization, but that is not correct. People have different personalities. And Itachi's character and sense of responsibility, or whatever you can call it, allowed him to kill his closest ones without losing himself. He was already aware of what he will be doing, and so he was ready for the consequences of his actions. He volunteered for and completed that mission willingfully, so he did it using his common sense and logic. And, even if there would be emotional impact, he was ready for it, and the punishments coming after. He has a mind ready, that is why he was able to suppress whatever the impact that would have on him. So, at the end, visibly, what you can get out of him would be no or not much emotional impact (he did cry, so write one for the score).

The best you can do to compare Itachi and Nagato would be their missions and and a mind accepting their missions. Itachi for the Uchiha clan, and Nagato for the world.

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The talk is all about pain and hatred, i don't see why we shouldn't compare the characters based on that, since most of them had a tragic past but it didn't make all of them mass murderers like Nagato. To me it seems that Nagato is telling his story to Naruto in order to justify what he is doing. As if he had a much worse fate than the big nations had, but it's not true, i just took two examples (Kakashi and Itachi) to show that belonging to a great ninja village can bring even worse fate.
Of course Nagato is telling his story to justify his actions, to say that this is my answer to all my and other people's sufferings. He was a member of a country that was raped over and over again by the three big countries even though his country was not a part of those wars. And at the end he was also betrayed by his country, which received exterior help from those countries raping his own. I don't think you can find a lot of comparable examples. Scenarios will be different, and the way people approaching the problem based on their goals and capabilities will be different. This is his answer.
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Old 2009-05-14, 12:29   Link #62
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You know, if Naruto had a sense of humor he would kill Konan, poke Nagato's eyes out and say How's that for an answer biaatch!
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Old 2009-05-14, 12:44   Link #63
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Its all matter of perspective. In anyone's perspective, people will think Nagato's lost is not all that compared to other ninjas' story. However, in Nagato's perspective, they all matter.

Those people he lost are almost his everything. His parents are the only people in that time that he looks up to. Their place is destroyed by war and people just keeps to their own family. Nagato losing the only family he had that time is very painful; he just not only lost his parent, he also lost his only sanctuary in that war torn place. Then he also lost Yahiko, who he considered as very important person in his life. Not only did Yahiko made him realized what he wanted to be, he also gives Nagato strength and hope. Yahiko's like a friend/mentor/idol/god/brother/father/whatever figure that Nagato looked up to. And losing that guy all at once, its just too much to bear....

Then there's the fact he had the power and destiny placed upon him. After he realized his powers, I bet he felt something that he could have done this and that to save his parents. He killed the shinobis; why didn't he realize his power before, enough to save his parents? Then there's Yahiko incident. He already realized his answers to Jiraiya, made his decision, trained to be the shinobi that will live to protect his friends. Then what happened? He couldn't even decide how to save Konan. He couldn't do a thing to stop Yahiko killing himself. What kind of a man of destiny is he if he can't even protect those people he cares about? What is the value of his power?

Last edited by kakakka; 2009-05-14 at 13:21.
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Old 2009-05-14, 13:48   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Of course Nagato is telling his story to justify his actions, to say that this is my answer to all my and other people's sufferings. .
Thats is true, at the end Negato just couldn’t handle that he lived in a world in war, which everything "bad" that happened to him was collateral, his plan or revenge at the world is just a sorry excuse for getting even at what happened to him.
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Old 2009-05-14, 13:56   Link #65
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where are those glittering fingers at..
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Old 2009-05-14, 20:03   Link #66
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^ what he said...
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Old 2009-05-14, 20:15   Link #67
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^The full raw is out. The statue does look extraordinarily similar to the Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin, and it does directly connect to Nagato via black rods. As Nagato is connected, his body slowly becomes dilapidated and emaciated to the point were he looks like he does presently. The attack that the statue uses, though, is vastly similar to the so-called "King of Hell" technique that Naraka Pain uses but it is very different from the Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin technique used to absorb the Bijuu's chakra.

Additionally, Hanzou doesn't use a simple Katon technique to destroy Nagato's legs, rather he used some sort of Doton technique combined with large amounts of Explosive Seals. It was fast and brutal.

Sadly enough, the quality of the raw is so bad, much of the dialogue is hard to make out. But, we should expect a cleaner raw and possibly a full translation by midnight (EST) tonight.

edit: Nagato does use Shinra Tensei to repel a massive kunai attack. So, the technique is truly a Rinnegan technique

Last edited by james0246; 2009-05-14 at 20:26.
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Old 2009-05-14, 20:25   Link #68
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Wow. After seeing most of the posts here can it be said that Danzou is perhaps the most abhored character in Naruto? The vilest heroes like Oro and Pain get respect and a fanbase but you guys just want Danzou dead. I mean, damn, people.
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Old 2009-05-14, 22:36   Link #69
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Is it just me or is the present Pein seem incredibly weaker than his former self. Or that's kind of the impression I got from his flashback this chapter. Pein is awesome now, but the Pein in the flashback was just wicked, more to my liking!
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:06   Link #70
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Great chapter. I'm really REALLY pleased that Naruto chose to take the high road. He's matured a lot. I also think he's carrying on Jiraiya's dream in a manner befitting his will of fire.
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:18   Link #71
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we still dont know how he met with madara, also did danzon die from that snake or ran away?
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:22   Link #72
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Must...supress...grammer nazi....3 names.....all in 1 page....

I've done it, I've overcome my hatred!
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:23   Link #73
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OH, OH, Nagato's summon...



I thought Nagato's summon looked familiar, then I remembered it looked a lot like the Aeon Anima from Final Fantasy X...Further digging into my memory, I also reminded myself that Anima's special attack was called "Pain"...

BLOW IT OUT OF THE BACK OF YOUR F-ING MIND

A certain someone is either making a very sneaky video game reference, or is lacking some originality in character design...
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:31   Link #74
filthydani
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Must...supress...grammer nazi....3 names.....all in 1 page....

I've done it, I've overcome my hatred!
do you actually consider miss-spelling Japanese names a grammatical error?
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Old 2009-05-15, 03:37   Link #75
Alchemist007
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Misspelling = grammar error? Yes. Romanization of names has variations but the line is drawn at complete mispronunciations.
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Old 2009-05-15, 05:22   Link #76
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Anyhow...Really interesting chapter, finally got to see why Pain had a detrimental physical condition. Those stakes really did suck out his life force in exchange for that massive power. I am guessing that power he used on the ninjas, to save Yahiko, were somehow discovered along the way through battle experiences, until he found out that he could use vessels in order to divide these powers equally.
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Old 2009-05-15, 05:36   Link #77
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Good chapter Hanzou is badass, Kid Nagato was badass and crazy looking. That statue was alot similar to the one that is used to seal Bijuu, just younger, and the attack it uses looks just like the Dragon sealing jutsu, the only difference was that it was just one Dragon, instead of Nine Dragons.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-05-15 at 05:46.
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Old 2009-05-15, 06:25   Link #78
jho
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lol naruto turned guren lagann on us
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Old 2009-05-15, 06:27   Link #79
El_Negro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07 View Post
Wow. After seeing most of the posts here can it be said that Danzou is perhaps the most abhored character in Naruto? The vilest heroes like Oro and Pain get respect and a fanbase but you guys just want Danzou dead. I mean, damn, people.
What do you expect!?

When some-one is responsible for ordering a genocide, sparking fuels that erupts into wars all for the sake of dominion and being a traitorous political s.o.b. that person seems alot less likable.
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Old 2009-05-15, 06:47   Link #80
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Best chapter in weeks (so far)! The spoilers were pretty accurate.

I understand Nagato's sentiments but it I don't believe that his actions can be justified by all the pain he experienced. But then again people react to pain and tragedy differently. In his case, revenge is his way of coping. I couldn't judge him for that.
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